View Full Version : loyalist/traitor marines

08-04-2008, 22:58
Of all the legions that sided with Horus during the heresy, was there not marines who didn't want to turn against the emperor?

I realize that they may have been outnumbered and gunned down but that couldn't have happened to all of them. Were some absorbed into other chapters or were they killed jsut because the rest of their legion sided with Horus?

Marius Xerxes
08-04-2008, 23:10
I guess we will find out. Death Guard units escaped to Earth to tell the Emperor what happened.. so something happened to them.

08-04-2008, 23:13
Disn't Garro become one of the founding members of the Inquisition?

Marius Xerxes
08-04-2008, 23:18
Im not exactly sure, though I do recall they had a special job for him a the end of the book and people speculated he was either going to form the Grey Knights or Inquisition.

Chaplain of Chaos
08-04-2008, 23:28
They did eliminate loyalists, on Isstvaan III. The World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperors Children and Sons of Horus killed them all there.

We can only assume that the Word Bearers had quitly subverted their entire legion through the lodges by the time open rebellion came.

Considering how slighted the Iron Warriors felt they could have actually had very few Marines who resisted turning (especially if Horus continually fed them lies about how little they where valued by the Emperor)

The Alpha Legion was unified around Alpharius above and beyond the Emperor, any who would have resisted probably had quite innocent accidents.

Marius Xerxes
08-04-2008, 23:30
So it seems just the Death Guard have persons who escaped total persecution. Garo and his lot made it to safety.

Chaplain of Chaos
08-04-2008, 23:32
Many Death Guard died on Isstvaan III when Horus Virus Bombed them.

The Eisenstein was the only ship that completely rebelled though.

Marius Xerxes
08-04-2008, 23:39
Unless some author in one of the new books introduces some new characters (or old) that survived, Garo and the rest on the Eienstein are going to be the only Loyalists from the "Traitor" Legions that survived their parent Legions house cleaning id say. Though after reading Legion.. ones idea on that might be differant.

I still stick with the Garo and his group idea though. I could see in a future book, seeing his Character make some kind of return.

08-04-2008, 23:41
Read the Horus Heresy books, particularly Galaxy in Flames and Flight of the Eisenstein. Or, if you don't want to read a book to find out, let us know, and someone can provide a summary of what happened to loyalist members of the Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperors Children and Death Guard at Isstvan III. Perhaps you mean, what of stubborn loyalists in the Legions who showed their treachery at Isstvan V: the Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers and Alpha Legion? To that, we don't know. It does seem unlikely that the traitor Legions turned, to a man, simply at the orders of their Primarchs, but we can perhaps infer from established background the relative likelihood of there being opposition within those Legions to following Horus in rebellion against the Emperor:
The Word Bearers- Seem to have embraced Chaos as a Legion before even Horus was approached by Erebus. After their censure by the Emperor for deifying Him, and their subsequent dedication to Chaos, any remaining Emperor-lovers were probably wiped out long before the Heresy.
The Night Lords- Said to have been a Legion of unscrupulous criminals, psychos and sociopaths, and condemned for their methods by the Emperor even before Horus's corruption and rebellion, they probably all followed their Primarch Kurze in denouncing the Emperor as a coward and hypocrite, again, before the Heresy began.
The Iron Warriors- Were brutalized and demoralized by the campaigns they had been forced to fight, probably shared Perturabo's resentment of the Emperor and followed him willingly to Horus's side.
The Alpha Legion- Given the revelations of 'Legion' in the Horus Heresy series, which I will not spoil here as the OP doesn't seem to have read the early HH books never mind the latest, the Alpha Legion's motives and unity of purpose in siding with Horus are unclear..
Well, i realise that doesn't offer much apart from 'yeah, the vast majority of them went for it either for the same reasons as their Primarchs supposedly did, or out of unthinking loyalty to their brothers and Primarch over the distant Emperor, and the tiny minority who opposed it were indeed very much killed', but hopefully it gives some canonical basis for supposing that really very few Marines of the Traitor Legions opposed the Heresy and they were simply killed. As to whether some were absorbed into other Chapters, there has been much discussion of such an idea on Warseer, some of it concerning the origin of the Grey Knights, but all i can say about that is use the Search..
Hope that helps, peace.
Edit: Aaaaand most of what i say has been said, while i was typing it, and having to bloody well re-log-in AGAIN to post. Warseer, stop making me log-in over and over, it ******* with my chi..

08-04-2008, 23:55
Edit: Aaaaand most of what i say has been said, while i was typing it, and having to bloody well re-log-in AGAIN to post. Warseer, stop making me log-in over and over, it ******* with my chi..

Click the "remember me" box.

09-04-2008, 00:08
I have read two of the HH books, horus rising and descent of angels, i'm starting to read Flight of the Eisenstein.(i need to buy the two books in between)

I was just curious what other people's opinions were.

09-04-2008, 00:25
Dude, why not read them in order..?
Cheers Outsider, excellent suggestion.

Marius Xerxes
09-04-2008, 00:39
I have read two of the HH books, horus rising and descent of angels, i'm starting to read Flight of the Eisenstein.(i need to buy the two books in between)

I was just curious what other people's opinions were.

Reading Decent of Angels out of order wont hurt much, if at all. Personally I would have been ok with having never read it.

But you must read the first 3 in order before you contonue on after. Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxey in Flames. The read Flight of the Eienstien, Fulgrim and finially Legion.

Reading Flight of the Eisenstien, your going to get insights that might spoil what happens in False Gods and Galaxey in Flames.

09-04-2008, 04:04
The first 4 are the ones you should read in order. Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, and Flight of the Eisenstein, as those are all one main story arc. Fulgrim ties into that as well, and probably should be read after Flight of the Eisenstein.

Legion and Descent of Angels are unrelated to that original arc and can be read stand alone.

Chainsworded Codpiece
09-04-2008, 17:35
Garro notes, and forgive me for throwing out a semi-spoiler, that
many of his Legion seem keyed-in to the idea of taking their Primarch and Horus at their word, regardless of what that "word" may be. Garro is surprised that very few of the Death Guard seem able to engage critical thinking skills where Mortarion (or Horus) is the focus. The way he describes it, it's as if many of those "new breed" from Barbarus are unable to counter any thinking/rationale put forth by Mortarion.

Similarly, everyone who goes near/speaks to Horus when Horus is paying attention to them, seems unable to NOT utterly love him and believe everything he says.

Psychic aura on the part of Horus. That one's a no-brainer. But did the Primarchs put some sort of EXTRA "back-door" hypnocoding into the Indoctrination rituals for the "new" Astartes in the Legions? Basically, an inability for the troops to think counter to the approved groupthink? It seems that way for the Death Guard...

EDIT: Apropos of nothing- the original Realm of Chaos fluff had 70 Loyalist breakaway Marines on the Eisenstein, but they were varying numbers from the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons, and the Death Guard. That's right, in the original fluff, more of the Big Four had Loyalists that survived (well, for a while-it's never detailed what occured to them after they made it to Earth).

10-04-2008, 06:08
also on page 43 of the last chaos codex

it says "during the Horus Heresy most of the chaplains of the traitor legions resisted the taint of chaos and were murdered by their brethren" so it can be assumed that all others who resisted were murdered too. and the Horus Heresy books really build on that idea too.

I can't speak for 30K but in 40K if a chapter turns the Inquisition will kill everyone who survived and didn't turn (at least thats how it seems). however the emporer may be nicer and more understanding

Son of Sanguinius
10-04-2008, 06:20
I would assume that the few surviving loyalists from the traitor legions were given special assignments until they died and their gene-seed along with them.

They probably took up personal crusades against their former fellow legionnaires until a bolt or demon weapon found them.

It ties up loose ends for the Imperium and gives the loyalists the chance at noble death and vengeance they more than likely craved.

10-04-2008, 09:47
Aren't Garro and the survivors of the Eisenstein currently 'guests' in the Sisters of Silence fortress on Luna, having been refused access to Terra? The same Luna that Horus IIRC stomps as a staging ground for invading Earth? It seems the fates are not smiling upon Garro and co's chances of survival...

12-04-2008, 01:05
I remember something from 2nd ed that said Garro and co were waiting for an audience with the emperor when he acended the throne, and that they never got to see him... Don't know how true that is nowadays, but it hold with biggreengribbly's thoughts...

On Istvaan Angron lead 50000 World Eaters to destroy the loyalist elements of the traitor legions.