PDA

View Full Version : Orcs and Spears, is there an point?



Gralph!?!
09-04-2008, 00:21
now, i have been routing around my old bitz drawers (the drawers in my desk) and found my old unit of orc boys with spears. now i was thinking of repainting them for continued service in the pillaging and general out right crapness that my army often leads to.

now they have spears and shields but is there any point in using the spears over the 2 choppas or even then choppa and shield?

i am unsure since on the plus side it makes it harder for my opponants to reduce the attacks from the unit but i will always be at strength 3 which will not really be helpful since i would effectivily be the same as goblins in combat. (assuming i was charge by the way)

while the choppa and shield i get a 4+ save in combat as well as being strength 4 so i can save some of the ladz as well as be able to cause a fair amount of damage.

now which is the better option?

Urgat
09-04-2008, 00:27
Choppa all the way. With choppas, you get more chance to wound even if charging, and since it gets the handweapon+shield bonus (+2save instead of +1), they will also be much more resilient. Spears justa aren't good enough.
Besides, imho, spears are so "not orc"... I mean, orcs fighting from behind with pointy sticks?

Crazy Harborc
09-04-2008, 00:43
I agree......choppas allll the way. LARGE, wide units of the basic boys. Then lots of BOs...but that is what I enjoy, what works for me......most of the time.;)

corvo
09-04-2008, 03:42
Choppa's.

It isn't too much of a question, unless you are fighting high elves with great weapons. Then str3 against t3 with an average armour save isn't too bad, and you are likely to lose a lot from your front rank thanks to their great weapons. This is the only time I can think of where spears might be handy.

Cragspyder
09-04-2008, 03:53
Apparently it is choppas all the way... though can't Savage Orcs take spears and have effectively 4 S3 attacks per model when charged in the front? (2 for each in the back rank too).

EDIT: THIS IS SPARTA'S POST!

Felworth
09-04-2008, 04:05
Apparently it is choppas all the way... though can't Savage Orcs take spears and have effectively 4 S3 attacks per model when charged in the front? (2 for each in the back rank too).

EDIT: THIS IS SPARTA'S POST!


Dunno quite about that but being frenzied and all the Savages have a tendency to charge over being charged which sorta nixes the use of spears.

Additional hand weapon while frenzied though? 3 strength 4 attacks per model? Waaagh yeah to dat!


Anyway, choppas all the way.

505
09-04-2008, 04:15
I throw in three or four spears in my unit for every 20 boyz just to make it look like a unruly mob of Boyz

Luckywallace
09-04-2008, 07:29
My orc units have choppas and shields or else 2 choppas. I only use spears for odd models for variety.

However, I think spears could be useful against certain enemies like undead where you are unlikely to win in the first combat and need to grind them down, needing as many attacks as possible.

Choppas are awesome, but spears are not totally useless.

Cortomaltese
09-04-2008, 11:18
in games simply take 2 choppas (savage MUST have this!) or at least choppa+shield..
modelling orcs add spears to make units look messy: for example i converted about 20 old plastic archers (from old starter box set) as spear-boyz because it was much easy to sculpt spears then choppas with green stuff..

junglesnake
09-04-2008, 11:47
Remember that choppas are only +1 strength for the first round. And that is if you are not charged.

Spears give you two ranks no matter what. So while not the most assulty of units they do have a role to play.

My unit of 20 which I have had since the last edition, form part of my Zulu tactic army. They are in the centre of the bulls horns just behind the gobbos - prodding them forward into the enemy!

truthsayer
09-04-2008, 12:02
Check out my painting log below and have a look at my Spart'Uns!

Big Uns with spears! throw in a Black Orc and yer away!

all those s4 attacks must be good for summat, also give them the banner of +1 attack.

Urgat
09-04-2008, 12:42
Remember that choppas are only +1 strength for the first round. And that is if you are not charged.
No, you get the bonus even if charged, such is the wonder of the new choppas, you get +1S in the first round of each combat (O&G armybook, p18).
On the other hand, you don't get to fight with spears in the 1st round if you charge :)

warlord hack'a
09-04-2008, 12:53
i field my svg boyz with choppa and spears. when charged I usually opt for the spears, when charging I usually use the choppa. Adding spears gives flexibility to the unit and also makes enemy think twice about charging you.

I also field a small force of 10 svg orcs with additional choppa plus a boss. that is 4 ws4 S5 and 12 ws 3 S4 attacks on a 5 wide frontage, tends to hurt the enemy a lot..

junglesnake
09-04-2008, 12:55
No, you get the bonus even if charged, such is the wonder of the new choppas, you get +1S in the first round of each combat (O&G armybook, p18).
On the other hand, you don't get to fight with spears in the 1st round if you charge :)

Sorry - I didn't make that clear. If you get charged the chances are the enemy will kill your choppa armed boyz before they get to strike. Then you have lost the strength bonus.

With spears you don't get the strength bonus but a higher chance of having something left to hit back with. Hence the reason why I say it is a better defensive unit.

Urgat
09-04-2008, 14:28
Sorry - I didn't make that clear. If you get charged the chances are the enemy will kill your choppa armed boyz before they get to strike. Then you have lost the strength bonus.

With spears you don't get the strength bonus but a higher chance of having something left to hit back with. Hence the reason why I say it is a better defensive unit.

ah, ok. But with shields and choppas, you get a much higher chance of survival (4+ save if unmodified, it's not bad at all), and what you would not gain in killing enemy minis with the spears, you gain by denying kills to the enemy. And it's better since your numbers are higher in the end. For the same reason, I tend to give swords to my common goblins, but spears to my night gobs (at best, a 5+ save on night gobs, it's really not as good, from my experience).

Fraggzy
09-04-2008, 14:50
With spears you don't get the strength bonus but a higher chance of having something left to hit back with. Hence the reason why I say it is a better defensive unit.

defencive unit?? are you suposed to be an orc or what? orc's dont defend, they attack!! WAAGH!

annyway i use chopa's and shield's for my normal orc's
and as far as it concerns goblins, i give them spears so atleast they have a chance to stab and kill some one:D

Mad Doc Grotsnik
09-04-2008, 16:03
Go with the Spears Gralph!

Do it, you know it makes tactical sense. You Boyz get easier to kill and weedier in a fight, but at least there are more of them fighting!

What? What do you mean 'ulterior motive' I don't know what your on about.

woytek
09-04-2008, 16:18
Topic highjack:

When do you guys field orcs with additional choppa's, and when are they fielded with choppa/shield? I have to glue some orcs soon and I am still in doubt.

jpf1982
09-04-2008, 16:23
It depends heavily on your preference. They give orcs the whaag special ability so that we can get into hand to hand faster. Use this and 2 handed choppa’s. I field my orcs in ranks of 6 that way when hitting a unit that is on 20mm bases 5 wide I get all the attacks and hitting units of 5 at 25mm bases I still get all my attacks. With a 6 frontage and command on a charge your talking 13 WS 3 S4 attacks. If that don’t kill something I don’t know what will. You should smash apart a front rank and now they have to worry about having spears to attack you back with; and lord help if you have a character in your unit or if their biguns because now your getting WS 4 S5 attacks and if you got a character who knows what your going to do to them. I say choppas!

Besides... It's orcier in my opinion. :)

Avian
09-04-2008, 16:26
With spears you don't get the strength bonus but a higher chance of having something left to hit back with. Hence the reason why I say it is a better defensive unit.
Actually it's more of a toss-up, since models with spears die quicker and also cost more (hence you get fewer of them).

Spears are, sadly, almost (but not completely) useless. When facing soft targets that are going to hang around for a while anyway, it might be better to use spears than choppas and shields. My Boyz ran into a small unit of Slayers a little while ago, for example, and without spears it would have taken ages to get rid of even that tiny little unit.
Mostly, though, my spear unit (I tend to field it, mostly because I only have three blocks of Boyz) choose to use choppas and shields.




When do you guys field orcs with additional choppa's, and when are they fielded with choppa/shield? I have to glue some orcs soon and I am still in doubt.
Two choppas are best against foes that don't fight well and aren't going to kill a lot of Orcs, while choppas and shields are better against somewhat better fighters, especially if they are joined by a character, in which case few regular Orcs are going to fight anyway.

I also have a "detachment" of ten Orcs with two choppas and a musician which have proved to be surprisingly useful in my games this season. Who says Boyz need to come in big blocks? :)

Pacific
09-04-2008, 16:44
I would go with what has been mentioned above. Mix up the models to create an impression of orciness (a rabble who use any weapons that they chose). That also has the advantage of creating some ambiguity as to what you unit actually carries, meaning that if for some reason you ever want to use spears (they add +1 str in 8th edition for example^^ ) then you dont have to paint up another unit again!

Lordsaradain
09-04-2008, 16:47
How about giving spears to your big 'uns? Combined with Nogg's Banner of Butchery, I think it could turn out pretty nasty. :P

Avian
09-04-2008, 17:06
It is also very expensive, but I must admit I like the flexibilty it gives. I have used it a couple of times and it has surprised some opponents when my spear-orcs charge and use their magic banner to have two S5 attacks each. :D

So effective is it, in fact, that I don't think the unit has ever used their spears...

Gralph!?!
09-04-2008, 19:19
hmmm... i suppose i shall continuie re paining them anyways since with a couple of the horrible foundation paints i can get them done reasonably fast. (yeah i do not like them a whole lot, they clash with my painting style) so i am painting up the spears and single choppa lads, so tommorrow i should have a fairly amusing army of orcs instead of some orcs leading gobbos and other weird critters.

i may have a unit of spears seing as they will then have the sae cost as my orcs with 2 choppas and they get better armour and the ability to give off more attacks after i am charged. besides i do not lose my choppas if i do take spears so i am till golden if i charge.

oh and grotsnik, i will be getting yet more bloody vengance tommorrow since i may be challenging you.