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2d6
09-04-2008, 12:32
In response to the whiny I can't adapt my tactics or change my army list thread thats ongoing, i thought it might be good to list the ways in which the new army list is worse than the old one....

No vampire lord, (new lord is equivalent to old count) They're still mean, but not as mean as they used to be. (I miss my 6 S6 attacks re-rolling misses strigoi lords)

Black coach dropping to US4, much less of a threat now, as it has to avoid most R&F, it is nasty when it powers up, but that can never be relied upon, and even when fully powered up it's still a gamble to hit a large block of R&F head on. Also it can no longer rack up the wounds, which also makes it more vulnerable to crumbling.

Raising new units is a lot worse than before, as only zombies can be raised and their stats have taken a major nerf, also range is dropped to 12 instead of 18.

Free IoN is nice, but assuming a caster takes IoN and Raise dead, (still 1 spell slot) they can do a lot less with it than they used to be able to do with the old IoN

Ranked ghouls are nice in some ways, but the loss of a cheap skirmishing unit removes some tactical flexibility.

Losing the awesome cursed book was bad.

Zombies have been massively nerfed and can be a liability if not used carefully. Losing the option to use Zombies as a cheap character bunker was also a hit.

This isn't intended to be a rant or complaint, I'm very happy with the new book overall, although mainly because I'd played the old one to death and was in need of some fresh material to make the game more interesting again.

Keep the list going, just try to avoid any boo-hoo whiny complaints...

_Lucian_
09-04-2008, 12:41
imagine the old cursed book and the helm of command. I can see why one had to go

==Me==
09-04-2008, 12:51
Good point, 2D6, the new VCs may look nasty on paper, but they are by no means overpowered and are actually quite balanced.

This is your standard, omg new army x iz overpowured!!!11!1one. Once people figure out how to play with and against the new VCs, it'll fade away and we can all enjoy a really great army book and models.

The Clairvoyant
09-04-2008, 13:00
Lets not forget the following either:

Necromancer Lords are gone
Necromancers are now level 1
Every bound item now has a chance of running out
The ring of the night (30pt 5+ ward save) is gone
Dire Wolves lost their S4 charge
Bat Swarms lost 1A and 1W (though they did get a pts drop and a US boost, but we'll gloss over that :D)
All of the lahmian powers are gone (except beguile which got a rules change)
Some of the other best bloodline powers of old are gone (Call Winds, Honour or Death, Massive Monstrosity)
All of the familiars are gone.


I'm not saying i don't like the new book cos i do - i love it. There has been so many changes and i think thats what is throwing people. Superficially, not much has changed, but digging deeper, a lot has changed, and mostly for the better.

senorcardgage
09-04-2008, 15:24
Good point, 2D6, the new VCs may look nasty on paper, but they are by no means overpowered and are actually quite balanced.

This is your standard, omg new army x iz overpowured!!!11!1one. Once people figure out how to play with and against the new VCs, it'll fade away and we can all enjoy a really great army book and models.

Wow, I really like your second quote (in your sig)... How true is that? :)

Jack of Blades
09-04-2008, 17:38
The point about Vampire Lords is just not true... they're a lot meaner than before. Now you can make him a lvl 3 non-Necrarch Wizard, which is a huge improvement in itself.

Then you mentioned that 6 S6 re-roll misses Strigoi lord? I'll just take a hero choice for that, then. Sword of Might, Book of Arkhan and Red Fury. Incase you're not satisfied I'll use a Lord: Sword of Might, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred and Dread Knight/Avatar of Death. You've got a 1/2+ AS, 5+ WS, Infinite Hatred, S6 and Red Fury with 40 points left for Magic Items (Rod of Flaming Death perhaps).

Of course if you really want to make him into a monster, give him a Power Stone, lvl 3, Forbidden Lore; Lore of Beasts/Fire. The rest is up to you.

I wouldn't be worried about the whining myself. Just the usual people that come here and whine.

2d6
09-04-2008, 23:26
The point about Vampire Lords is just not true... they're a lot meaner than before. Now you can make him a lvl 3 non-Necrarch Wizard, which is a huge improvement in itself.

Then you mentioned that 6 S6 re-roll misses Strigoi lord? I'll just take a hero choice for that, then. Sword of Might, Book of Arkhan and Red Fury. Incase you're not satisfied I'll use a Lord: Sword of Might, Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred and Dread Knight/Avatar of Death. You've got a 1/2+ AS, 5+ WS, Infinite Hatred, S6 and Red Fury with 40 points left for Magic Items (Rod of Flaming Death perhaps).


You could make the old vampire lords L3, nechrach could be L4

The strigoi wasn't the best example, due to lack of amour, I just used to really like mine..
An old Vampire lord, Blood dragon with Cursed book, heart piercing, master strike, mount, barding and additional hand weapon would tear that build a new one more times than not, the +3WS +1W Higher initiative and extra attack making all the difference, and about the same points too.

Again still not complaining, love the new book...

fubukii
10-04-2008, 00:17
u want a beastly combat vampire lord thatnothing in the old book could even compare too?

just take red fury and the dreadlance, 4 auto hits str 7 2s to wound, all wounds give you more str 7 attacks that auto hit easy 6-7 kills, what vampire could do that before? none.

Or how about a Awesome caster?
How about, master of the black arts, dark accoutyle, lord of the dead, with the skull staff and the bloody haub, a caster with armor and a ward

Or a good caster that can fight?
master of the black arts, bloody haub, dark acc, lord of the dead, sword of might, Book of arkan - 6 pd lvl 4 mage 4 str 6 attacks?

All of the above builds are better then what old vampires could do.

Spirit
10-04-2008, 02:53
You could make the old vampire lords L3, nechrach could be L4

The strigoi wasn't the best example, due to lack of amour, I just used to really like mine..
An old Vampire lord, Blood dragon with Cursed book, heart piercing, master strike, mount, barding and additional hand weapon would tear that build a new one more times than not, the +3WS +1W Higher initiative and extra attack making all the difference, and about the same points too.

Again still not complaining, love the new book...

Against a vampire on a flying mount, with dreadlance, red fury and... something

So you get the charge (20" move) get 4 autohits that wound on 2+, (3 wounds) 3 more attacks, 3 more hits, 2 more wounds. GG old lord. AND my one is level 3, yours is level 2. On top of this, the lord can fight a ranked up unit and win, every time, unless you roll 4 1's to wound. No other vampire lord could do this. And, if you REALLY want, you can make him re roll to wound if they fail a -3 LD test.


I'm sorry but i disagree with almost every point you made in your first post, having played with the vampires.

Zombies are not a liability 30T2 zombies is the same as 20t3 almost, except now you can make them WS6.

Lords are just as good if not better. Anything an old lord could do, a new one can do, but with more magic and/or combat comparatively

Invocation is MUCH better. The moment you use black or blood knights and raise a unit back you will see why. You have a lvl1 version (I.O.N) and a level 3 version (summon undead horde) and with a vampire power, you can guarantee having them both. Only they are both much better than they were before.

Ghouls: you lost a skirmishing unit, you can now raise fell bats back, have scouting vampires, ghouls don't flee, you have cairn wraiths, who needs a skirmishing unit when you have a varghulf?

I'm sorry but i just don't see how you can make these points valid. Just because they changed the rules does not make them "broke" it makes the differant from before, and they are equally as good.

2d6
10-04-2008, 10:39
Way to completely miss the point!!

Why so defensive, I'm not saying the new book isn't good, or that VC aren't
as good as they used to be, just highlighting small, individual points that in some way are lesser than their previous incarnation, and that still doesn't mean that they aren't or can't be as effective as before.

Fact, You used to be able to take vampire lords with a better statline than
currently. (this is not the same as saying that new vampires are less combat effective)
Fallacy, Where does this idea that old lords were only level 2 come from??
Old Vampire lords COULD BE LEVEL 3 (yes all of them, not nechrach only)!!!

I said new zombies "could" be a liability, now a unit of 20 is not always an effective tarpit against any halfway decent combat troops, and can effectively hand an opponent a longer charge move if positioned poorly, sure larger units is one way to go, but a new unit of 20 zombies needs more thought than and old unit of 20 zombies.

Sure Ion has some advantages over the old IoN, but you still can't raise a unit of 3d6 Skeletons 18" away behind your opponents line.

Note i said Cheap skirmishing unit about the ghouls, none of the alternatives you gave are cheap. 10 old ghouls for 80pts were easy to squeeze into any list, and provided excellent defense against flyers, useful skirmish screens against shooting and packed enough punch to take on most lightly armoured troops, the current list (while not being worse or weaker than the old list) does not give a unit that can fulfil the same role for 80pts

Read the post again CAREFULLY and you'll see I'm in favour of the new book,
and I specifically asked people not to post whiny responses....

Spirit
10-04-2008, 12:11
Way to completely miss the point!!

Why so defensive, I'm not saying the new book isn't good, or that VC aren't
as good as they used to be, just highlighting small, individual points that in some way are lesser than their previous incarnation, and that still doesn't mean that they aren't or can't be as effective as before.

I'm not trying to be defensive, you're saying these things are lesser, i think they are not lesser.



Fact, You used to be able to take vampire lords with a better statline than
currently. (this is not the same as saying that new vampires are less combat effective)
Fallacy, Where does this idea that old lords were only level 2 come from??
Old Vampire lords COULD BE LEVEL 3 (yes all of them, not nechrach only)!!!


Your example that i replied to was a blood dragon lords, blood dragon lords could not be level 3.



I said new zombies "could" be a liability, now a unit of 20 is not always an effective tarpit against any halfway decent combat troops, and can effectively hand an opponent a longer charge move if positioned poorly, sure larger units is one way to go, but a new unit of 20 zombies needs more thought than and old unit of 20 zombies.

you can have that one, but i only use units of 20 because i know i can raise 7 per casting on average. (which is the same as an old Lvl2 casting of I.O.N which was 7+ to cast, not 4+)



Sure Ion has some advantages over the old IoN, but you still can't raise a unit of 3d6 Skeletons 18" away behind your opponents line.

You can raise 5d6 zombies for +1 casting value though, and you can do it with +1 to cast if you want with an item.



Note i said Cheap skirmishing unit about the ghouls, none of the alternatives you gave are cheap. 10 old ghouls for 80pts were easy to squeeze into any list, and provided excellent defense against flyers, useful skirmish screens against shooting and packed enough punch to take on most lightly armoured troops, the current list (while not being worse or weaker than the old list) does not give a unit that can fulfil the same role for 80pts

I completely agree that they were useful and cheap before, but you now have other options, that while they may not be cheap, do a much better job. 10 ghouls may have deterred flyers, but a hellsteed vampire lord (which i have in my army for other reasons, not this one) will kill flyers. Again, you are saying the new book is lesser in these ways, i argue that it is simply differant.



Read the post again CAREFULLY and you'll see I'm in favor of the new book,
and I specifically asked people not to post whiny responses....

I know you'r in favor of the book, i'm not whining back, i just think that i'm allowed to say why your first arguments do not make the book lesser. I love the new book as well, i loved the old book, i just don't see alot in this book that are "lesser" as you put it. Im honestly not trying to whine, i'm just giving my side of the argument.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 12:28
The new book is far more forgiving and allows a much greater level of magic to be used without the need to sacrifice combat ability.
Plus the troops in general tend to hit a fair bit harder than they used to, as well as being more difficult to shift.

You are also more able to take more of the really nasty things due to how the new book is laid out compared to the old one.
You want wraiths in the old book?
Well your sacrificing magic...not so in the new book.

You need a new set of tactics to face them, while the current old setup of a bunch of uber vampires running around killing everything now gets a few really scary units to back them up as well as not crumbling like crazy when you do finally knock down the general.

warlord hack'a
10-04-2008, 12:55
one thing I thought up to counter the red fury+dreadlance+ flying vampire (or just on it's own) combo: how about a challenge? Red fury gives 1 extra attack for each unsaved wound caused right? Now when challenged by a unit champ the vamp will kill the champ but can only cause one wound (since the champ has only one wound), after that the champ is dead. So this will give the vamp perhaps one (1) additional attack, giving him a total CR of max +5, which is countered by the units outnumber, rank and standard.

Next round the vamp no longer has S7 and he becomes much more manageable unless he is fighting measly T3 no armour save enemies, in which case the whole unit is not worth half the points of this vampire lord..

by the way, I think these kinds of combinations are what makes the VC book very powerful, perhaps even too much so (but I have too little experience with them to judge that). There are just a load of interesting combination of vamp powers and magic items you can make that really enhance each other, so much so even that I wonder if the playtesters and game designers though them up before they released the book.

2d6
10-04-2008, 13:49
Your example that i replied to was a blood dragon lords, blood dragon lords could not be level 3.
They could be level 3, but had one less power dice.
They still got the 3 spells, and 2 dispel, and could cast with 4 dice.



You can raise 5d6 zombies for +1 casting value though, and you can do it with +1 to cast if you want with an item.
But for most purposes 3d6 skeletons are much better than 5d6 new zombies, and you could always choose to take the old spell, SUH needs a roll of 6.



I completely agree that they were useful and cheap before, but you now have other options, that while they may not be cheap, do a much better job. 10 ghouls may have deterred flyers, but a hellsteed vampire lord (which i have in my army for other reasons, not this one) will kill flyers. Again, you are saying the new book is lesser in these ways, i argue that it is simply differant.


I'm not saying that the new book is lesser on the whole, or that there aren't suitable replacements, but one possible option with a great deal of tactical flexibilty at a low cost has been lost.

Suppose they had changed zombies by only dropping T by 1 point, but made them 1 pt each.
The statement that new zombies are worse than the old is true in terms of raw statline, in one small aspect.
However it would still be evident that at 1 point each they would be a far far superior entry to the army list, Yes in many cases the new gains do far outweigh the old losses, but that doesn't mean that other small points or aspects may be in some way worse.



I know you'r in favor of the book, i'm not whining back, i just think that i'm allowed to say why your first arguments do not make the book lesser. I love the new book as well, i loved the old book, i just don't see alot in this book that are "lesser" as you put it. Im honestly not trying to whine, i'm just giving my side of the argument.

Ok, sorry about the whine accusation, not founded...

This thread was never intended to be a revolution, or a complaint, or a petition to change the world, merely a light hearted counter to the ever expanding breaking the game thread, the work broke in the title being a direct reference to that thread rather than an implication that anything in the new book is actually broke.

Congratulations for the clairvoyant for posting in the spirit of the thread...

Lordsaradain
10-04-2008, 13:56
Not being able to take wraiths as heroes.

Forcing banshees to come in units making them very expensive.

Removing the "mundane" bloodline powers, ie saying that your vampire was necrarch for example gave him +1 to cast but -WS at no cost.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
10-04-2008, 14:11
But notably improving Bumshees as well, lets not forget that.

They now affect anyone with a Leadership (previously anyone Immune to Psychology couldn't be killed) and of course, now they can stand and fire with the shriek, which is pretty potent in itself.

Add in that they now have a rock hard bodyguard, and it's quite an improvment, and worth the points in my opinion (stick them in a building, and then laugh at your opponents feeble attempts to winkle you out!)

Gazak Blacktoof
10-04-2008, 14:15
So what is the point of this thread then? If its not a complaint about the new book why title it "VC what they Broke"?

All you seem to be saying is things are different. Well that's quite a shock isn't it?

If you're trying to review the new army list (and the book over all) there are better ways to go about it.

Spirit
10-04-2008, 14:17
one thing I thought up to counter the red fury+dreadlance+ flying vampire (or just on it's own) combo: how about a challenge? Red fury gives 1 extra attack for each unsaved wound caused right? Now when challenged by a unit champ the vamp will kill the champ but can only cause one wound (since the champ has only one wound), after that the champ is dead. So this will give the vamp perhaps one (1) additional attack, giving him a total CR of max +5, which is countered by the units outnumber, rank and standard.

Next round the vamp no longer has S7 and he becomes much more manageable unless he is fighting measly T3 no armour save enemies, in which case the whole unit is not worth half the points of this vampire lord..

by the way, I think these kinds of combinations are what makes the VC book very powerful, perhaps even too much so (but I have too little experience with them to judge that). There are just a load of interesting combination of vamp powers and magic items you can make that really enhance each other, so much so even that I wonder if the playtesters and game designers though them up before they released the book.

He still has 4 S5 auto hits with red fury in the second round of combat. Give him walking death and he wins the combat anyway in the first round. And against a champion, he may onyl take one wound, but he still can fail more than one save so beguile and red fury still work. You can take 5 unsaved wounds in a challenge.

soots
10-04-2008, 14:27
What i miss most about old book.

Banshees by themselves - why o why do we have a shooter with poor melee stats in a melee unit!
WS 7 vampires - I just liked the idea of my vamp lord being WS 10, even just for bragging rights. Hero level Blooddragon was ws8. Our best chars are now on par with dwarfs/elves and will get slapped around by chaos and liz lords.
No +1S and +1A bloodlines - S6 is oh so important because majority of things are T4. Also because these were relatively cheap compared to red fury, we could give them to heroes.
Heroes cant specialise - Vamp hero has lost +1S and +1A bloodlines, you cant make them that great a mage, so you either get an ok melee vampire(Not that many good combos compared to last list) or an ok magic user with melee abilities you pay for but would be fortunate to take advantage of.
Zombie T3 - They are a totally different unit now.

The Clairvoyant
10-04-2008, 22:53
So what is the point of this thread then? If its not a complaint about the new book why title it "VC what they Broke"?

All you seem to be saying is things are different. Well that's quite a shock isn't it?

If you're trying to review the new army list (and the book over all) there are better ways to go about it.

well i believe, unlike most threads here, this is meant to be a fun thread - a tongue-in-cheek rant at all the things that went AWOL with the new book.

javaguru
11-04-2008, 01:02
But notably improving Bumshees as well, lets not forget that.

They now affect anyone with a Leadership (previously anyone Immune to Psychology couldn't be killed) and of course, now they can stand and fire with the shriek, which is pretty potent in itself.

Add in that they now have a rock hard bodyguard, and it's quite an improvment, and worth the points in my opinion (stick them in a building, and then laugh at your opponents feeble attempts to winkle you out!)

That was one of the first things I checked when I purchased the army book, I never took one because my gaming group has weekend gaming without disclosing races until you show up and the army lists are set.

The new book really helps my graveguard heavy list. Losing ghouls as a skirmish screen doesn't really matter since I can raise my graveguard with nehek as easily as skeletons. The new book did close the "all cav" loophole from the last book where one could take all black knighst and dire wolves, that was a very effective army. The new army has the "feel" of the relentless horde which strikes me as more characterful.

IMO, the best way to defeat the VC's is to focus on killing individual units, create an asymetry of force. In 2k points VC will have at least 3 slow units. Focus on taking out those blood knights with shooting/magic as wll as the black knights(they're much more expensive in the new book with barding).

SilverWarlock
11-04-2008, 02:58
Thank you for making this thread.

I'll need to make a fake whine about the demons thread in a month or so to get all the trolls running in the same direction.

Reminds me of those group events where 10 people start looking up and pointing at a building and gather a crowd, then they leave and the crowd keeps getting bigger.

Next in line:

"Slaanesh is overpowered, the whole army is fast, and I ran straight up the field and didnt win"

"My cannon crew didnt kill the bloodthirster, that thing is overpowered, how do I play against it?"

"The Great unclean one and his 600 points for 4 attacks are totally cheated because I couldn't kill it while it flanked all my units"

and last but not least:

"My Vampire counts can't cast with the -2 to cast banner on my vampire lore, I keep trying with 1D6, I just don't understand how it doesn't work anymore"

And the funniest part is, we might be hearing that from the people whining about overpowered vampires now, who will have just bought a Vampire army to join the ultimate winning side.

Anyways, I have yet to see the good players at tournaments whine about a list, they just start poking holes in the book as soon as it comes out.

Lord Dan
11-04-2008, 04:29
How did you get a strigoi lord with 6 attacks? You couldn't take any magic or mundane weapons, and I'm pretty sure the +1 attack power was a blood dragon power.

And two fists doesn't count as two hand weapons. :p


EDIT: There's no "c" in "mundane"

SuperBeast
11-04-2008, 10:18
Or how about a Awesome caster?
How about, master of the black arts, dark accoutyle, lord of the dead, with the skull staff and the bloody haub, a caster with armor and a ward.
I must have missed the bit in the book that says vamp lords get 110pts of magic items...

2d6
11-04-2008, 10:34
How did you get a strigoi lord with 6 attacks? You couldn't take any magic or mundane weapons, and I'm pretty sure the +1 attack power was a blood dragon power.

And two fists doesn't count as two hand weapons. :p


EDIT: There's no "c" in "mundane"

It was the standard strigoi adjustment

+1 A, Ward save, No magic items, Hatred

Lordmonkey
11-04-2008, 11:39
Thank you for making this thread.

I'll need to make a fake whine about the demons thread in a month or so to get all the trolls running in the same direction.


This isn't a whine thread. This is about what people feel they 'broke' with the release of the new book. This isn't about nerfed units, it's nostalgic disappointment at the aesthetic losses made during the transition.
You make a valid point about the typical knee-jerk reaction to new army books, but you've made it in the wrong place :rolleyes:


I must have missed the bit in the book that says vamp lords get 110pts of magic items...

That is a combination of items and powers. Lords may now take 100pts of magic items, and 100pts of bloodline powers.

I do miss the more 'extensive' range of characterful bloodline powers, but I by far prefer the tactical implications of the new book. It is a shame that they took away the flavour of the old bloodlines, though.

The Clairvoyant
11-04-2008, 12:12
This isn't a whine thread. This is about what people feel they 'broke' with the release of the new book. This isn't about nerfed units, it's nostalgic disappointment at the aesthetic losses made during the transition.
You make a valid point about the typical knee-jerk reaction to new army books, but you've made it in the wrong place :rolleyes:



That is a combination of items and powers. Lords may now take 100pts of magic items, and 100pts of bloodline powers.

skull staff + walach bloody hauberk is 110pts. Thats what he's referring to :)

I do miss the more 'extensive' range of characterful bloodline powers, but I by far prefer the tactical implications of the new book. It is a shame that they took away the flavour of the old bloodlines, though.

I agree to an extent, but i now my army includes a 'blood dragon' lord, a 'necrarch' lord and an 'unreleased bloodline of etherealness' lord.
I try to keep the characters as bloodliney as possible. Though my BD lord does have the strigoi power of infinite hatred which is the closest to the old Heart Piercing and my necrarchy one (though i actually use neferata to represent cos its better model than any of the necrarch models) is all wizardy and has no armour at all.

polymphus
11-04-2008, 12:29
I haven't got the new book (played 6th Edition VC waaaaay back) but I think the loss of lone banshees is disappointing. I really liked the feel that the lone banshee gave to the thing: She wasn't badass like she is now, more sad and terrifying at the same time, which is so very, very VC.

I rather like the way zombies appear to have gone though. The day zombies beat anything at all in combat is a sad day indeed. They win through sheer weight in numbers, and I think the change reflects this well.

Also sad to see the bloodlines go, but a quick flick through the book in the store and it seems the replacement holds up admirably. I'll miss being able to call Johannes Von Carstein a real Von Carstein, but I'm sure the new rules will be able to replicate him just as well.

But yeah; my big complaint is the banshee being stuck in a unit. Grr. Solo banshee much more characterful. Gripe gripe mumble.

Poly
Out

Lordmonkey
11-04-2008, 12:33
Ah yeah, kept thinking the hauberk is 35. CHEAT! :D

2d6
11-04-2008, 16:31
I haven't got the new book (played 6th Edition VC waaaaay back) but I think the loss of lone banshees is disappointing. I really liked the feel that the lone banshee gave to the thing: She wasn't badass like she is now, more sad and terrifying at the same time, which is so very, very VC.
Poly
Out

My biggest complaint with the new banshee is that she no longer counts as an independant character, so can only crawl along at 6" a turn without vampire support. the short range of her attack and lack of maneuverability does make her less useful overall i think...
I liked that she wasn't a direct part of the army, more of a wandering loner.

Having said that I do love the new wraith unit, tookout a block of 19 greatswords with arch lector by charging them to the front with zombies and 2 wraiths+banshee and hitting them in the rear with a varghulf.
I'm thinking of running the wraith unit without the banshee, poor CC, Is a champion so had to answer a challenge, screaming failed to cause any wounds, would have got more kills for 25 less points.

Silverwarlock, i think you did get the right idea, the thread is a "fake whine"
The point isn't so much nostalgia as a light hearted dig at the breaking the game thread.

Spirit
11-04-2008, 17:39
ITs still funny to play lizardmen with cairn wraiths, low LD and a lucky roll of a double 6, bye bye unit lol.

2d6
11-04-2008, 17:46
ITs still funny to play lizardmen with cairn wraiths, low LD and a lucky roll of a double 6, bye bye unit lol.

Ahh, reminds me of the time I played a lizardman army, I'd matched the battlelines the way I wanted, and things were in my favour, Except for the unit of cold one riders poised on my flank, ready to go though each of my units in a mass of charges and overruns. My last line of defense was a lone banshee, stalk, Scream, roll of 11, bye bye cold ones, oh how I laughed....

fubukii
12-04-2008, 06:09
i stand mistaken u can just get the 2+ armor suit instead for 25pts on the caster lord :P and put him in a unit with a bsb with regeneration instead? :)

javaguru
12-04-2008, 23:37
My biggest complaint with the new banshee is that she no longer counts as an independant character, so can only crawl along at 6" a turn without vampire support. the short range of her attack and lack of maneuverability does make her less useful overall i think...
I liked that she wasn't a direct part of the army, more of a wandering loner.

Having said that I do love the new wraith unit, tookout a block of 19 greatswords with arch lector by charging them to the front with zombies and 2 wraiths+banshee and hitting them in the rear with a varghulf.
I'm thinking of running the wraith unit without the banshee, poor CC, Is a champion so had to answer a challenge, screaming failed to cause any wounds, would have got more kills for 25 less points.

Silverwarlock, i think you did get the right idea, the thread is a "fake whine"
The point isn't so much nostalgia as a light hearted dig at the breaking the game thread.

I was thinking about running an ethereal vampire with the cairn wraiths as a flank unit. Gives them magic support and the ability to march.