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andy10k
09-04-2008, 15:03
I would really like to make a Wood Elf army containing Orion, however from what I've heard he isn't the best choice in competitive 2k tournament armies, is this true?

Either way, what do the Orion list (if there are any) look like? I've seen a couple with just spam Wild Riders and 2 eagles, but is that the only way to field him? Oh, and what other character(s) are viable to field with him? I was thinking spellsingers w/ 2 scrolls on a unicorn, but don't know about taking a final hero or not.

Any help is most appreciated. Thanks

IronBrother
09-04-2008, 15:23
You don't have to use all Wild Riders, but just be careful of taking too expensive of characters as he already takes up a more than a quarter of your army without the Hounds. You could pretty much do anything but take Waywatchers, the only reason people run the Wild Rider army is very nasty (I run one), and can be extremely hard for almost any enemy to general against.

andy10k
09-04-2008, 15:24
Cheerz for the quick reply, so what does your version of an Orion list look like?

IronBrother
09-04-2008, 15:27
At 2000
Orion,
8 Units of 5 Wild Riders with full command,
1 Great Eagle.

It has only let me down once, and that was against Settra at 2000 points, otherwise the army is undefeated.

andy10k
09-04-2008, 15:35
oooo not bad :D

How do you deal with magic heavy armies?
Shooting high elf armies?
VC magic spam?
And finally, what do you do against dragons and the such?

:P

IronBrother
09-04-2008, 16:37
I ignore Dragons, as I can just move around them or go into woods and they can't fly into me. Magic heavy I have MR on almost every unit and four dispel dice, and just go for the throat. If the VC spam on me, I just charge the new units for the easy VP and Overrun into the bigger unit. I don't worry about shooting because of how many saves the Wild Riders have, and that's what the Eagle is for.

Dragonknight31
09-04-2008, 17:46
That sounds like a fun army to play, but very expensive to build.

Do you front charge with your wild riders? I imagine you also try to setup many flank charges if possible. Can the wild riders ever win against a block?

So does Orion just also charge blocks with the riders?

IronBrother
09-04-2008, 19:14
Never go alone. Always hit the flanks. Those are the philosophies that I use with this army. And yes this army can take on blocks, but I have to send at least two units and one of them (preferably both) hit a flank or rear. Orion, to be honest, doesn't see much combat until the end of the game. He is very powerful but is VERY frail when he doesn't charge. And isn't really a reliable character killer.

_Lucian_
09-04-2008, 19:45
I would be cautious about using the aforementioned army. I have seen that army run a few times (not his but others like it) and it is quite beatable and leads to some boring games. The simplest approach is to hide in the corner and deny any flank charges, while slowly taking out the expensive rider units one at a time. From a tourny point of view you will be coming up against opponents who would know to adopt similar tactics and you would likely end up with a number of very unenjoyable games. That army excels against inexperienced players who are too afraid to simply play a waiting game and defend using terrain. Its a beardy type list (although in accordance with the fluff) however i personally find in unbalanced especially considering none of the units of supposed fast cavalry can 'flee/bait' due to immunity to psychology. But after all it is your choice, just if we ever met in the tourny circuit i would tell you to prepare for a very dull game

IronBrother
09-04-2008, 21:29
Very dull, huh, that is not how I would describe the army. And I have had people castle against me, if we ever meet, I will point you in their direction. I only play this list against veteran players for the challenge. Like I said I have only lost once, and I have never had a dull game with this army (nor has my opponent). It makes you think about every move, and who to charge/move. And in the case of the opponent, makes them think HARD on who to shoot where, and who to cast against. But if all you want to do is run straight at each other like a pair of Orcs squabbling over a "Humie Drumstick", go ahead. Beardy I don't believe is the right description of this army. Maybe "Fragile Nastiness" (which was the way a friend recently described it after I won a tournament, and also received players choice). All armies are preference.

_Lucian_
10-04-2008, 09:53
Well expecting you to defend your army is only natural. If i ever see your army do well in a GT i will let you know

xragg
10-04-2008, 21:12
I find it hard to believe you can win a tourney by setting back in a corner and castling. Every tourney I have gone to uses scenarios which often involve taking an objective or moving across the board somewhere.

I like this army. Its good motivation for me to make 30+ wild riders at once, which I have been on the fence about making anyway. I know its not uncommon for WE players to convert wild riders into a centaur using eternal guard torsos and elven horse bodies (or similar models). I was thinking about using beastmen torsos with elven horses instead, but havent totally decided. I am also interested to see how a half elf / half cold one would look like.

_Lucian_
11-04-2008, 10:38
You dont spend the entire tournment castling. You would only do so againsy this army. GT's dont use and objective based games, simply the standard.

Krootman
11-04-2008, 14:24
It sounds like an alright army, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone but the most experienced players, theres just too much that can go wrong with this list. Also remember in the gt you don't get your free wood which really sucks :(

Oh and one final note, if you want orion to ever see combat DONT give him hounds.

xragg
11-04-2008, 14:55
You dont spend the entire tournment castling. You would only do so againsy this army. GT's dont use and objective based games, simply the standard.

Really? I am going to my first GT this summer. I have been to many rogue trader tourneys and local store tourneys who have all used scenarios. Nothing game breaking, just scenarios that make the game more then a "line up and shot" encounter. I am surprised GTs dont. And if GTs dont use scenarios, why do they prevent wood elves from getting a free wood? I was assuming they did since it could create an unfair advantage given the right scenarios. They really should allow spellsingers the option to choose beasts and life magic like spell weavers when they take away the free wood rule (since the base loren spell only works with a wood on the table).

Anyway, I brought a very heavy gunline once to a RT tourney and quickly learned that a one dimensional army/strategy is very risky for tourneys. One scenario began at dusk (limited shooting range, 3d6"? rolled for each unit when it attempted to fire, dusk ended on a 5+/4+/etc rolled at the start of each turn after the first). Another was control and hold a hill in the center, which can be hard for a gun line.

I

_Lucian_
11-04-2008, 15:13
If you really are going to a GT i would download the pack off the website to give you an idea of what is, and isnt allowed. Untill you know as much dont bother write a list

IronBrother
11-04-2008, 18:37
This army should only be played by veteran players. As one wrong move and the army could be toast. NEVER take the hounds with Orion. Though I am thinking about giving them to a Space Wolf Wolf Lord. They are a waste of points and very easy to kill, and thus generating extra CR against Orion. This army does not really need the free wood, and I don't even think I have used that "free" wood in a long time, but remember if there is no scenario then by the rules in WE army book, they get the wood, as it is a pitched battle (run-on sentence, my apologies). And yes, xragg, spellsingers should have access to at least one more lore. Especially if they are going to make it such that a defensive army that never really leaves its borders, has no trees.

_Lucian_
12-04-2008, 13:39
GT games always have 1 wood per table to the best of my knowledge, ergo they dont need access to a new lore

xragg
14-04-2008, 06:29
Oh and one final note, if you want orion to ever see combat DONT give him hounds.

I blindly accepted this statement first time I read the post, but now I have to wonder why? I play-tested this army against my friend O&G 2250 tourney army.

Orion
9 units of 5 Wild Riders, full command (one with war banner)
1 Glamourweave Spellsinger on horse, Cluster of Radiants*

*yes, I realized later I did this by accident as I know only treemen/branchwraiths can have that spite. But for this game I never used all my dispel dice anyway, and will just switch it to a dispel scroll in future games.

Pretty much at the end of turn 2.5, he conceded. I had Orion in one of the wild rider units, but realized later this wasnt necessary. Wouldnt he actually be safer with his wolfs, since he can be picked out of units anyways for shooting/magic? His wolfs at least have a chance to absorb a couple of hits/wounds due to the randomizing. I am sure I am overlooking something obvious, but for a first run, I really like this army. Fragile nastyness is a great description of it.

xragg
14-04-2008, 06:39
Nevermind, I just glanced at army builder again and noticed he doesnt have MR on his own, so that would be a good reason to toss him in a unit like I did with the spellsinger.

IronBrother
14-04-2008, 06:46
Orion is unbreakable, so he can not join other units ever. The hounds grossly effect his ability to maneuver in game. Also they are very easy to kill and will make Orion fall apart faster due to CR.