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View Full Version : how will combat squads effect command squads?



Valo
10-04-2008, 02:49
so with the new Marine codex on the horizon,and most likely being modelled after the BA/DA codex style,with combat squads as standard on almost everything,how do you think it will change the command squad? Right now,you can have a command squad,with 2 attached characters and up to 10marines,so a total possibility of 12 marines,do you think this is going to be changed in the new codex?

Will we still be able to take 2 hq's attached to a command squad and only count them as 1?

Will we be able to take 2 characters,10 marines,and split them in combat squads both led by a character?

will they simply state that a 5 man squad is the max you can now take?that possibility would seem likely as the box set contains enough marines for a 5 man squad.

just got around to think about that while assembling a command squad,and would like to know what your predictions or comments are on it?

bdo
10-04-2008, 02:52
i think i believe the "you may take a 5 man command squad [not more!! *whips*] per independent chracter" method will transfer over to the next marine dex. DA and BA told us part of the future... and i really donīt like the (possible) castration of commandsquads :(

Valo
10-04-2008, 03:42
i think i believe the "you may take a 5 man command squad [not more!! *whips*] per independent chracter" method will transfer over to the next marine dex. DA and BA told us part of the future... and i really donīt like the (possible) castration of commandsquads :(

I'm with you there,its one of the options I really enjoy being able to field,as its very fluffy.

Tommygun
10-04-2008, 03:54
Is it possible to have 13? A 10 man command squad plus attached Force commander, Librarian, and Chaplin?

Chem-Dog
10-04-2008, 03:57
I fully expect the Marines to fall in line with the DA and BA lists. 5 veterans (with option to upgrade Company Champion, Standard Bearer and Apothercary) accompanying a character.
Doubt very much if you'll be able to attach a second Character (IIRC ATM you can attatch a Chaplain AND a Librarian to a character as one HQ slot) but a second HQ character should be able to join the Command squad as normal per Independant Characters.

hush88
10-04-2008, 04:19
Pretty much what Chem-Dog said. DA and BA pretty much laid the basic foundation for the marine codex (unless GW is messing with our minds). 5 men veteran team as the command squad with possible upgrades seems pretty much to be it without having to be attached to a HQ and does not count to the FoC.

What i am interested to see is what psych powers are the librarians going to have, considering that both DA and BA librarians really bites (ok, DA bites more than BA).

Valo
10-04-2008, 04:23
Is it possible to have 13? A 10 man command squad plus attached Force commander, Librarian, and Chaplin?

yup,but the attached character will use up another HQ choice,but you could just make another command squad,and join another 2 characters to that..


Pretty much what Chem-Dog said. DA and BA pretty much laid the basic foundation for the marine codex (unless GW is messing with our minds). 5 men veteran team as the command squad with possible upgrades seems pretty much to be it without having to be attached to a HQ and does not count to the FoC.

What i am interested to see is what psych powers are the librarians going to have, considering that both DA and BA librarians really bites (ok, DA bites more than BA).

yeah teh BA ones arent so bad,but teh DA have really suffered.

Avaron
10-04-2008, 05:58
the blood angel powers are one from codex spacemarines and one that used to be a minor psyker power from chapter aproved.

kinda sad next to chaos though.

still better than DA who might as well not even have powers.

bdo
10-04-2008, 06:30
*sighs* i really want command squads still to have the option be 10 man strong... i had plans for several commandsquads for 2 battle companies, each kitted out for a different purpose, so the plans are on hold for now until i see what becomes of command squads in the next edition of codex spacemarines....

hush88
10-04-2008, 07:15
I love that 10 men command squad, it used to be my main assault team....now.....the vets have become my main assualt team...except without the apothecary....which is really sad.

The thing about the librarians is that DA's is the "could have been".
Hellfire is great, portable flamer without the equipment, BUT unpredictability which makes it practically useless.
Force shield is great as the new invul save, since it looks like the new librarians won't have access to iron halo, BUT only once a turn, that is inadequate.

Sir_Turalyon
10-04-2008, 07:24
It depends whenever combat squads and 5-10 strong unit choices bacome norm or not; I still think there will be option to take non-codex size squads.



and i really donīt like the (possible) castration of commandsquads

I would not call it castration, SM commans squads are glorified tactical squads with overpriced terminator honours option (veterans are simply overpriced wimps, but that's another story). DA veteran and command squads were first I considered actually worth taking. As DA command squad is fearless, veteran skills for command squad are still possible.



Hellfire is great, portable flamer without the equipment, BUT unpredictability which makes it practically useless.


"Occasionaly useless" at worst; it's not as bad as it seems. Str 2d6-2 means Str 5 on average; Ap D6 means AP3 half of the time. It would only be made better by rolling AP separately or each target, as DE destructor does (i've read DE players swear by Str 4 ApD6 destructors just beacuse of high chance of good AP.

HsojVvad
17-04-2008, 20:48
I don't think SM will have combat squads. If that is the case then you can only have 5 or 10 man squads.

I believe they want as many SM people want to buy for a squad so it might be more like CSM than DA\BA

Brother Landrain
17-04-2008, 21:14
I play DA, so I get to live with it regardless...

But, IMHO.

The reason for Combat Squads was to lower the number of SM Heavy weapons...

ie. no more 6 man HW squad.
ie. no more 6 Termy x2 DonkeyGun squad.

I am fairly sure that all squads will be 5 or 10 man with SM and I would guess the CSM will follow suit eventually.

The one thing that upsets me, is the 5 man Deathwing Limit on squads. I really fell you should get the option of 10 man squads. It is especially rough on a CC squad.

That being said, It kinda makes the LRC extended Transport Capacity only useful for IC's with squads.

Grand Master Raziel
17-04-2008, 23:09
I fully expect the Marines to fall in line with the DA and BA lists. 5 veterans (with option to upgrade Company Champion, Standard Bearer and Apothercary) accompanying a character.
Doubt very much if you'll be able to attach a second Character (IIRC ATM you can attatch a Chaplain AND a Librarian to a character as one HQ slot) but a second HQ character should be able to join the Command squad as normal per Independant Characters.

That's not quite correct. The way it works is that you can buy a Command Squad for every Indepedent Character in your force, but the squad and the IC are under no obligation to function as one unit. So, you could, for instance, buy a Chaplain, give him a jump pack, have him accompany your assault squad, and also buy a 5-man Command Squad to assign to some other task. The Command Squad does not take up an FOC slot, so you could (if you wanted) buy two ICs and two Command Squads. However, each individual Command Squad can only ever be 5-man strong. Having been using the DA rules for several months now, I'm now using Company Veteran Squads for what I used to use Command Squads for. Company Vets, except for the specialist options (Standard Bearer, Apothecary, Company Champion) are a far better unit than either the Command Squad or Veteran Squad from Codex: Space Marines. With any luck, the Veterans Squad entry in the next edition of C:SM will be more like Company Vets than not.

As for DA Librarians...well, all my thoughts on that can be found by clicking on the appropriate link in my sig. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one it is. ;)

HsojVvad
17-04-2008, 23:49
I am fairly sure that all squads will be 5 or 10 man with SM and I would guess the CSM will follow suit eventually.



When I looked at my new codes CSM they had no listings for such. they were 5 to 15 troops i think.

Sarlock
18-04-2008, 00:52
personally i'm holding off on working on things like my scout squads. command squads etc until i know whats gonna happen to them. You don't wanna build and paint up a nice squad and then find it is useless in terms of rules

im just working on characters, tactical marines and tanks for the time being to try and reduce the risk of having my army stuffed up with 5th edition stuff

centy
18-04-2008, 01:00
Dude 5 man command squads are very effective. If you had a packed 10 man squad you are likley to have many points spent on hq and get low comp scores in tourneys.
I use dante with honor gaurd and 2 assault squads nearby so they all benefit from his special rules.
If i saw on your list a single squad worth 6-700pts i would target it with anti tank weapons till it was gone. 4 assault cannons and 4 multimeltas will do major damage to a squad.

Valo
18-04-2008, 03:49
Dude 5 man command squads are very effective. If you had a packed 10 man squad you are likley to have many points spent on hq and get low comp scores in tourneys.
I use dante with honor gaurd and 2 assault squads nearby so they all benefit from his special rules.
If i saw on your list a single squad worth 6-700pts i would target it with anti tank weapons till it was gone. 4 assault cannons and 4 multimeltas will do major damage to a squad.


But not all of us want to do play tourney's or competitions,some of us play for the hell of it,just so we can put our fluffnut armies on the table,it would just be nice if we had the choice for 10 man command squads,Still implemeant the combat squad rules,no heavy weapons unless 10 man,but leave us the option to give them terminators honours,and wargear.


I'd really like my bike riding command squad to be usuable,yes they cost 670 points,but who cares!!! they are fun to use,and for people like me(who are "slightly" obcessed with fluff) who want to be able to field sayyyyyyyy,the 8th company,which is the full company of fast attack marines,in game.

so that would mean a command squad,on bikes,or with jump packs,that would include an apothecary,champion and standard bearer,plus attached captain and chaplain.

If GW decide to get rid of the rule allowing 2 HQ's,attached to a command squad to only count as one,I can live with that,as its not really a huge loss,as its very rarely used anyways,that being said the only time I EVER see it field is in VERY large point games,or in my 10th company army.


If i saw on your list a single squad worth 6-700pts i would target it with anti tank weapons till it was gone. 4 assault cannons and 4 multimeltas will do major damage to a squad.

Your last sentence is terrible,no offence intended to you or your style of play,but list's that include 4 assault cannons,are kinda what gives non marine,and even marine players(like myself)reason to complain(not saying 3 falcons with harlies is any better,but i'm sure you get the idea.),personally,I think thats really the only NEEDED change in the marine codex,basically just lose the rending,possibly bump it down to AP 5.

Also,here's another question for everyone,why do you think that wargear is about to dissapear?In my mind(which I'll admit,is not the most intelligent one around),it really wasent that hard to use,was it?

centy
18-04-2008, 06:49
lol you complain about assault cannons and multimeltas.
My arm only contains 1 lascannon ans 2 heavy bolters sponsons.
no heavy weapons on the troops only on vehicles and attack bikes.
Not a missile or plasma cannon in sight either.
The very surprsing bit is my army won best army at the last tourney.

Valo
18-04-2008, 13:16
lol you complain about assault cannons and multimeltas.
My arm only contains 1 lascannon ans 2 heavy bolters sponsons.
no heavy weapons on the troops only on vehicles and attack bikes.
Not a missile or plasma cannon in sight either.
The very surprsing bit is my army won best army at the last tourney.

Its good to hear that you dn't have any assault cannons in your army,and I don't really see any issue with melta's at all.......just assault cannons,thats my only problem.