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View Full Version : Which gunline to choose



Sarael
10-04-2008, 10:35
The short version is that my friends have started having "Gunline Day" at the ends of the months (only shooting and casting casualties: no combat). They've been letting me proxy in my VC zombies and ghouls as TK Skeletal Archers, and my skellies have played crew to Bat Swarm SSCs...

I don't like it, so I'm thinking of collecting a new army, one that none of them play (for aesthetics mostly). I have a few questions though which will help me determine which to pick.

Brettonian Bowmen: Are there restrictions on how many units of them you can have (like one per units of knights or something)? Any restrictions on how many units can skirmish? None of us have that army book.

Orcs & Goblins: Does Azhag (or anyone for that matter) end animosity for the army like he used to back in the days of the "yellow" army book? I used to play O&G but lost the army to a fire, and when I started back, it was Vampires (1st bloodlines days) for me. Again, none of us have the book.

Lizardmen: Can skinks use bows in the Southlands list like they used to? Ditto on the book.

We live about 2 hours from a GW store, otherwise I'd just check the books myself.

There are 2 dwarf gunlines, I can't stand the way Empire troopers look (2 of them anyway), and there's already a Wood Elf and a High Elf. My only other thought would be a Dark Elf rptr xbow storm. I'm kinda partial to skirmishing shooty in any case, as I want to concentrate as much fire as possible into a small area (my 40k army is destroyer heavy necrons, to give an idea of my shooty personality).

There aren't any Reaper Bolt Throwers mounted on Chariots, are there? :P

_Lucian_
10-04-2008, 12:22
I would go dark elf. If you plan to do a shooty day i would definatly go Dark Elves. There basic lvl 1 spelll is chill wind: 24" range D6 S3 hits, Any unit which takes any casulties cannot shoot next turn...... Watch your opponents scramble for there dispel scrolls

Necromancer2
10-04-2008, 15:09
Dark Elves are your only option (from what you discribed).

Good Magic.. and bolt throwers... rxb units and your done.

Sterling
10-04-2008, 15:57
don't underestimate gobbo shooting. two for one cheap spear chukkas, doom diver catapaults for sniping priority targets and the cheapest archers (other than gnoblar fighters) in the game... plus magic that is certainly effective. Of course, you would have to buy and paint a couple hundred models...

Southland skinks can still take poisoned short bows, and I'm not sure about the other two questions.

I would be very tempted by southlands skinks... Especially since you could drop a couple units, add Kroxigor as special units and play it in regular games without much trouble.

Sarael
10-04-2008, 16:19
So no one knows anything about the Animosity issue? I'd pick O&G over the rest if only I didn't have to worry about it. Yes, it's that big of a problem for me...

IF I go with DE, I'd be taking a High Sorc plus 3 Sorcs (with appropriate kit), 3x5 Dark Riders w/ RXBs, 4x Reapers, and as many shades as points allowed after that.

If I go O&G, it'd be 8 BTs, 2 DDs, then as many shamans and bow armed gobbos as I could fit, after Animosity was dealt with. I may go ahead and just order the book anyway (the old one was a bit of fun).

Lizardmen intrigue me. Skirmishing, Poisoned, Multiple Shot archers as Core, regardless of how frail and short ranged they may be, have potential in my mind. And no one can dispute the magical might of a Slann. But, Southland skinks have SHORT bows? I'd rather have the blowpipes...

Sterling
10-04-2008, 17:24
blowpipes are nice, but I actually prefer javelins on my scouts for the basic reason that BS 3 + multi-shot (or stand & shoot) + long range + any other modifier (charged by skirmishers?) negates your poison because you need more than a 6 to hit. Javelins can move and fire and will always have a shot at poison. Poisoned short bows can kill quite a bit... don't underestimate them.

TheDudeGuyMan
10-04-2008, 18:34
What about Wood Elves? They have some balla magic, and great shooting.

The Red Scourge
10-04-2008, 20:20
Go Skryre! Go Skryre! Go Skryre!

Nothin' like munchin cheese while gunning down your opponent.

And it's the best looking army in the game :)

Gimp
10-04-2008, 20:58
I used to play a gunline Dark Elf army and....it failed badly

however in recent years I have been using them on the attack and they work well.


to be honest gun line dark elf armies dont work. Rather go for Skaven or Lizardmen skinks (salamanders rock) or even Tomb Kings

Gimp
10-04-2008, 21:07
my friend uses a very cool Tomb King army

Level 4 mage

level 2 mage on Casket

2 cheap Princes

2 units of Tomb Guard

2 units of Ubshati

1 Catapult

the rest are just 12 men skelies with bows

Weemo
10-04-2008, 22:00
I would go for sykre aswell, 2d6 s5 will kill and panic most enemy shooting whilst jezzails and wlc's pick out war machines, oh and did i mention ratling guns?

anarnii
10-04-2008, 22:55
skyre is cool and different, but i wouldnt underestimate a skink heavy list, with all the scouts, terradons and flying skink of death they can really reduce enemy warmachines.

i would also be tempted by a tomb kings army led by Khalida which all units in the army with bows to become poisoned and she has a cool bound spell which does 2d6 S4 hits everyturn power level 5 and stops people moving if they take wounds.

Frankly
11-04-2008, 06:53
two for one cheap spear chukkas

WHAT!!!!!!

Try 8 my friend.


Southlands list is my favorite shooty list, cheap and mobile lots of P.Dice lots of dispel.

Sarael
11-04-2008, 08:47
Skaven almost sound interesting, but I'd probably need gutter runners (or whatever the ninjas in training are) for my Core. Sure, big blocks of skaven are good in normal games of warhammer, but on Gunline Day, we don't allow combat. That'd be points spent on a block and ratling gun for pretty much JUST the ratling gun. It's a weird concept our resident gunline Empire guy came up with, and everyone's bitten. 40 Jezzails sound interesting though... That'd be what, 800 points of S5 AP shooting at what, 36"? EEENteresting...

From the looks of things, I think I'm gonna go Lizardmen. Skirmishing shooters have always given me the most fit, since the entire unit can see through itsself. It's a concentration of force that appeals to me. Plus, as the only other thing we allow is magic, and in the magic phase one can never go wrong with a Slann...

I've effectively been playing Tomb Kings on gunline day since we started, and I don't like it. Once the heirophant gets cannonsniped, it's all over. If Khalida allowed units of skeletal bowmen to skirmish, it'd be a different story.

Lordsaradain
11-04-2008, 09:09
On Azhag, any units within 6" may re-rolled failed animosity tests.

_Lucian_
11-04-2008, 09:58
You would still need clan rats. They have the main stay unit rules (eg have to have 1 of these units for every other type) Which is probabully the sole reason its not a "shooty army" in theme with your game night.

DE armies actually work amazing with alot of fire power, one of my closest mates runs a DE dark rider army and it does very well at tournys.

One thing about lizard men is you would have to endure a turn or two of serious punishment before you got close enough to use your bows. And remember although you are skirmishers you are T2 so it cancels out the majority of times, and you will be much weaker against magic.

Your Mum Rang
11-04-2008, 10:17
New Tzeentch is a gunline of sorts.

Sterling
11-04-2008, 13:50
terradons and salamanders and lots of them...

speaking of TK, as powerful as you can be, it seems like it would never beat another gunline. Although I would dearly love to unleash 2 or 3 casket blasts and fire 2x from all my SSCs, the TK are way too vulnerable to enemy gunlines. Character snipes and war machine blasting are something you can't stand up against. It's not always about hitting hardest... you have to survive the enemy hits.

Lizards have skirmish, salamanders and fliers.
Gobbos have numbers, sniping doom divers and spear-chukkas of doom.

Since the cannon armies (empire and dwarf) are already taken and you don't want to duplicate, IMO, those are your two best options. Lizards will cost about half the $$ to buy models for and take far less time to assemble and paint. Gobbo hordes have the whole "super-cool" factor going for them...

GMMStudios
11-04-2008, 17:25
My empire gunline is flagellant bodies with handgunner arms. Its a vampire cult.

Empire troopers are very far from the worst troopers out there, but if you really despise them that much then do what I did and convert something.

Sarael
11-04-2008, 18:52
That's a heck of an idea! It would give me the unique appearance I'm looking for, even if the rules aren't.

Xynok
13-04-2008, 21:19
Dwarf crossbows/canons/thunderers?

Sarael
13-04-2008, 21:59
There's already 2 dwarf players, otherwise I'd go for it. I HAVE, however, considered using the new ghoul models with guns, simply for something a little different. I just don't want to play the same army as anyone else (I don't particularly enjoy Gunline day anyway, but it's better than sitting home doing nothing).

I've all but decided on Lizardmen. I'd rather do O&G, but I can't put up with Animosity, mostly because I just don't want to deal with having to roll for it every turn. One possibility we've talked about as far as streamlining Animosity goes is for me to start last, and for me to not get a 6th turn. Mathematically, that would even out (albeit all the animosity crammed into a single turn) and be a lot less of a headache for me to deal with.

My only other opinion right now is to go Skaven. Lots of Jezzails and WLCs would dish out a hefty amount of death, along with ratling guns and warpfire throwers. I'm looking into the options there still, which is why I haven't settled on Lizardmen just yet.

Thanks everyone for the insight though. It's helped my thought process a lot.

Nightsword
13-04-2008, 22:10
New Tzeentch daemons. Horrors in enough numbers count as wizards, Flamers have devesting flame attacks i.e. 3-6 models, 18" range, D6 S4 hits. LoC can have this as well and they have some blinding magic abilities. Heralds have some pretty nifty magic abilities, whether you have a slaaneshi, a nurgle or a tzeentch variant. Add a herald to some horrors and they get a 4+ ward save (not sure if this the same as the daemonic save...) You can't go wrong. Except maybe that the daemonic save doesn't work against magical attacks I don't think. It might be handy to know what the other armies are.

Did I mention Tzeentch magic is the bomb? No, well here:

Daemon Lore of Tzeentch
- Supposedly only 6 spells
#1: Flickering Fire of Tzeentch: D6+1 hits, Strength D6+1, 18" range, 4+
#2: Boon of Tzeentch: Gain d3+1 Power dice only the caster can use. 3+
#3: Glean Magic: Cast any enemy spell (other than one that creates new models, such as certain Undead spells) as a Bound spell with a power level equal to its basic casting level. 7+
#4: Gift of Chaos: Each enemy unit within 12", including units in combat, take D6 S6 hits. 9+
#5: Bolt of Change: 2D6 hits, Strength D6+4, 18" range, 12+
#6: Tzeentch Firestorm: Target unit takes 2D6 S5 hits, every 3 wounds caused creates a Horror. New unit is worth 50 VPs and placed within 3" of the target unit. 24" range, 13+

Check out the rumour roundup (THE REAL ONE) under News and Rumours.

Command13
15-04-2008, 08:27
I Personally would avoid the Tzeentch Idea. Its a good Idea, certainly powerful, but the new Chaos Deamons are going to be a fad army for awhile like all new Armies. Wait for that to calm down first, also being a new army some of the guys in your group will probably get into them. So again I am not bashing the idea, just suggesting that if you do it wait until the newness of the army dies down.

Frankly
15-04-2008, 09:06
T I HAVE, however, considered using the new ghoul models with guns, simply for something a little different.

That sounds pretty cool.

Xynok
15-04-2008, 16:01
sorry I didn't read the original post properly =$

The lizardmen skinks should be fun, don't know what other ranged weapons they have though. I really don't like gunlines in normal games...it seems like a really cowardly approach to playing the game. As well as really hit - and - miss tactic. If I were you I'd use a couple of very small units. So if they want to kill them, they waste an entire round of shooting at one squad of a handful of models (again I don't know lizardmen and this is a tactic I have yet to try, but I'm curious as to whether it would be worth it) The unit will still be able to shoot and wont have to deal with LOS with their own units and such. Good luck in you games!

Sarael
15-04-2008, 17:49
I don't like gunlines at all, but it gives me an excuse to get a new army. The standard sit back and shoot approach bores me to tears, so I think I'm going to go with a come & get you shooty approach with short ranged fire, from massed skinks and some sallies.

Von Wibble
15-04-2008, 19:03
Lizardmen of course also get the Slann for strong magic and shooting. Against a gunline using a gunline, mobility can count for a lot and the lizzies also have that. I think its the right choice bearing in mind you already ruled out several others. Dark Elves and Tzeentch would also be in the frame.

But not Khorne Daemons. For some reason...

Sterling
15-04-2008, 19:53
I might be tempted to take a slann with the huge save vs ranged fire only item, but since temple guard and saurus are useless, I would just go with a southlands army with 5 priests... on the other hand, if you go slann, you could go for some of the serious "anti-shooting" spells, like deluge, or some viscous magic missiles.

I would split the skinks between all the weapon choices (bows, blowguns and javelins), since each has a different "best effect" range you should be able to stagger your army a whole lot while taking every shot available, thus nearly eliminating the serious threat of templates.

The bad part of Southlands is that, while you have the option to add 3 units of Kroxigor and suddenly it's a normal Krox-heavy suthlands army, that means only one other special slot's available.

Sarael
16-04-2008, 07:52
My thoughts on the mobility issue is to deny them LOS, by overloading on the flanks with skinks and simply having better numbers in the right places. I'll probably use a Slann, for the LD boost if nothing else. I'll likely go with Shadow Magic, for Steed, so that his LD is in the right place at the right time.

And yeah, if I ever want to play a normal game with them, all I need to do is add some Krox & Terradons, and away we go!

Xynok
24-04-2008, 16:06
I think the slann mage-priest is an awesomly powerful wizard, the model itself is great too, I might get one just to paint it up:D

The Red Scourge
25-04-2008, 05:16
I don't like gunlines at all, but it gives me an excuse to get a new army. The standard sit back and shoot approach bores me to tears, so I think I'm going to go with a come & get you shooty approach with short ranged fire, from massed skinks and some sallies.

Why do it then?

Why ignore half of the game?

Sarael
25-04-2008, 09:00
What, combat? If you'd read the entire post, we don't allow combat on gunline day (it's a thing our resident gunliners cooked up, mostly so that they could play their gunlines and not be called cheezy, if you ask me). It's caught on with the rest of the group though, and I admit, it's a nice change of pace from the usual charge-flee-countercharge games. Since I started proxying as Lizardmen (go go Zombie Dragon = SLANN!) I'm actually enjoying it more. Next payday I'm planning on getting some skinks and an actual Slann (I hope I can paint him decently). My theory of getting in close and unleashing volleys of 40+ (sometimes) poisoned blowdarts works pretty darned well, & I'm fast enough that I can reposition and "flank" pretty well. Of course, everyone moans when they draw me because I have a long movement phase, but I'm in the process of making some "skirmish movement trays" to help speed that up a lot. I actually find that I prefer more skinks to the less predictable sallies, though I can see where sallies would be a better choice in regular games.

My usual army is a come & get you VC ghoul horde (which was a DW horde in the last edition).

BTW, has anyone seen an army of 150 skinks on the table yet? :P