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HsojVvad
10-04-2008, 13:46
Ok, this is not a thread about the Emperor returning for real but hypothetiacaly. After reading the post about the Emperor returning and reading the threads there it got me thinking. Please bear with me here, I know lot's of people will not agree with this so if you don't agree, just ignore this post and don't post anthing in it, saying it can never happen it's impossible.

Let's just say, for a summer campaign the Emperor has returned. What would happen? I believe anthour war would take place, like a Horus Heresy War II but with every faction involved not just the Imperium and Chaos.

So here is the story. The Emperor has Returned. Did he just wake up and get off his Golden Throne? Did he finally die and 20-30 years later return as a reborned, or reincarnated into anthour human being?

(I don't know nothing of this, something about being a Star Child) Could he come back as a the Star Child?

Or is he really the Emperor? Is he an imposter? Is it Horus reborn? Is it a Chaos god? Could he be an Ethreal from Tau? Could he be one of the Gods from the Orks, or Necrons? ( I don't know any fluff from Necrons so I am grasping at straws here, bear with me please.)

As you can see the Emperor has returned, be it the real deal or a phony in disguise.

We can assume a great war will happen. The Imperium itself would be divided into many factions.

Here is my guesses what will happen. ( Please correct me where I am wrong in my assesments since I don't know much fluff I am guessing from reading what I have. Please feel free to add what you think would happen or would like to happen) There are many possiblilies of how or why he came back.

Of course we will have Brother vs Brother again. There will be SM who believe the Emperor who has returned is the real deal and will fight for and alongside him. There will be other SM who believe he is an imposter and fight against him.

I believe the Imperium Goverment ( I forget the name, the one who runs the Imperium) would be split as well.

There can be those who want to rule the Imperium. Did they Keep the Emperor on the Golden Throne in a coma? Was he eventually healed but the people who were in power wanted to keep it so they Kept the Emperor put him in a coma so he couldn't wake up? Maybe they couldn't kill him but could keep him comatose and now he woke up and they want him eliminated so they can keep power. They will have SM, the Inquition and IG under their power to go against him.

Maybe they are true at heart but think the Emperor is a phony and would have the forces under them to go against him?

Maybe he just woke up and is back. There will be elated people, and others who think he is a phony and imposter. It is sacraligous to procamlaim one as the Emperor and everything must be done to get rid of him.

Maybe Choas will think he is the real deal and all stops must be done to get rid of him, even if it means all the Choas Gods band together?

In the campaign we will have allies fight alongside enemies against people who were fellow allies.

Maybe the Emperor is Horus risen? He took up the disguise as Emperor. Maybe this is what Choas thinks and have CSM allied with SM IG, and Inquition who believe he is the real deal. They would fight side by side now agains the SM, or anyone else who believes he is a phony.

Orks would fight join in just to fight. They could ally up with the SM because in doing so there will be a Grander battle to fight. Or maybe they think the Emperor is their God in disguise.

Mayb Tyranids could ally up with SM because the Emperor is really the Hive Mind? The Tyranids would do everything to protect him and ally up with SM or who ever to protect him.

Tau can think he is an Ethreal or one of thier Gods and ally up with SM and the Imperium.

I don't know much about Eldar or Necrons why they would think, except for the "They think it's their god". Please give an good explanation why they would fight along side SM and the Imperium instead of against them.

Now we can have massive battles, everyone can be allied with anyone, and against everyone.

So please let me know what would you army or forces think? Would they believe the Emperor is the Real deal and fight along side by side him, and be warry of any Alien allies but still fight alongs side them? Would they fight against him thinking he is an imposter? Would they just be neutul and do nothing?

Please no this will never happen, just believe it did happen. What will your forces do?

Sorry for long post, I just babbled on too far, love to hear what you guys think.

Metaphorazine
10-04-2008, 15:24
I think doing it as a campaign would be a Bad Thing (tm). Something as momentous as the emperor coming back can't really be summed up with a couple of webpages, a few in store events, and 6 weeks of fighting. And I gotta say, you're really reaching with some of the reasons for different races matching up. The emperor is the hive mind and an ethereal? Uhh...

That said, the emperor coming back could be very cool indeed. It'd shake things up nicely, and splinter up the current CSM/SM faction thing, as renegades return to the emperor's side, and previously loyal factions become renegade (as they think he's obviously false, and a machination of chaos).

GW could really tone down the "CSM are SM that are EVIL! SM are all joy and kittens! Yay Imperium!" thing, and start writing source books from the perspective of the faction involved! Codex:Renegades would tell the story of those loyal to humanity itself, now hunted by the imperium which is headed by a false emperor. And they could bring back traitor (and then renegade!) guard, dagnabbit!

I gotta tell you, the two things that annoy me about 40k are the whole evil/good marines thing (sorry, better get it right. evil/not evil but not entirely good but for the emperor and i'm brooding now and growing my hair long marines) which is about as two dimensional as a strand of monofilament wire, and the fact that the imperium narrates every damn source book out there. I bought Codex:Orks, not Codex:Time For The Imperium To Tell Me Everything About Orks. I don't care what files inquisitors have on eldrad, I want to know what the eldar think about him! Etc, etc. You get where I'm going.

Anyhoo, back to the original point. I think that the emperor returning has some merit, and would be plenty fun, BUT I don't think there should be a campaign about it. Rather, a series of events, or scenarios or something to chronicle the stages of the emperors return (hell, even make it a supplement like cities of death, or something. call it codex:resurrection. i'm sure there'd be enough going on, pretty much all the armies of humanity would get involved, xenos would more or less ignore it though), but hold the big world-wide campaign a year or so later and then let him charge straight into the EOT swinging his force-hammer madly.

Stuff the 13th dark crusade (or whatever they called abbadon's picnic), the imperial crusade could be truly epic. And it can make sense! (for once) CSM/SM battles are in the EOT, SM/Renegade battles are in the EOT or against the core of the imperium, and everything else is striking at the imperium itself for funsies while the bulk of the forces are elsewhere. Makes a lot more sense than the last campaign's "Uhh, well, orks crashed there, necrons were living there, uh, the tau want to find out about warps so they showed up, uh... dark eldar want slaves, so they went to the biggest war zone they could find to get killed, uh....... space marines showed up cause they're rockin, csm's showed up cause they're evil and wanna give the sm's wedgies........ uh......".


In summary: Emperor showing up would be wicked sweet. But not as a campaign. :D

505
10-04-2008, 15:36
if it was a campaign. GW would end it to keep things the same.

He would be poisoned by someone at the end and be back on the throne in a state of who knows what for who knows how long.

GW does add to the background a bit (eye of terror for 40k Storms of chaos for fantasy) but not enough to make any major changes for long

Metaphorazine
10-04-2008, 15:38
GW does add to the background a bit (eye of terror for 40k Storms of chaos for fantasy) but not enough to make any major changes for long

And that's my point, that it would be an opportunity to make a major change, and improve things for the better. I would love to see it happen!

burtnernie
10-04-2008, 15:56
I like the idea, I have to be honest. However it's a shame that so much fluff would have to be re written and in fairness as said above he would have to probably end up back on his stool...

A more feasible and believable idea would be for one of his sons to return... now some are dead, Ferrus Manus for example... however somes demise is still shrouded in mystery... Russ for example is kicking ass and chewing bubble gum in the EOT, the Lion is missing, Gullable (Gulliman) is in stasis (apparently healing) Dorn is presumed dead cos all they found was his hand...

But, moving back to the point, what's to say that one of the primarchs can't come back and lead mankind back to the brink of unity... now here are my reasons...

1. A primarch would bring hope to a galaxy that is ever shrinking from the threats of aliens and heretics

2. A primarch is only a man, and there are plenty of daemon primarchs to duff him up so what he can do is limited.

3. A primarch would create a good back ground and the fluff potential is phenominal, which would make for a great campaign..

4. Because he is "only" a primarch not much of the original story needs to be changed, the Emperor would still be on his potty, the returning primarch would not be trusted yet and would be refused entry to his "father" therefore the story cannot be affected from that perspective...

5. The primarch can make a few subtle changes that could benefit GW through sales of Space Marines and new components, maybe even a games day release of the model itself, but with no stats whatsoever!!!

The potential for such a move is limitless... hopefully GW read this and take it on board, simply because the Primarchs hold such an aura about them, everyone has a favourite and they would simply sell like hot cakes if GW decided to do models like the fancy Gotrek and Felix set they done.

GW won't bow to the pressure of including them in games simply as they have all the keys....

gojira316
10-04-2008, 18:29
I like the summer campaign idea, but as has been said he would have to end up back on the throne. The Primarch idea is more practical because he is offset by several Chaos Primarchs that are still around. Leman Russ would be an ideal candidate because they could tie in the campaign with a new Space Wolves Codex release that would follow the event.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
10-04-2008, 19:06
The Imperium would see a massive schism of believers and non-believers, and chances are the Astronomicon would go out, rendering everyone pretty much buggered.

dugaal
10-04-2008, 19:41
Well by buggered you mean a huge period of isolation between the realms of the Imperium, which would allow planets to break the shackles of Imperial rule, (or be more susceptible to corruption or attack) and create the need for a new galaxy-spanning crusade!

Also I wonder what the Emperor would think about all the worship and backward-ness his empire has delved into? That itself would likely produce huge ripples as peoples millennium old beliefs come crashing down all at once, while corrupt factions within the old Imperial structure tried to keep the farce going or outright enslave the isolated segments they still have control over....

GW would rightly milk such a change for all its worth, it would probably require a new edition, major changes to all the Imperial faction books simultaneously... It would be hard to keep that all under wraps and most likely would not happen for awhile, or when GW really saw themselves up s**t creek and needed a massive influx. They still have much use for their IP in its current form to change it any time soon (DOW2 and 40k MMO spring to mind...)

HsojVvad
10-04-2008, 19:57
I was thinking when we were about to come to the climax of the epic battles, and find out who the Emperor really was, a Warp Storm would take him away from space and time and we would never really know if he was the real deal or not.

Hey I know my ideas are far fetched, that is why I am asking for your guys fluff on how this would work. How would your army guys handle the Return of the Emperor, would they believe he was the real deal or an imposter?

Imperialis_Dominatus
10-04-2008, 21:26
If the Emperor comes back, all you damned dirty aliens are absolutely screwed. Haha!


The Imperium would see a massive schism of believers and non-believers, and chances are the Astronomicon would go out, rendering everyone pretty much buggered.

See, I don't get this part. I thought the Emperor, while alive, kept the Astronomican going while running around doing awesome stuff like getting choked to death by Ork Warlords and such. If he is reborn, surely with the power he's gained by being the undivided focus of worship of uncounted trillions of souls and the recipient of millions of sacrificed psyker essence, he'll be able to keep the Big Beam going? If he's not completely insane, that is.

space_kitten
10-04-2008, 21:58
How would your army guys handle the Return of the Emperor, would they believe he was the real deal or an imposter?

Eldar: We knew it was coming, and we have planned for it (Isn't there something in the fluff about the Eldar wanting the Star Child to destroy Slaanesh for them?)

Tyranids: Supersize me!

Imperial Guard: *******, now we have to start polishing our boots and wearing dress uniforms again.

GraemePaul
11-04-2008, 00:06
Be careful what you wish for.

I recall Battletech was given a huge shakeup fluffwise and that nigh on killed off the game. Its not that the changes were bad but it was poorly received by players and as such almost ignored as a result.

It may feel boring but consistancy and slow change can also be good things.

Stad
11-04-2008, 00:21
Be careful what you wish for.

I recall Battletech was given a huge shakeup fluffwise and that nigh on killed off the game. Its not that the changes were bad but it was poorly received by players and as such almost ignored as a result.

It may feel boring but consistency and slow change can also be good things.

The fluff for battletech seemed to hit an impasse with the Clans and went crazy with the jihad that the current timeline. I think creatively, battletech is actually getting better. Sadly, my group is not as hyped to it anymore...

Sadly has not GW said that no more black crusades or similar big galaxy things and just small planet conflicts?

I think sector conflict would be cool, but the nature of the game is quasi nebulous and no real point. No change of territory.

Battletech was cool that territory did shift hands... esp now but then factions would lose interest and gain interest in how well they were doing.

Norsehawk
11-04-2008, 01:21
If the Emperor woke up, there would be an unholy smackdown on the Imperium by him. Considering that they did the very thing he was dead set against, made him their god.

HsojVvad
19-04-2008, 16:58
I wanted to hear peoples idea's for their armies. Come on guys I want to hear your fluff for the above idea. Please, I love reading peoples fluff for thier models.

Templar Ben
19-04-2008, 17:58
The fluff for battletech seemed to hit an impasse with the Clans and went crazy with the jihad that the current timeline. I think creatively, battletech is actually getting better. Sadly, my group is not as hyped to it anymore...

Sadly has not GW said that no more black crusades or similar big galaxy things and just small planet conflicts?

I think sector conflict would be cool, but the nature of the game is quasi nebulous and no real point. No change of territory.

Battletech was cool that territory did shift hands... esp now but then factions would lose interest and gain interest in how well they were doing.

Battletech did very well until the owners decided to cash out. Battletech had a story line that slowly progressed with new books coming out to show the new technology available (with the appropriate costs). When the Clans showed up in 3049 (well the scout group was there in 3025) then it was a major shift. You had new armies with completely different types of equipment. Kurita and Davion were working together (they had a war in 3039). It was a great time to play the games.

All of that was before the internet, and if GW wished to do that now they could have more immediate feedback to make small steps every few months. New sheets on the website and titanic writeups in White Dwarf.


I wanted to hear peoples idea's for their armies. Come on guys I want to hear your fluff for the above idea. Please, I love reading peoples fluff for thier models.

Perhaps you should ask for this to be moved to the fluff forum?

HsojVvad
19-04-2008, 18:22
Perhaps you should ask for this to be moved to the fluff forum?

There is a fluff forum? How did I miss that? Well so many options to choose from I guess I must have missed it. Can this please me moved to the Fluff fourm that I somehow missed? Thanks.

*edit ok where is the fluff forum? I still can't find it*

Templar Ben
19-04-2008, 18:26
http://warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

MadJackMcJack
19-04-2008, 18:58
I wanted to hear peoples idea's for their armies. Come on guys I want to hear your fluff for the above idea. Please, I love reading peoples fluff for thier models.

Ghazghkull would think "Zog me, an oomie dat kan gif me a proppa' fight! TO DA SHIPS YA LOUSY GITZ! IT'S TIME TER GIT DIS WAAAAGH ON DA ROAD!" Which would be quickly followed by a massive Waaaagh steaming towards Terra.

Imperialis_Dominatus
19-04-2008, 22:24
I wanted to hear peoples idea's for their armies. Come on guys I want to hear your fluff for the above idea. Please, I love reading peoples fluff for thier models.

My army would probably flock to him (seeing as they are into the Thorian thing), and if it turns out they really are getting their 'gifts' from the Emperor, join him on a Crusade to reform the Imperium. If it turns out it's Tzeentch, they'll all be killed. But that's how it's always been for them. :p

BDJV
19-04-2008, 22:52
The High Lords of Terra and most of the other Imperial cults would be in for a whole world of hurt.

Imagine how PO'd he'll be after seeing the things that have been done in his name.

I'd love to see the Imperium get gutted for worshiping the Emperor as a god.

nedsta
19-04-2008, 23:00
i hope he goes straight to the bathroom and brushes his teeth after he wakes up,imagine the morning breath after 10,000 years,ewwwww

Kaldaris
20-04-2008, 02:09
Well that's the beauty of Chaos, it's irrelevant if your pathetic corpse god has risen, you cannot harm the dark gods. To destroy Chaos is to destroy all life

HsojVvad
20-04-2008, 03:01
Well that's the beauty of Chaos, it's irrelevant if your pathetic corpse god has risen, you cannot harm the dark gods. To destroy Chaos is to destroy all life

So that is your view then? You can't think that it acctually might be Horus reincarnated? What if the resurected Emperor was Horus? So what you are saying now is your beautiful Chaos is actually fighting one of thier most beloved then?

HsojVvad
05-07-2008, 19:18
So now with the Fluff going a bit forward with the end of the Millenium fast aproaching do you think He will wake up now, or what?

Unamed Consript
06-07-2008, 03:09
the Lion is missing




The lion isnt missing. He is entombed in a rock and is guarded by Ezekiel, the master of the Dark angels librarians, and known of by azrael. However, it is believed that The Lion will return when he is most needed to undo his wrongs.

He is one of the (two or three?) known alive primarchs.

MegaPope
06-07-2008, 03:43
Background-wise, if the Emperor were to 'wake up', it almost certainly wouldn't be as a mortal, no matter how powerful:D.

There's always been IMO a clever analogy about the Emperor and his story - the Father kills the Son and in the process becomes the Holy Spirit. It sort of like a certain famous story;) with a few twists: the Emperor sacrifices himself to cleanse Humanity of it's collective sins (represented by Horus) but in the process is ravaged himself, meaning that incarceration on the Golden Throne could be analogous to a 10,000 - year long crucifixition (ouch - no wonder the big man might be cracking up at this point!)

Given this interpretation, the 41st Millenium Bug that's been discovered in the 'Throne's mechanics (as I like to call this new twist in the storyline) and the flickering of the Astronomicon, could be a sign that the Emperor is about to TRULY ascend - that is to say, finally shed the imprisoning bonds of mortality and become a true god.

THAT would make a paradigm shift in the game world - ATM, Humanity is the only warp-sensitive major species (Tau and Necrontyr don't count) without its own collective and definitive presence in warpspace - they do not have a equivalent to the Tyranid Hive Mind, the Orkoid 'gods' or the Eldar Infinity Circuits (which is where the Eldar psychic collective is currently having to hide, fighting a spiritual guerilla war against Slaanesh/the C'tan;))

Humanity's collective psychic consciousness is currently trapped at a fixed point in material space - namely the Imperial Palace, P.O Box 1, Holy Terra, Sol System, Western Spiral Arm, the Milky Way - and this is currently it's greatest weakness, since its presence is limited to the physical and its influence (represented by the Astronomicon) has finite boundaries. It also means that psychic humans are a great deal of danger to themselves and others, since there is no beneficient warp power to protect them - the Inquisition's methods of 'controlling' and 'regulating' being about as effective as moving a desert one grain of sand at a time.

But what if the 'death' of the Emperor's physical form meant, not his destruction, but his ascendence to the status of a true god? It's an established part of the 40K fluff that gods exist, and that they subsist and thrive on belief and emotions - and the Emperor's devout worshippers number in the hundreds of billions. This would easily place him on a par with the Chaos Gods and the Hive Mind in terms of potential.

It would become rather safer to be a human psyker - the Emperor is there for you in spirit, to shield you from harm unless you actively choose to bring it upon yourself. It would also remove the physical boundaries of the Imperium - the signal of the Astronomicon now being EVERYWHERE equally, except in the most powerful of warpstorms. It could indeed be the catalyst for another great crusade, and it wouldn't necessarily screw up the storyline - it wouldn't signify humanity's 'ascendence' over all others, but the ability to fight back against the galaxy's many dangers on a more even footing, and with a renewed sense of purpose, which is what the current Imperium lacks. It doesn't mean they'd always succeed, but it would put the fire back into their bellies:D.

Mott
06-07-2008, 04:04
:wtf:
@ battletech subconvorsation

Well the clans are pretty much solid Battletech fiction, It was the Jihad, (superweapons kinda defeat the purpose of mechs) that really messed things up.

And yeah planets changed hands every year with the massive incursions, especially by Davion and later the Clans!

It was really Wizkidz that put Battletech on the back shelf though.
(Dark age:mad:)

@ megapope

I like the idea of the emperor finally becoming a true god

Imperium could get some new nifty psychic powers, maybe an Avatar of the Emperor! :wtf:

Would he have his own realm of the warp, or something similar? like his own realm where all the dead soldiers are like his... holy demon equivilants? It would make sense considering chaos has this, and the eldar evidently DID.

Unamed Consript
06-07-2008, 04:12
:wtf:
I like the idea of the emperor finally becoming a true god

Imperium could get some new nifty psychic powers, maybe an Avatar of the Emperor! :wtf:

Would he have his own realm of the warp, or something similar? like his own realm where all the dead soldiers are like his... holy demon equivilants? It would make sense considering chaos has this, and the eldar evidently DID.

i with ya on that one!;)


But if the Emperor became a god then the guardsmen would no longer be able to shout "For the Emperor!!"
And so they would be unmotivated and not care anymore thus resulting in the imperium of man collapsing and them all being killed. [/sarcasm]

Wrathiel
06-07-2008, 04:37
Theres an old series of books called "inquisition war". It has been a long time since I read it, and it may not be official fluff any more...

But at one point the main character gets access to the golden throne... the body on the throne is mad and babbles nonsense, while the actual soul of the emperor is scattered around the universe helping humanity on a very small (possibly large?) scale.

It has been years since I read it, so I cant be sure what I remember is correct. But it was an interesting book, and as far as I know, the only 40k book to directly feature the emperor.

A good read if you can find a copy.

*edit* Just remembered... it also had squats in it...

Condottiere
06-07-2008, 04:40
But if the Emperor became a god then the guardsmen would no longer be able to shout "For the Emperor!!"
And so they would be unmotivated and not care anymore thus resulting in the imperium of man collapsing and them all being killed. [/sarcasm]I noted the sarcasm, but not how far it extended.

Guardsmen can shout with even more religious fervour and conviction, "For the God-Emperor!"

MegaPope
06-07-2008, 19:25
Theres an old series of books called "inquisition war". It has been a long time since I read it, and it may not be official Fluff any more...

This is Ian Watson's trilogy - Inquisitor, Harlequin and Chaos Child, from way back in the late 80s. These, and his one-off book Space Marine (one of the characters from which appears in Chaos Child), are IMO still some of the best 40K fiction ever written.

If I have a criticism about the trilogy, it's that the second and third books drift off on a tangent about Inquisitor Draco's personal obsessions, and offer less about the mysteries of the Imperium itself. However, 'Inquisitor' and 'Space Marine' are cracking stories.

The scene you're thinking of occurs at the end of 'Inquisitor' when Draco, after spending quite literally several years just infiltrating Earth and travelling to the Imperial Palace, makes it into the Emperor's throne room and is granted an 'audience'. The resulting revelations - that parts of the Emperor's physical mind are planning a terrifying scheme that OTHER parts are not even aware of(!) shakes his faith to its very foundations and leads to him going rogue. The subtext is that being chained to the mortal realm is doing the Emperor and the Imperium no good at all, and that the Golden Throne and the Astronomican are a shackle rather than a blessing.

And, thinking about it, isn't that what the Throne actually is? For thousands of years, humanity's brightest and best (psykers) have been systematically fed into a machine who's sole purpose is to tie a divine being to the limitations of the mortal universe? No wonder some people have chosen to interpret this as some kind of Tzeentchian plot! The fluff on who authorised and built the Throne is rather sketchy, and it's difficult to determine how much of a direct hand the Emperor had in that decision, given that it was taken AFTER he'd been crippled.

Rogal Dorn: "Worry not, Your Majesty. The Golden Throne stands ready for you. Though your body is ruined, you will rule eternally."

The Emperor (crippled, in life-pod): "No...Dorn, please....you don't...understand..."

Dorn (genuflecting): "Of course, sire. I can never comprehend your pain, but I will do my best to alleviate it."

The Emperor (as his life-pod is being lowered into the Throne): "No...(cough)...I can't...this...is all a deception..."

Dorn: "If there is deception, we shall thwart it. You will rule from Terra forever."

The Emperor (now frantic): "No, NO...this isn't my destiny... I have to di..."

(Remaining words cut off as blast doors thump closed)

Dorn (bowing, sure of a job well done): "Rule well, sire."

;)

Cheesolith
07-07-2008, 15:25
I think that when he wakes up he will first have the Custodes brief him up on what's the galaxy has been up to in his absence before making his presence known to anybody else. Then he would outlaw the eclessiarchy and most likely the inquisition as well.

Spektre
07-07-2008, 15:54
I've read the inquisition war trilogy (great series) and I thought that the Eldar created the golden throne? If this is true could it be that their plan is to one day use the Emperor as a sacrifice just as the psykers are a sacrifice as a plan to destroy Slaneesh?

ankara halla
07-07-2008, 17:03
The Golden Throne was only built by the Eldar if you want to go by the re-write version of the Horus Heresy by Sabertooth Games, that basically re-invented the whole thing, contradicting practically everything in the established canon.

The Inqusition War -trilogy followed the establisehed fluff of the time, in which the Eldar had nothing to do with the Golden Throne.