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theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 22:01
Now I didnt know this before today.....and I found out the hard way.
The hard way being, the guy declared a charge on me, I stood and then he proceeded to flank me despite being well into my front charge arc.

I had a look at the rules as I (rightly so) thought he was talking utter rubbish.
Lo and behold....the rule is there and I swore rather lot in my head.

Now...does the detachment have to reach the flank as in, be flat with the flank to actually be able to charge the flank.
Or do they get the free alignment..as in the just have to clip the corner of your unit and they get to swing round 90 degree's or so into you?

Seemed a tad unfair.

Falkman
10-04-2008, 22:07
They just have to clip your corner and can swing around, should be a picture of it and all in the detachment rules (at least there was in the 6th ed Empire book).

xragg
10-04-2008, 22:13
What's even worse is most empire players I see rarely make good use of their detachments which is by far their greatest asset.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 22:13
The book did seem to show that......
ah well,
Roll on the new dark elves where I get hatred and armour piercing and +1 attack on the charge and all manner of hellishly rediculously powerful stuff.

Falkman
10-04-2008, 22:15
The detachment rule isn't all that powerful tbh, detachments are not hard to take care of.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 22:24
You'de be surprised how difficult it can be when your a dark elf and the empire guy got the first turn.

Falkman
10-04-2008, 22:27
Unless he has detachments numbering up to 15 and above you should just be able to shoot them a little and remove their ability to cancel your ranks, or if in real trouble, just charge them and run through, parent units and other detachments can't countercharge when you charge a detachment.

luckyguy
10-04-2008, 22:30
Knowing is half the battle. Now that you are aware of the rule (and tactic) you can make an effort to avoid/nulify it.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 22:31
I know they cant...but both my bolt throwers were removed, and my magic was made completely ineffective, plus he was refusing to fail panic tests (as usual).
My dark riders had been gunned down and my cold one knights werent in any position to charge his detachments.
Neither was my hydra.

Malorian
10-04-2008, 22:33
The detachment rule isn't all that powerful tbh, detachments are not hard to take care of.

Are you mad? The detachment rules are insanely good, and if use by a good general, can easily pick your army apart.

Basically at no extra cost you get units that:
-can stand and shoot while you charge the parent unit
-counter charge and take away your ranks
-co-charge and mess you up (like in the OP case)
-don't cause panic

Sure you can charge the detachments instead of the parent unit, but what do you do if they flee? Now you're being hit by the parent unit!

I have no idea why there aren't more armies out there with multiples of 20 swordmen with full command w/ a detachment of 10 halbrediers and 10 shooters (take your pick).

xragg
10-04-2008, 22:34
Detachments should only be 3 wide and set an inch further back then their parent units so they can never be charged by a RnF.

Falkman
10-04-2008, 22:45
Are you mad? The detachment rules are insanely good, and if use by a good general, can easily pick your army apart.

Basically at no extra cost you get units that:
-can stand and shoot while you charge the parent unit
-counter charge and take away your ranks
-co-charge and mess you up (like in the OP case)
-don't cause panic

Sure you can charge the detachments instead of the parent unit, but what do you do if they flee? Now you're being hit by the parent unit!

I never said they were bad rules, but I do not think they are too good or inbalanced either.
They are flavourful rules for an otherwise pretty bland army, and a somewhat competent player can always find ways to circumvent or neutralise detachments without too much hassle.

soots
10-04-2008, 23:13
They wheel for free once they hit your unit.

Make sure your units are supported against empire

Detachments have negatives:

a) often give away more free combat points depending on enemy
b) empire have problems with realestate, detachments take up a lot of room and make it harder to fit units in range of the general.

Detachments are cool, but empire troops are really poor and it blunts this awesome ability.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 23:17
Empire troops may be "really poor" but he had a warrior priest in his big ranked unit and my elves are t3 with 5+ saves on the flanks and are hit on a 4+.
So my "superior" stats dont really come into it too well.....

My army has difficulties with dealing with empire simply due to the amount of shooting he can throw at me, plus he's hurling 3 bound power level 4 spells a turn to stop his units from going anywhere.

Another question.
Can an arch lector cast the same prayer twice per phase?

Atrahasis
10-04-2008, 23:23
No, he can't.

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 23:26
Okay so the empire guy is cheating...works for me.
I shall call him on it next time.

soots
11-04-2008, 03:09
If he has a big character in unit and has detachments, dont expect to win with lonely unsupported elves. Thats an unfair comparison. Perhaps you should attack this unit with something else

theunwantedbeing
11-04-2008, 03:49
Assuming I wasnt flanked I had a reasonable chance of winning that combat.
Or at least drawing, or not losing by much and winning on the subsequent rounds.

Had I known of the rule I'de have been a little further back and a little further to the left(nearer a nearby building so that his unit could not have flanked me,which would also have put his arch lector out of combat with my spearmen).

I have learnt my lesson at any rate ^_^

soots
11-04-2008, 07:25
Thas good to hear. Id rather lose and learn something than win convincingly.

warlord hack'a
11-04-2008, 08:41
charitos are gold versus detachments, as is light shooting. Okay so this guy fielded a lot of artillery and magic as well, maybe that was more the problem than the detachments..

luckyguy
11-04-2008, 13:23
If some of the shooting he is throwing at you is from war machines you can use Harpies to deal with them.

Mercules
11-04-2008, 13:28
The local Empire player has yet to truly consider the detachment rules and I for one am not going to enlighten her. Detachments are one of the great things Empire has going for it.

theunwantedbeing
11-04-2008, 15:44
He has enough shooting to deal with harpies.
I was more considering using some shades instead to scout ahead and lay down some supporting fire and act as an irritant as well as march blockers possibly.