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View Full Version : Slaying a vampire: Fact or Fiction?



Tee
11-04-2008, 10:46
Hello fellow generals,

While there are countless threads/posts about new VC list, I found most of them being just whining how powerful/strong/overpowered. While up to some point these are funny / interesting pots, it start to get (really) boring. We all know why they are so powerful. Would be more interesting to see how we can defeat them, and actually how you defeated them.

I would like to talk here about a particular tactic to defeat VC - slaying their general!

Why I I'm interested in this particular tactic? Because I think it has some advantages, tho I don't think you can easily achieve this (especially with all armies).

The main reason I think this is a strong tactic to go for is:

- going for a blitz tactic is good, as VC are one of the best (if not the best) army for long term/ attrition war. Also is that kind of simple plan, easily to put in practice.

- killing their general remove their strongest CC character / caster in game, severely reducing their efficiency in their strongest game phases (magic/CC) - point wise is almost 25% of his army.

- the crumble rule (which partially can be countered by VC players by deploying Vampires characters/units among their units), nevertheless make their army crumble, move slowly

Can you really break an army of VC by slaying their general? Can you slay the general ? Or it is just a myth?

Interesting to see, would be your experience in battle when you tried / achieve slaying their lord.

1. How you tried to kill /or killed his general?
2. How the VC general countered this?
3. Did you kill it in the end? Have you won the game because of this (or the game was already won)?

As a particular question, would be really interesting to see how many time (from the total of games played vs VC) you/we succeed to slay the VC lord.

T.

_Lucian_
11-04-2008, 11:01
Killing the general can be suprisingly easy, there are often 3 tpys of vamp general:

Killy death; Mounted/on foot in big nasty unit of death
Magic Death; No much armour all about spell casting
All round; a mix of both

I personally play BoC/HoC for the majority of the time and sit confidenatly behind a M6 or higher army. My tactic is simply smash into the unit carrying his general and paste it. If he is heavily armoured you bait/block him with hounds,spawn,maruader horse then flank with mins with great weapons/Dragon ogres/Chosen knights. Result is most commonly 1 dead general

If hes a casty type he will often be in a bunker unit. Answer? hit the unit in front with everything, unless its a 40 strong unit of zombies you can get through in 2 combat phases (or well my chariot/Chosen knights can) while protecting your hammer units flanks with redirecting hounds. End result is by turn 3-4 you are facing his "bunker" unit and its your turn to charge :). If there are zombies in the way punch through his flank unit

Thats my tactic, im sure it has it flaws but so far its worked. There are numerous others but im sure people will take glee in telling them to you. From what ive learned: BIG NASTY DEATH units rock against weak boney ones, with the correct application of movement and blocking

Arguleon-veq
11-04-2008, 14:44
Well, Ive played them once so far and massacred an experienced general with my O&G.

I dont think killing the general is really a sound idea, even characters designed for casting can get 2+/4++ on foot, with the sword of might. That is REALLY hard to deal with at T5. Plus if you have the character to deal with that, you will not have the power to deal with his magic phase.

I found that an army with solid magic defense is a good base, then you take out his weaker vamps which allows you to dominate the magic phase, with that you can use movement spells to outmanouver his army [along witha bit of fast cav], especially with many of his vamps dead which will stop marching. When you can engage their units from the flank or rear they crumble way too quick to be replenished, especially with you having taken down some of their casting power.

For the lord and his unit, just tie them up or lead them off, dont try and take them out untill you can bring your full force to bear on them.

Braad
11-04-2008, 14:54
Have you ever seen the movie "from dusk till dawn"? There they kill vampires with a hydraulic jackhammer with a wooden stake in it. Might be worth the try...

Also, I see goblin bosses flying across the field on wolves with the one hit wunda in one hand and the tricksy trinket in the other. You'll never know if it will actually work, but if he manages to hit him with a couple of his attacks, then the S10 and no ward saves allowed should do the rest. And if it didn't work... well, gobbo's are expendable :)

Urgat
11-04-2008, 15:01
And if it didn't work... well, gobbo's are expendable :)

Yeah, gobbos are expandable, but not when they're bosses.

Malorian
11-04-2008, 15:14
then you take out his weaker vamps which allows you to dominate the magic phase, with that you can use movement spells to outmanouver his army [along witha bit of fast cav], especially with many of his vamps dead which will stop marching.

Definetly the way to go. They are so much easier to kill it's not funny.

I haven't lost my lord so far, but I have lost my hero vampires and it really hurt.

Leogun_91
11-04-2008, 17:02
Yeah, gobbos are expandable, but not when they're bosses.

Around 30 pts is expendable I mean my Dragonslayers are expandable and they cost more.

Urgat
11-04-2008, 17:09
Not when you're playing gobs and you need the Ld :p

I think my "tactic" would be to just throw everything I can against the weaker casters while playing around with the main enemy units with my wolves. The only "little" problem with that tactic would be that, of course, there's probably a few terror causing things in VC armies, and my wolves tend to not like them >>

Mercules
11-04-2008, 17:13
Yes, but considering your point costs for Heroes there are usually more where that came from.

Mouldsta
11-04-2008, 17:24
I like the "little noble who liked to go pop", especially against vampire lords with red fury;
It's a DE noble, on a dark steed, with the black amulet (any ward saves you pass = one wound with no save on opponent).

Charge him straight into the vampire and declare your attacks on him (inevitably doing nothing). When the vamp rolls a ton of attacks at you (which will hit and wound), you get to make a load of ward saves - if 3 of them come up as 5+ then you have yourself a dead general.

WalachHarkon
11-04-2008, 18:36
Yay! My first post! :)

I've only had a few games using the new Vampire Counts. The first of which was against my friend, the first time for him using the new High Elves. It started out great but a few unlucky moments meant the end for me on turn 3. First, my Cairn Wraiths failed to run down a fleeing Teclis by 1", then Korhil on a lion chariot managed to kill my general (I hadn't studied the HE book long enough to remember he had killing blow). It really did spell the end for me, as I was playing a Ghoulkin themed army. I was still able to kill Korhil with my varghulf with some very lucky rolls, but it wasn't enough. But since then I've learned to protect my general more.

Urgat
11-04-2008, 19:19
Yes, but considering your point costs for Heroes there are usually more where that came from.

It's not because they're cheaper that we are allowed more ;) (we used to, but not anymore). So your gob characters, you cherish them, and you keep them behind, out of harm :p If you're playing orcs too, you don't take goblin bosses anyway.

Von Wibble
11-04-2008, 22:03
I have faced 6th ed vamps 4 times - massacred once, 2 massacres in my favour and 1 draw.

In both the massacres I killed his general. Both times with killing blow.

With high elves - he had manfred with 9 black knights. I charged a unit of dragon princes in turn 2. They killed a few knights but unsurprisingly fled througha mix of bad saves and CR.

However, I had moved my prince and swordmasters to behind the dragon princes as I expected them to flee.

The black knights had the banner of burning hatred and had to pursue - and obligingly they went into the swordmasters. Just to add insult to injury the swordmasters had standard of balance - nullifying the panic check for dragon princes fleeing through them, and the hatred effects.

Prince was lined up with Manfred (achieved in movement phase) and struck. White sword + Talisman of Loec. I'm sure someone can work out P(killing blow) exactly but it seems quite high to me. A 6 to wound later and manfredwas daed in 1 go.

However, even if he hadn't been killed, it would have been a safe bet that the prince would have got a couple of wounds. With a good save he wuold probably have survived even with Loec effect. The swordmasters then had Cr on their side and killed a lot of black knights - enough to make manfred die to CR without need of KB.

The lesson - if a vampire is with cavalry, gradual wearing out of the unit can really nullify the threat. Most armies have ways to counter even the nasty red fury dreadlance man with such strategies.

The other massacre was with wood elves - a wardancer noble got lucky- hit once and then rolled 6 to wound. More fool him for only taking the flayed hauberk for protection.

I strongly recommend CavCuir or Carstein ring for any vampire lord based on this - killing bow is just a little too deadly to them otherwise.

Mercules
12-04-2008, 02:56
It's not because they're cheaper that we are allowed more ;) (we used to, but not anymore). So your gob characters, you cherish them, and you keep them behind, out of harm :p If you're playing orcs too, you don't take goblin bosses anyway.

Well, it is not so much that you can take more, but you can AFFORD to take more and throw one away. Goblin Big boss on a Wolf with a One Hit Wundar and a Brimstone Bauble is 87 points. He makes a rather interesting bomb.

Conotor
12-04-2008, 11:47
I killed a vamp general with crumble from a stegg, carno, terradon, swarm, and jsod attack.

txamil
12-04-2008, 19:29
Am I mistaken in thinking the Wood Elves must be thrashing VCs regularly?

_Lucian_
12-04-2008, 19:44
Im not sure why you would come to that conclusion? more importantly why its relevant to this thread? unless of course they have a magic item which reads "kills all vampires on sight"

English 2000
13-04-2008, 00:15
I killed a vamp general with crumble from a stegg, carno, terradon, swarm, and jsod attack.

That's because I charged in, rather than hanging back to get a guaranteed draw ;)

Anukex
13-04-2008, 06:34
Ya my Skaven have had a kill or two... thank you cannon and ah unlucky roll of a 1. Poof where da vampire general go? he he he

VC Doke
13-04-2008, 08:10
Ya, anything with Killing Blow is a huge threat to a VC general. Due to the lack of ward save choices: 3 from anything, 1 from missiles, 1 regen banner; I have a hard time equipping my general with ward saves without swapping for offense.