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Tonedogbf110
11-04-2008, 11:29
anyone got any goood advice on how to deal with High elves with Orcs and Gobbos?

I know my opponent will be fielding heavily core based troops, all with bows.
I need to get across the table fast and get in close, but they also have ASF.

are there any good ways to get in intact?

I played this guy last week and lost horribly. as a result I doubt he will change his tactics much.

I will be fielding:

Wyvern and Boss
Big Boss BSB.
4 Shamans
2 big orc blocks with FC
2 big night goblin blocks
Wolf riders 2x - 5
Spider riders 2x - 5
5 Boar riders
2 chariots
Doom Diver
Giant

I cant comment on what my oponent will field, he has over 6000pts of units to choose from.

thx in advance.

bluu
11-04-2008, 12:29
I'd try to his his core troops in the flank. That way, not only do you have him beat by 4-5 in CR before the beating commences, but his spears cannot strike in ranks against the sides and rear. Thus, he gets at the most half a dozen attacks before you rip him a new one.

There are three more things that we High Elf players are truly afraid of.

1. Shooting.
Our tropps mostly have average to below average armor and T3. And they are expensive. Even a gblin with a short bow posseses a threat to anything but cavalry. Also, you get dirt cheap war machines. I'd try a couple of rock lobbers and some bolt throwers. Whatever they hit they will get their points back. Also, facing half a dozen war machines, some with big blasts will scare any High Elf player. I do realize that you do not have that many warmachines, just take it as advice for future purchases.

2. Destructive magic.
High Elves can pretty easily shut down a mage or two. Not four though. Unless the mages get at least two Drain Magics in, you're going to be pounding their ranks pretty hard. You have som really good spells that can really hurt the often quite small units of High Elves. I would stick some Magic mushrooms into the mix to be able to truly pressure the HIgh Elf player. It's a bit of a risk, you might end up with a frenzied, stupid goblin shaman who has to tae on an entire block iof swordmasters by himself. He might just blow them of the surface of the world too. Risky, yeah, but to be honest, isn't that part of playing greenskins? I just have to ask, how many ponts are you using? Since I see you have at least 6 hero slots and a lord slot taken, that could only fit into 3-4000 points.

3. Impact hits.
Whenever I see a chariot 12-13" away from my lines, I say I silent prayer that my bolt throwers will be accurate. With their impact hits they'll often kill all the elves that can hit back. Remember, ASF goes AFTER impact hits. Killing 3-4 with impact hits means no one hits back. Against small units of elite infantry, that is devestating. Add in a wound or two from the crew and boars and you're looking at breaking those elves almost 2/3 of times. Unless they are White Lions, then you're screwed.
You also have Fanatics at your disposal. These guys are great, as units can't attack them in CC, and they do high strength impact hits. Just watch out for eagles and fast cavalry luring them out. If your can shield them from that, you're set for some fanatic destruction.

Oh, and never, ever charge elite infantry in the front. They'll eat your almost armorless greenskins up with their high strength attacks. Their flanks often contain 2-3 models only, which means that they can't kill enough of your models to tip the battle in their favour.

_Lucian_
11-04-2008, 14:00
Do you mind me asking what points you are playing at? You have the hero/lord allocations of a 3k list, but your army seems the size of a 2k? im alittle confused. If that is a 3k list is extremely small, if it is a 2k list you have 6 chars?

If its a small 3k then you might want to consider more units, also it will effect my response i would know how many elves to expect. Also if hes not likely to change his list would you give an over view of what he fields

Tonedogbf110
17-04-2008, 14:57
I was playing 3k.

I did lose but it wasnt so bad as the first time I faced off.

i got both chariots in and a couple of other units.
the git fielded a dragon.

I used screening quite well and got most of my units up front by turn 2. then disaster as 3 units failed animosity in the turn I was supposed to make my major frontal.

I managed to sneak spider riders and wolf riders round the sides and flank charge but they got no support due to the bad animosity rolls.

the rock lobba worked a treat and killed lots. the doom diver melted down on turn one on a misfire. all in all this guy has never lost with his elves, i forgot to mention he was a GW store manager for 10 years and I am a humble newbie player with 6 games under my belt!

I managed to hurt him more than anyone else has ever in this game.

Arguleon-veq
17-04-2008, 15:09
Chariots are a must.

Use throw away units like Squigs, just whack them in the middle of the enemies most expensive troops and let them get broke to cause Havok.

Lots of Fanatics.

Orcs and Gobs have very effective anti magic, so just try and stop him getting through with his spells. Staff of Sorcery, Staff of Sneaky Stealin and the Spirit Totem.

Get your Goblins to engage his small elite units where they may win due to static combat res [especially after fanatics] whilst you make your Orcs take on his Spears where they will have a much harder time racking up the kills.

HE are a horrid army for O&G to face though. I have 2 Batreps against them in the Batrep board [Waaagh Snotgob] if that will help at all.

Mireadur
17-04-2008, 15:58
1st of all, it sounds like if there was some kind of urgency in beating the guy. Doesnt seem the best approach to the game :p Now with some ideas..

It appears like your opponent plays in a very static manner, leaving the moving for you since he's got the upper hand with missiles (and he will strike 1st anyway), this is better for an orc in fact, i find orcs feed the best on gun lines. and at 1st sight doesnt speak too well about your opponent skills.

You would need NON fast cavalry goblin wolf riders to eliminate his archer line. If he deploys in a single line it will be very easy for you doing this. Instead 4 units of 5 riders id go for 2 units of 10 (with shields so they get 4+ armor save) once you neutralize his archer threat you will be behind his lines and able to pick either the bolt throwers or flanking his strong infantry units.
A goblin boss for the cav could help a lot.
Remember that you need units of goblin riders consisting in 10 models, because he strikes first and he will likely recover the rank bonus if you try to flank him with just 5 models.
Forget the bows and get only spears n' shields.

Always include your goblin bolt throwers. 2 of them are a must, target priority will be his dragons, chariots, then cavalry specially if he fields them in 2 ranks and swordmasters.

Getting your characters (shamans since you include lots) on the chariots will save you some special slots while making the shaman a hard target to aim (need 6's to impact the character on the chariot with missiles).

It is a good approach to deploy your army in 2 lines, with the goblins in the front and the orcs behind. Equip the night goblins with bows and get them close enough his ranks to force his charge. Just flee the goblins through your strong orc line and receive the charge with your boyz.
Your boyz should go for the cheapest (shield and choppa) and ensure number superiority.
Along with the night goblins archers you should use fanatics, when you do this, make sure all the fanatics go the way of his strongest units (swordmasters 1st, white lions 2nd)
Of course he will try to pull the fanatics out earlier. kill them with your own bows if they become more of an annoyance than a help.
Deploy the goblins in lines of 10+ wide.

Keep the chariots behind the lines, they are not big targets so he wont shoot at them until you move up front for the charge.

Field your goblin cavalry whereever is needed to take on the archer line and the boar cavalry in the flanks.

As i said before, bolt throwers are maybe the best war machines for O&G, but loading up on rock lobbers will help you a lot too.

The giant... His low T makes him pretty useless against elves. As much he will soak some shooting, leaving your wyvern more liberty of action.. Up to you is the consideration if 205 points are a good price for a decoy or not.

Black orcs, you see how overpriced they are when comparing them to elf infantry, in fact the only target suitable for them would be the phoenix guard or spearmen.. Id go for normal boyz on this one and save the special slots for war machines and boars (as you've done in your list).

Cant think on anything else right now. Hope it's of any use.

Crazy Harborc
18-04-2008, 01:29
When you give your gobbo fast cav that 4+ armour save......they still move as fast as without.:D I always give mine bows AND spears.;) Try for flank attacks/charges.

For me, my BOs have worked well against the new improved 7th Edition HEs. I do go for the win. Most of all I go for the Waaaagh, the green tide crossing the table and crashing into those pointy eared HEs.

I try to get within range for my fanatics to nail his Sword Masters. I try to pick a spot on his front at a flank.....concentrate enough forces to overwhelm that flank. Don't send that giant out alone. Still it can draw shooting away from your better units.