PDA

View Full Version : New 5th Tau Jetpack addition.



AshenFang
11-04-2008, 12:59
Anyone else take note that Tau Jetpacks can now make full use of Heavy weapons now on the move?

I'm just a starting Tau player, but to me this seems pretty handy. Though seems to make the Adv. Stabilisation System redundant, but I don't really think that's a bad thing, heh.

Now Stealth suits can use their Marker lights without having to sit around for the turn, which to me, seems to help them a lot. Mobility seems to be fairly important for the unit, at least from my perspective, just coming into the army.

And also, do Marker Drones become "Jump Infantry (Jetpack)" when attached to Stealth Suits and Battle suits? As they are labeled "As Owner".

Souchan
11-04-2008, 13:04
This has indeed been noted before, I myself am pondering many a Stealth Team marker drones idea's.

Adv. S.S is still not redundant as the only unit I ever use it on anyway doesn't have jetpacks(Broadsides).

Where mobility is concerned, I find it important for our entire army, as well we have to do something to stay out of CC while peppering the enemy with shots :)

Concerning marker drones: all drones unit type becomes that of the unit they are a part of(or something along those lines).

Not sure where the last topic about this disappeared to, but it hasn't been discussed in a while^^

ehlijen
11-04-2008, 13:53
yep, it means that marker drones might finally actually be used at their scary points cost.

Remoah
11-04-2008, 13:56
We at the non-tau warseer communit have decreed that this civilised discussion is not fit for a warhammer nerd forum. We henceforth present you with 8 pages of people crying and complaining about overpowered Tau.
Thankyou.

~~~~~

On another hand. Sounds good, as long as it's balanced. Marker Drones i've never seen used so i didn't know they existed. Anything that allows more obscure units to be used is better IMHO... winds the game up a bit better.

tarrin
11-04-2008, 14:30
Overpowered tau? i see you your 8 pages of crying and complaining and raise you 11 pages of of tau players with utter hatred of the propsed 5th rules. heheheh.

Tarrin

4th win stats with tau P22 w 20/D1/L1
5th win stats with tau P13 w 0/D1/L12
Same list

Rajden
11-04-2008, 16:55
To bad that Sniper drones move like infantry an don't use jet pack rules...

Yarick Zan
11-04-2008, 17:03
I will be partly glad if this is true. Be nice to see some good coming out of 5th for the Tau.

Mandragola
11-04-2008, 17:23
Well there's the buff to skimmer toughness* but the nerf to JSJ is a problem.

It will be interesting to see if marker drones actually get used now. These, and the stealth suit markerlight, are the only things affected by this change unless some new units appear. I can see them being used to help broadsides and hammerheads target other people's fast moving skimmers. Sounds good.

*Yes, skimmers are tougher in 5th.

Souchan
11-04-2008, 17:36
Overpowered tau? i see you your 8 pages of crying and complaining and raise you 11 pages of of tau players with utter hatred of the propsed 5th rules. heheheh.

Tarrin

4th win stats with tau P22 w 20/D1/L1
5th win stats with tau P13 w 0/D1/L12
Same list

I see 2 problems with that being an issue at the moment.

1st being the fact of "same list", using a list designed for other rules would likely cause problems(though without seeing the list I couldn't give 100% analysis on the matter)

2nd being, well, we quite simply do not have the 5th rules yet. We have a PDF and while I do not doubt it has many a accurate point, revisions of it have already been made mention of in the rumour control thread, who knows what else changed.

You might wanna change that to

4th win stats with tau P22 w 20/D1/L1
5th rumours win stats with tau P13 w 0/D1/L12
5th win stats with tau w 0/D0/L0

In my humble opinion that is. Though I don't disagree that we will have some trouble with the speedier adversaries, many other rules still help us and who knows what boosts we'll get later :D

AshenFang
11-04-2008, 21:00
Well there's the buff to skimmer toughness* but the nerf to JSJ is a problem.

Still coming in new to the Tau, what are JSJ?

And did the PDF have any more negative or possitive effects on the Tau?

Verte
11-04-2008, 22:23
Well there's the buff to skimmer toughness* but the nerf to JSJ is a problem.

What is the nerf to JSJ? The pdf i have describes jet packs the same as under 4th, with the exception of now being able to fire heavy weapons as if stationary.

Souchan
11-04-2008, 22:29
Still coming in new to the Tau, what are JSJ?

And did the PDF have any more negative or possitive effects on the Tau?

Jump Shoot Jump

It had a few, but as rumour control none are certain. One advantage is that nothing except LOS blocking terrain blocks our LOS, so area terrain doesn't stop us anymore. Screening units and area terrain providing cover saves gives our marker lights a boost and with now even more marker lights we can start some crazy stuff(dropping 4+ to 5+ (or 6+ if really desperate) is a very sweet deal).

Our Rail head subminitions no longer miss, though now only get a direct hit on 5+ but our average scatter is 3 inches, or 2 inches with a marker light BS boost(and there's only a 1 in 12 chance it'll scatter more than 6/5 inches). Ordnance templates no longer having partials is also the win for our submuntions. I think with upcoming Orks(and well any large squad 4+ or worse save that is) it'll be one of our prime weapons against them combined with marker lights, it'll punch really big holes in their large squads as long as we can keep it alive^^


And the nerf of JSJ refers to the tactic, not their ability. Area terrain no longer blocks LOS so we can't hide them as easy anymore. On the + side we can give them cover saves, hopefully shielding a bit from the damage of indirect fire.

Seriously though, these are just the prospects, who knows what'll be the same come july.

Deathraven
12-04-2008, 05:19
Nothing to hide behind = dead tau. :( Hopefully they will fix the are terrain rules before they release 5th ed. In the pdf they look a little... rushed.

RSIxidor
12-04-2008, 22:03
Another sort of nerf to the jump-shoot-jump is the run rule. If enemies can close faster, then there's less shots to get off.

Orks look very scary in Fifth.

chaos0xomega
12-04-2008, 22:13
I still dont get why everyone complains about area terrain not blocking LOS anymore. Was everyone except me playing games where the only terrain WAS area terrain?

Dooks Dizzo
13-04-2008, 00:46
There are actually people who think the Tau are over powered? In real life?

I don't play them mind you but I play against them all the time and have yet to have an issue beating them.

How many Tau went to the 'Ard Boyz finals? Big fat bagel.

On another note: Marker Drones that don't suck! go blue bloods!

newbis
13-04-2008, 01:53
I'm thinking it's the kill point scenario that will really make suits suck. 2 Kill Points for killing a monat is fail IMO. If the terrain rules stay the way they are I'm wondering just how useful suits are going to be at all come 5th. :(

Mandragola
13-04-2008, 02:11
There are actually people who think the Tau are over powered? In real life?

A tau player won the UK GT this year. I've done consistently well in GTs with my own tau, though the best I managed was 2nd in a heat once. Never below top third using the army since 3rd ed. They are a top tier army, if played well.

I'm not that despondent about tau in 5th. Suits clearly suffer, but most other stuff is improved. Something is going to have to be dropped anyway for you to fit in more troops, and it looks like the suits are going to get it. I'm not sure what you put in to replace the missile pods and plasma you lose; more pulse rifles I guess.

Kroot, which I already use lots of, look like they will be pretty amazing now that woods give a 4+ cover save. Seems like they have a 3+ cover save, a gun a lot like a bolter and can infiltrate. 7 point marines anyone?... Ok, I guess they aren't quite marines, but you get my point ;).

Fire warriors in a devilfish are quite significantly improved I think. The devilfish is a bit tougher and they can now bring marker drones with them if they want to. Marker drones are still weirdly pricey though. The fish itself has lost the ability to throw out 7 strength 5 shots a turn, but you can drop its points cost by miles to make up for that. You will need to if you want to afford a marker drone...

You will still probably want to take 3 heavy support most of the time I think. Railheads are pretty good both for anti-horde and tank killing so I might go back to using 3 of them. Broadsides are also good but are no use at all against a horde. Which you take will probably depend on metagame issues.

Dooks Dizzo
13-04-2008, 04:19
I give you props for doing well with the Tau Mand, I'm not trying to take away from Tau player, I just cannot fathom people who would say they are 'over powered'.

The Tau winning the UK GT this year is a first. Tau, right along with IG and Daemonhunters consistantly fair poorly in competitive play. If 5th ed helps them out a bit I am all for it.

Souchan
13-04-2008, 12:18
I give you props for doing well with the Tau Mand, I'm not trying to take away from Tau player, I just cannot fathom people who would say they are 'over powered'.



Some people will call anything that gives them trouble overpowered. It's one of the easiest excuses in the book and sounds nicer than "I couldn't comprehend the different play style and my inability to adapt got my butt handed to me"

airmang
13-04-2008, 14:31
Nothing to hide behind = dead tau. :( Hopefully they will fix the are terrain rules before they release 5th ed. In the pdf they look a little... rushed.


they can now hide behind their vehicles...

BrianGeneral
14-04-2008, 11:56
they can now hide behind their vehicles...
No point to do so unless you have enough vehicles to shield all the suits after your Shooting Phase.

And as a long Tau player I also agree that Tau isn't overpowered in every aspect. FWs are strongest? Railheads are unkillable? Suits are annoying? They aren't really giving a glance to their actual combat efficiency.

Vivioius
14-04-2008, 19:35
Given that troops also block line of sight you can now utilise a meatshield of kroot/firewariors , jump over them , shoot , and then jump back keeping your expensive units nearly untouchable. Now with the fall to ground/pinning thing it can make it even better!

tarrin
14-04-2008, 23:29
Troops block on a 4+ which is ok for the first turn until your low toughness, low Ld troops are killed or run away. And i know what will be a good idea. i will voluntarily pin my mobile guns for a whole turn in which the enemy can run and me with no reply (and still shoot at me, where i can a minor bonus to save). Or i will hide behind my 100 point tank, that will get shot down.

sigh. Non-Tau players have always hated JsJ but they have to realise that its really important for us. Our kit is expensive for its survivability, and the two developed tactics you see (gun line, and Mech) have been developed to increase the survivability.

If the rules stay as they are the tau will be on the receiving end.

I have played the games (14 playtests, 0/1/13 W/D/L) and tried all the suggested tactics here to no avail, simply because our strengths lie in mobility (the ability to stay away from enemy H2H) and cover. both are now removed, by running and the new cover rules.

People keep forgetting that a crisis suit is only as tough as 2 marines, with worse leadership (for ~ 2 x the cost).

Whilst i admit i know the pdf is not the finished article, under those rules i have yet to find a winning combination (which is a change from my usual tau which are 2 games, 21/1/2 W/D/L).