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tech adept
12-04-2008, 15:32
is me or does every heritic in the imperium always involved in chaos?

yes I know there are seperatist empires that are always trying to break free (before being ruthlessly put down) but what about orginaztions working in the imperium trying to fight for a ceartin cause? (inquisition can't get them all!)

for example does any thing like this exsist?:

1) a 'free' mutant army that raids imperial worlds to free their 'brothers'

2) a techno brotherhood that has shunned the AM by using A.Is, clonning, original research etc. and steals AM tech to enlighten other worlds that (secretly) follow their cause

3) a group of psykers who believe that only a truly united psyker humanity can rule the imperium thus use an equivelent of soul binging to make themselves into a human hive mind

sorry about the long intro to the thread but it's been bugging me for a long time but basicly I'm asking I am wrong and is there fluff out there and what you think about the concept.

Gorbad Ironclaw
12-04-2008, 15:52
The problem is that to become more than a local problem(for a single planet) and actually be a millitary factor over a sector or more you need a lot of infrastructure. You need a base to operate from, you need significant military forces, you need a fleet of warships etc.

Undoubtedly there are examples of all those groups around, it's just that none of them grows to be very big or engage in all out warfare and so we never heard about them in 40k because they fall outside the view we have of the setting.

Richter Kless
12-04-2008, 16:16
There is fluff like this, but it's always from the fans and you can pretty much discard all for Mary Sueism.

Heresies of the scale you are talking about rarely exist for long. The reason they always turn to Chaos, is because Chaos is the only one who is willing to help in their rebellion.

DapperAnarchist
12-04-2008, 16:32
Its not only fan-fluff - Karis Cephalon has a mutant resistance force, one that has little or nothing to do with Chaos. There are various Techno-heretics out there, experimenting in AI and the like. As for Psykers - an Inquisitor article mentions a group smuggling psykers out from under the nose of the Black Ships - for what purpose, we don't know. There are Xenos influenced rebellions, small human empires that manage to keep out of sight, overthrows of imperial governors who are then recognised by the Administratum as the new government... Lots of it.

Idaan
12-04-2008, 21:29
For techno-heresies, check out the Logicians in Dark Heresy - taking their name from a heretical work "In Defense of the Future - a Logical Discourse", being a progressive, atheistic and highly amoral cult. They were introduced in the second promo-adventure for the game, and were pretty scary.

Kandarin
13-04-2008, 02:38
3) a group of psykers who believe that only a truly united psyker humanity can rule the imperium thus use an equivelent of soul binging to make themselves into a human hive mind

Definitely. I believe there was a novel about something like this (Hydra?) but it was an Inquisitorial plot, not a renegade group. A similar scheme by a faction of rogue psykers is entirely feasible.

starlight
13-04-2008, 02:52
Renegade Imperial Governor wanting his own little domain?

Chapter Master/Ship's Captain/other position of near total authority who wants *total* authority?

Lots of reasons that have nothing to do with Chaos. :)

Iracundus
13-04-2008, 03:41
The vast majority of rebellions actually are likely to be entirely self motivated with no Chaos links. It is just that then it tends to devolve into conventional Imperial warfare once the Imperium responds, best represented on tabletop by IG vs IG or supposedly rarely (but all too often seen in fluff) SM vs IG. Since most worlds of the Imperium are just that, single worlds, they have little chance of extending their rebellion unless they also end up building a fleet or causing an Imperial fleet to defect. Not impossible to achieve but much less likely when the Imperium splits its space forces from ground control and ground administration.

Having Chaos involved creates a more marked difference in force composition, and admittedly makes it easier to tell the "bad guy" (he's the one with the spikes, horns, and mutations). It also is a way to make the rebels a harder advesary as then they can fall back on Chaos reinforcements and daemonic support.

tech adept
13-04-2008, 13:20
thanks for the info very interesting

shame about there being only some fluff though because I'm sure there could have be alot of potiental for the idea

Rabid Bunny 666
13-04-2008, 13:26
I think most of those get tarred over as Chaos by the Imperium for obvious reasons;

Civilian; "why'd you kill them"
=][=; "They wanted to better Humanity by advancing tehnology!"

:D