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oCoYoRoAoKo
12-04-2008, 22:06
hi all, here is the rework of my 2000 point slaanesh daemons list:

Keeper of Secrets: level 4, Blade of Torment, Siren, Allure of Slaanesh, Soulhunger: 650

Herald of Slaanesh: level 1, Steed of Slaanesh, Battle Standard Bearer, Banner of despair, Allure of Slaanesh, Siren : 315 points

The Masque: 90

10 Demonettes of Slaanesh: 120

10 Demonettes of Slaanesh: 120

10 Demonettes of Slaanesh: 120

5 Seekers of Slaanesh: 120

5 Seekers of Slaanesh: 120

5 Seekers of Slaanesh: 120

2 Fiends: 110

2 Fiends: 110

Total: 1995

(my thanks to SilverWarlock for the lord and Hero ideas, i've been running the math-hammer and they really are awesome :D - although i have been thinking of removing soulhunger from the KoS but i cant think of anything to spend the 30 points i have left on :P ).

on a side note, WOO for being able to force charges on multiple units with siren :D

All comments welcome.

Cy.

SilverWarlock
12-04-2008, 22:22
I'm happy my name got into that post :p I was going to say the list looked familiar :p

keep the soulhunger, there is very little to kill monsters, the reroll on wounds is good for high toughness beasties.

We have already debated the furies versus extra fiends :p.

What is this about the multiple units? Siren works on ItP, explanation on my thread, just requires reading the rules through :p.

oCoYoRoAoKo
12-04-2008, 23:11
aha, the multiple unit thing. i was mulling it around in my head and had to check myself that it could be done :P you see, on p24 of the rulebook it goes on about charging multiple units. one of the conditions for this is when "a unit cannot charge its intended target without simultaneously charging other enemy units". in this case, the charging unit charges all units involved whilst still trying to bring as many models in combat with the original intended target.

the reason i thought of this was because i was trying to figure out how the KoS could win combats against whole units, + enemy characters on turn 1. what you would do is something like: move the KoS and a unit of fiends or seekers (in base contact with the keeper) forward 20 inches, or to within your chosen tergets charge range (its useful to have the herald in base contact with the keeper aswell) like so:

xxxxx xxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx

f f K h

in this try to make sure that your herald, keeper and fiends are all in the front arc of both units, it may take some angling of them to get this right.

then use siren from the keeper on your intended unit. this forces the target unit to charge (or flee). if it charges it has no choice, due to the close proximity of the fiends and the herald, to charge all 3 of them (of course the majority of them will be in contact with the keeper but you should also manage to get the herald and one of the fiends able to fight. from there its just a simple matter of rolling dice and most probably winning the combat (i would also put the masque behind, or in place of the fiends here for its -D3 ld power). against characters you can accept with the keeper and still have extra attacks to take the unit with.

if the intended unit flees, you can use siren from the herald for the same effect, and if you have angled the models correctly you should still be able to get the Keeper and possibly the fiends into the multiple combat.

like i said, im still working this through in my mind but if all goes well, you should have either one unit broken and fleeing from combat or 2 units fleeing from siren.

hope you like the idea, maybe between the two of us we can refine it somewhat :D

Cy.

SilverWarlock
12-04-2008, 23:27
ok, I thought you were referring to something different

yes that is possible, it isnt very hard, it is also kind of cheap and will get you docked on sports scores, so I wont be using it.

oCoYoRoAoKo
12-04-2008, 23:35
each to his own i suppose. i mainly thought of this because of a certain VC that refuses to die every time i play him (redirecting with zombies) and i needed something to get him in turn 1 (and then watch the rest of the army crumble away :P ).

Cy.

ive actually had a game with the list under the new rules now and am satisfied with how it performs (though siren only working in your opponents turn is a bummer). the game was against beastmen with chaos knights, dragon ogres, minotaurs, a couple of beastherds, beastigors, a few units of chaos hounds, a unit of furies and 3 mages (i think that was all). the minotaurs and dragon ogres were largeley taken out of the game due to my speed. the chaos knights were pulled apart by the KoS (challenging the hero and then applying a -2 Ld thanks to the standard bearer). the beastigors were killed by a combined front and flank charge of daemonettes and mounted daemonettes, and the rest of the army was killed in a similar manner - although it did take my KoS 4 turns to finish off a beastherd due to their crazy ability to pass all break tests (even when flank charged by seekers). the crazy speed really makes up for relatve lack of magic.

so in summary, i think that out of the mono-god lists, solo slaanesh can work very, very well.

oCoYoRoAoKo
14-04-2008, 23:00
does no one have any comments?

Cy.

Belerophon709
15-04-2008, 07:04
I think the plan with the fiends is a bit complex and can be swung more easily. You just have to throw off the mindset of the old chaos lists, mainly the part about mixing "marks" in units.

Keepers and/or heralds can join fiends as a unit.

So just throw them into the unit and use siren on two seperate units.

It doesn't have to be fiends though, Keepers/Heralds can join Beasts of Nurgle or Bloodcrushers if they want to, since there are no restrictions on this with the new list.

A thought I have in general concerning this list is that you have a lvl 4 and a lvl 1, with no additional support. This leaves you with 7 PD and 5 DD with no scrolls, which, even in PD-restricted settings is a bit low if you ask me, since the low T of most of your force will leave you vulnerable to magic missiles and the like.
I know that scroll caddies have been enough in the past, but with the ever increasing power of magic in the newer books (VC and Daemons are prime examples), I think that's gonna change.

Comments, like you asked ;)

oCoYoRoAoKo
15-04-2008, 08:28
thanks for the comments,

although there are no restrictions in army selection, im afraid you still cant mix heralds with a different unit (so no slaanesh in nurgle units for example).

i aggree with you on the slightly 'thin' nature of my magic phase, especially against VC and Tzeentch heavy daemon lists. the problem is, in the daemon book, the only units that can have spellbreaker (dispel scroll) are the LoC, Tzeentch heralds and Khorne heralds, and even then, they can only have one each so there is no option of having a scroll caddy as in other armies. the only rel way i could sort this out is to shell out for a Tzeentch herald for 2 PD, one extra DD and maybe spellbreaker. I did want to try to avoid doing this though ( i think that with the speed of the army, magic missiles wont really be a problem. support magic however is another matter entireley)

Cy.

Belerophon709
15-04-2008, 17:44
Argh! I completely missed the part on page 30 about Heralds only being able to go with certain units. When I sped through the thing, I bypassed any grey areas, thinking them to be fluff. Damn GW ;)

Anyways, although the Great Icon of Despair is great for a Slaaneshi list, if you do get into trouble during the opponents magic phase, I would consider having the Great Standard of Sundering on standby at least.

My list, on which you have commented, is currently sporting the Banner of Unholy Victory, but that might change, depending on how much the magic phase is going to hurt. Will have to playtest and find out.

Keep us updated on this list, and on the play-testing if you plan to do any, as I would like to be able to run a Slaaneshi-list as well, being a long time Pleasureseeker myself. I have just found the "undivided" element of the new list to be more... alluring if you will - for starters at least.


Good luck!

oCoYoRoAoKo
16-04-2008, 23:29
hi all,

ive had another game with the list and managed to get a massacre result :D my opponent was empire with arch lector, warrior priest, light wizard, 2 units of swordsmen(?), one of greatswords, one of flagellants, 2 hellblasters and 2 cannons.

it was set up as the following (i hope this makes sense, the letters are the first letters of each of the units):

.....H.S.G.S.F.C.C.H..
............................
............................
............................
.F.K.S....D.D.D.S.S.F
....H.M...................

his warmachines on the right were set up on a hill, and there was a wood in front of my seekers on the right, and a building in between the keeper and the fiends on the left.

Turn1: he had the first turn. his troops moved forward, a cannon mis-fired and blew up, the other cannon squashed one of my seekers on the right. then i moved all of my quick troops 20" up the flanks, and the masque used her -D3ld on ability on the swordsmen on the left.

Turn 2: I sirened the swordsmen on the left into combat with my keeper, and the remaing troops moved foreward again. the hellblaster on the left opened up, killing the seekers, and the hellblaster on the right opened up, killing a fiend. magic killed the rest of the damaged seeker unit on the right. the masque died from a cannonball to the face. in combat i killed the warrior priest in the swordsmen unit, lost combat by 1 but passed my test. in my turn, i moved the daemonettes backwards 3" charged and killed all of the warmachines, killed 4 swordsmen, and successfully cast phantasmagoria.

Turn 3: the archlector left his unit ready to charge the keeper in the next turn, the rest of the units moved foreward to my daemonettes apart from the flagellents who turned to face the mounted daemonettes and fiend on the right. in the magic phase, the lector gave himself a 4+ ward.
in combat, the keeper killed 4 more swordsmen. In my turn, my herald charged in to help the keeper, and the rest of the fast elements of the army reformed. the daemonettes moved back a further 3". the keeper and the herald beat the swordsmen and ran them dowm, phantasmagoria was again succsessfully cast.

Turn 4: the archlector charged the keeper, the wizard left his unit to try and fry the seekers on the right with magic, the rest of the army moved forewards. in combat, the lector revealed his (suprise!) VHS, and my keeper failed to do anything. the lector failed his -2Ld (due the banner) phantas-ed test, didnt attack, and was beaten and run down by outnumbering. the mage also failed to wound with his magic on the seekers. in my turn, i got the keeper into the flank of the greatswords, and the seekers into the rear, beat them and ran them down. also, i charged the swordsmen with my daemonettes, lost, but held together. the mage was also charged and killed by the lone fiend on the right.

Turn 5: the battlefield looks like this:

............................
......................S.....
............H........F.....
...............K.S.........
............D..D.D........
.............................

with only some swordsmen and flagellents left., the swordsmen were killed in his turn, and in mine, the keeper charged the flagellents with the seekers and finished them off in the last turn.

so, in conclusion:
1.crazy speed really does make up for lack of numbers
2.keep the Keeper and the herald together - the combination of their abilities is brutal and what gave me the edge throughout the early stages of the game.
3.phantasmagoria is an awesome power.
4. play aggressively with the seekers and fiends, be in combat from turn 2.

hope you enjoyed it.

Cy.

oCoYoRoAoKo
24-04-2008, 10:44
Hi all,

had another game, this time against night-goblins (another massacre to me). my opponent had 6 large units of night gobbos (2 fanatics each), 2 units of squig hoppers, a squig herd, a giant, 2 spear-chukkers, a great shaman (lvl 4), and 3 normal shaman (lvl 2).

set up was uncomplecated (going from left to right) giant and unit of gobbos on one flank, 4 units of gobbos and the squig herd in the centre with the mages, squig hoppers and the last unit of gobbos on the other flank. the spear chukkers went on a hill behind his main lines. for me it was my usual affair, daemonettes in the centre, herald, masque, KoS and some seekers on one flenk, the rest on the other flank.

Some ineresting things to note in this game:

1. I used the masque to lure out the fanatics in the central blocks of gobbos (she died eventually, but it was due to a rampaging squig and not the fanatics). this worked well as her 3+ ward protected her from the worst of the punishment.

2. Due to the speed of the army, magic defense wasnt really a problem, though with 4 foot of gork cast every turn , and with only 5 dispel dice, my keeper (who spent my turns in combat, only to win and run out into the open, ready for my opponents magic phase, got in real trouble (reduced to 1 wound).

3. slicing shards of slaanesh, when combined with the -2 Ld banner = the end of units. most basic units have Ld 7 or 8, modified to 5 or 6 (the gobbos had Ld terrible, and the spell only stopped after my opponent rolled a double 1 after 14 goblins died). not bad for a spell cast on a 7.

4. The way i use the herald, im not sure i need siren on her. however, if i put her in a unit of seekers or fiends, her uses would be greatley increased (and not to mention, surviverability - T3 and 2 wounds :*( )

Cy.

bojo
25-04-2008, 17:01
Demonetes are very fragile and a wood probably put them in units of 20

fubukii
25-04-2008, 17:14
is the blade of torment the ignore armor save item? i think with str 6 and -4 modifer you wouldnt need to ignore armor.

oCoYoRoAoKo
25-04-2008, 17:21
blade of torment makes anyone wounded by it have to make a Ld test to attack that combat round. Allure of slaanesh makes anyone wanting to attack the KoS have to take a Ld test or not attack. soulhunger gives a reroll to wound on the first round of combat. combined with the -2Ld of the banner of despair and the masques abilities to reduce the Ld of a nearby unit by -D3 makes the keeper near unhittable in combat. That particular combo (with siren to lure out units) works very niceley against bloodthirsters (wound him once and watch him crumble :D ) and is generally good for assassinating enemy lords (vamps in particular).

Cy.

fubukii
25-04-2008, 17:24
Hmm that is a really nasty combo i like it!

TIZNE
30-04-2008, 17:01
Excellent reports!
How are you Daemonettes performing? I do think that MSU is the way to go, but are they really being useful? They are probably not winning a combat by themselves, and they are probably being overruned if they receive the charge... never used them myself though I may be wrong.

Lord Aries
01-05-2008, 07:23
First off.. your group still plays at 2000? Most groups in the country that I have played in (15 different states, 50+ gaming groups) plays 2250. You guys should scan the environment and try it.


KoS+ level 4+ Masque + 2 Tzeentch Heralds with 25 point gift to pick any lore and know all spells... take death.

Cast death spell that makes the enemy -3 LD.

Win game....

oCoYoRoAoKo
01-05-2008, 08:24
hi all,

thanks for the replies. on the subject of daemonettes, i find that they are a bit of a mixed bag gaming wise - they either do really well or not at all. what i have noticed though is that usually my opponents invest a large amount of time to try to kill them (maybe because of their reputaton? :P ). this does suit me however, because the real damage dealers in the army are the fiends and the keeper/herald/masque combo - everything else is really just a distraction (well, the seekers less so).

Also on the subject of the daemonetes, i aggree that on their own against anything better then a goblin, 10 wont really cut it as a main force. however, when used with the seekers for flank charges, they can comfortably win most combats. i think that this is where the real strength of the slaanesh list lies - in the synergy between the units. my general game plan in each battle is to put the nettes in the middle, and fast stuff on the flanks. then the fast stuff beats doen my opponents' flanking units and does a u-turn ready or flank and rear charges. in the meanwhile, the daemonetes just sit tight, waiting to charge in turn 3 or so (sometimes moving backwards a bit to give the flankers that little bit more time to finish off whatever theyre up to). This way, they dont really have to go into a fight unsupported which drastically improves their chances of survival.

Lord Aries: i have considered that particular combo and i think that its going to end up in my 3000 point variant of the list. As for playing games of 2250, my gaming usually builds list to UK GT limits (which is, unfortunately 2000 points - less then in America and the rest of Europe. sigh). anyway, i like the way that the army performs in 2000 points but increasing it to 2250 i would probably go for another unit of seekers (leaving me with 130) and fit in either a tzeentch herald or bluescribes (failing that, 1 more fiend for each unit) - whe problem is, there is only so much space on my flanks for me to use, and the seekers/fiends really benefit from that little bit of extra space.

thanks for your time, ill try to put up more reports as they come (i have had 2 games recently against VCs so ill attempt to get them up a bit later).

Cy.