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VC Doke
13-04-2008, 18:53
Has anyone yet exploited the first turn vampire charge while on foot (or otherwise)?

Formula: Get one vampire with Ghoulkin + stuff a hero or lord vampire in a unit of ghouls + slap the talisman of lynci on him and kid him out with offense = one suprised opponent

I plan on trying this out when I am going through a campaign this summer.

What do you think?

javaguru
13-04-2008, 19:30
Has anyone yet exploited the first turn vampire charge while on foot (or otherwise)?

Formula: Get one vampire with Ghoulkin + stuff a hero or lord vampire in a unit of ghouls + slap the talisman of lynci on him and kid him out with offense = one suprised opponent

I plan on trying this out when I am going through a campaign this summer.

What do you think?
What would be the tactical advantage? A lone vampire, lord or not, is going to be in serious trouble alone in enemy lines. IMO, characters are most effective when combined with a unit. I'm considering running a vampire hero with spectral form in a unit of cairn wraiths. They will be able to march and with M6 they can get into combat fast as well as having the magical support.

Your Mum Rang
13-04-2008, 19:42
Has anyone yet exploited the first turn vampire charge while on foot (or otherwise)?

Formula: Get one vampire with Ghoulkin + stuff a hero or lord vampire in a unit of ghouls + slap the talisman of lynci on him and kid him out with offense = one suprised opponent

I plan on trying this out when I am going through a campaign this summer.

What do you think?

Actually, I've been playing this since the book came out but with 4 flying Vamps. It doesn't really work tbh. Things will either flee and leave you stuck or your Vamps will bounce and then crumble.

It's decent... but not ideal.

the_raptor
13-04-2008, 20:14
Im thinking it would be better to run a caster vamp up a flank to harass the enemy while he waits for support to arrive.

VC Doke
13-04-2008, 20:37
Ya, march blocking is a great thing. I like Armor of Night with the -2 to shooting, but its is too back you can't throw on the Wristbands on a hero level Vamp. I suppose you shouldn't have your cake and eat it too.

Milney
13-04-2008, 20:45
If you really want a Turn 1 charge with a Vampire character why don't you do it properly, with some real punch?

Assuming the usual 24.1" distance between armies (Scenario rule "Models must be deployed 24" away from enemy models; and GW's ruling that 24" range weapons are out of range at the start of the game) something like the following:

Vampire Lord;
Red Fury,
Infinite Hatred,
Walking Death,
Dreadlance,
The Book of Arkhan,
Zombie Dragon.

Admitedly it racks up to 675 points (perhaps make him Level 3 aswell for more chance of him drawing enemy dispel dice).

20" fly movement, followed by a bound Vanhel's for the extra 8" charge. In combat with a monster fighter (4 Auto-hit, 2+ to-wound with extra attacks) riding a Zombie Dragon which *hates* all your enemies and an extra +1 combat res.

It's still risky, but he's got far more chance of surviving than a lone character on foot does. Plus Terror is always fun against Humans...

Spirit
13-04-2008, 20:51
I play with a scouting vampire.

Battle standard bearer
Walking death
Sword of might (or battle)
armour of night
talisman of M9

So he has 3 S6 attacks and a base of 2 combat res, and he needs to lose a combat by 3 to die thanks to the bsb. He is 225 points, but boy does he make a mess of gunlines and knights. Played a bretonian player and flank charged 7 knights. He only had rank outnumber and standard, so even if i didn't kill a knight (which S6 does easily anyway, even with 5+/5+ save) i still didn't lose a wound. He killed them, and stopped so much of his army.

And he is a lvl 1 mage to boot! If your worried about protection, give him the flayed hauberk, but i have that on my general.'


And milney, why buy a dreadlance if you have hatred? And if your opponent has a dispell scroll, he will stop your bound and you now have a 3 wound T5 character with NO armour at all.

Remove the dreadlance and give him the 10 point flaming lance. Then he can have a 3+ ward save against shooting. Much better that way.

Milney
13-04-2008, 21:06
And milney, why buy a dreadlance if you have hatred? And if your opponent has a dispell scroll, he will stop your bound and you now have a 3 wound T5 character with NO armour at all.

Remove the dreadlance and give him the 10 point flaming lance. Then he can have a 3+ ward save against shooting. Much better that way.

Infinite Hatred isn't for the Vampire. It's for the Zombie Dragon. Remember that discussion a few weeks back about the Mount Psychology rule on Page 79 of the BRB? What's better than 5 WS6 S6 attacks from a Dragon? Why 5 W6 S6 attacks with a re-roll to hit ;)

Also, in a pinch (assuming he didn't dispatch his chosen victims in 1 turn) he'll probably need the extra re-rolls considering he can't use his lance in the 2nd round of combat.

Also using the Dreadlance in this particular combination was deliberate to the discussion of this thread (that of a Turn 1 charge). Assuming the Vampire fulfills his purpose of getting into combat on Turn 1, shooting will never be an issue (due to his massive overrun distance). If he doesn't... well it was a noble gamble on a scale equal to that of the Light Brigade ;) :P

VC Doke
13-04-2008, 22:10
Infinite Hatred isn't for the Vampire. It's for the Zombie Dragon. Remember that discussion a few weeks back about the Mount Psychology rule on Page 79 of the BRB? What's better than 5 WS6 S6 attacks from a Dragon? Why 5 W6 S6 attacks with a re-roll to hit ;)



Gross dude, I just read that. That changes things :D

VC Doke
13-04-2008, 22:15
Of course, Infinite Hatred is not technically a listed psychology. If the bloodline power said it could get the effect of Hatred every round then it would apply to the Zombie Dragon too.

Milney
13-04-2008, 22:36
Of course, Infinite Hatred is not technically a listed psychology. If the bloodline power said it could get the effect of Hatred every round then it would apply to the Zombie Dragon too.

The rules for Infinite Hatred, and I quote;

"The Vampire Hates all enemies and may re-roll failed rolls to hit in every round of close combat."

As such the Vampiric power imparts two effects on the Vampire with it:

1) The Vampire is now subject to all the rules for Hatred (and as such passes it to his mount as per p79 of the BRB).
2) The Vampire may take his re-rolls to hit in all subsequent rounds of combat.

The key word to read here is "and". The Power gives two linked effects, not one unique one. So the Zombie Dragon does *hate* everyone, the only difference is that it does not recieve the re-rolls in subsequent rounds as that part of the power isn't psychology, but the hatred part is.

Enjoy :)

Shamfrit
13-04-2008, 22:42
Try Talisman of Lycni, Summon Creatures of the Night, and run the Vampire up one flank with two units of 5 Direwolves and some Fellbats in one large animalistic mass.

Keep those Dire Wolves up, and get them up to ten, and huge amounts of bats?

Lovely!

bnf
13-04-2008, 23:04
Has anyone yet exploited the first turn vampire charge while on foot (or otherwise)?

Did that in my first game with my then new Vampire army. Took out my dwarf opponent's organ gun in the first turn, then my Vampire was overwhelmed by a mass of angry dwarfes.
What I like better is to fly a vampire hero with the terror-causing sword behind enemy lines during the first turn (obviously works better with the ghoul "catapult"). That led to lots of greenskins running, some of them right off the table after one unit ran through half my opponent's lines. The vampire then spent the rest of the game taking out warmachines and more than made his points back.

VC Doke
13-04-2008, 23:15
The rules for Infinite Hatred, and I quote;

"The Vampire Hates all enemies and may re-roll failed rolls to hit in every round of close combat."

As such the Vampiric power imparts two effects on the Vampire with it:

1) The Vampire is now subject to all the rules for Hatred (and as such passes it to his mount as per p79 of the BRB).
2) The Vampire may take his re-rolls to hit in all subsequent rounds of combat.

The key word to read here is "and". The Power gives two linked effects, not one unique one. So the Zombie Dragon does *hate* everyone, the only difference is that it does not receive the re-rolls in subsequent rounds as that part of the power isn't psychology, but the hatred part is.

Enjoy :)

I like your thinking...