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brassangel
13-04-2008, 23:21
Maybe this is in the wrong area, so [Mods] feel free to move it where it belongs.

I am embarking on a Bretonnian army, and I am very picky about my paint schemes. I don't enjoy the circus theme, as I've expressed on here before; but more than that, I am not a fan of how some painters take the liberty to use a banner to show off their artistic ability rather than painting it to resemble medieval fabric weaving. It's not the gas can to a Harley, right? I also think that some people get carried away with the NMM until the model looks like a cartoon of blues and yellows. For some reason, this is the accepted "10 of 10" designs on sites like CMoN.

Ranting aside, I enjoy the fluff surrounding the Dukedom of Mousillon. I am reading that they are generally shunned by the other realms, and typically wear darker armor. In fact, their self-proclaimed duke of the land wears all black armor and claims to be a relative of the king; though Louen wants desperately to cleanse the land and start over with it.

Does anybody have any links or ideas to places depicting this darker, slightly ruined image of an otherwise bright kingdom? I guess I'd like to know it's been done before, or is accepted so that I don't have to explain the story every time someone sees my army. Not that I don't enjoy being original, but still...

Thanks!

Lantern
13-04-2008, 23:31
I've often thought about this myself, and cameup with a few ideas. One of them is to paint all the horsebarding black, and only use colour on the shield(basially, differnent designs on each sheild).
The other was to use the actual Mousillon colours (traditional) of yellow with a black fluer de lis on it, but I felt this would work with the black armoured duke, and I wanted to make sure to try painting the armour black as it would be more challenging than silver.
You could also just paint all the barding black and use the official sheild on ALL of the knights.

brassangel
14-04-2008, 03:03
I'm starting to flesh out what he would be armed with as well. The paint scheme is still escaping me, though games such as Medieval II: Total War have helped.

I've also decided that the knights who follow him will be dark as well, perhaps those who he has brought with him from mysterious lands, or those who haven't fled. The whole, it's better to side with the devil than be in his path, sort of thing.

For flavor purposes, I'm thinking about making it so that they never take the Blessing of the Lady, as the Duke would likely be highly disliked by the Lady. It will make some things more difficult from a gameplay perspective without the Ward saves, but it seems flavorful. I want him to have a morning star for character; what would you suggest equipping him with in terms of virtues, talismans, armor, etc?

brassangel
14-04-2008, 19:53
What are some good combos for a Paladin to be armed with for 50 total points, and a Lord to be armed with for 100 total points?

We're talking about an all-comers approach, with a tiny focus on Chaos, Orcs, and Vampire Counts (3 most popular in my area).

Bretonnian Lord
14-04-2008, 20:08
Lord
-Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Shield, Lance, Grail Vow
-Cuirass of Fortune, Virtue of Knightly Temper

This is how I typically arm my Lord. He absolutely destroys rank and file models on the charge. Against most enemies, he hits on 3s, wounds on 2s (re-roll failed rolls to wound), and then any successful wounds generate more attacks! Plus he gets magical attacks and is immune to psychology, making him deadly against undead. Comes in at slightly over 200 points so he's (fairly) cheap for the amount of carnage he can cause.

Paladin
-Barded Bretonnian Warhorse, Shield
-Lance of Artois, Virtue of the Joust

Sometimes I use this setup if I want to pick out a specific enemy character. Re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound + killing blow on the charge. Kind of a gamble, but this guy is still fairly cheap if it doesn't work.

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer
-Barded Bretonnian Warhorse
-Virtue of Duty and Warbanner

Makes this guy a combat resolution bomb, although he only has 3+ AS and 5++/6++ ward, so put him a unit for safekeeping. Switching those items out with Gromril Great Helm and Sword of Power is also good, since he will have a 2+ re-rollable AS and always have strength 5.

***Edit*** Also, check out this great website with a Bretonnian army from Mousillon:

http://www.mousillon.com/

Lantern
14-04-2008, 21:06
Thinking in terms of your background for your character, what about getting permission from friends to use the Virtue of the Ideal with no downsides? (perhaps they would look upon the fact your not using the blessing as a worthy trade off) It is the the knightly virtue of Landuin, First Duke of Mousillon and would be very characterful in its own right.
In failing that, take the virtue on a hero within your army and simply forgoe the blessing anyway.

NB: For those who dont know, the Virtue of the Ideal adds +2 WS, +1 A and +1I with the downside that it cannot be taken by the general and reduces the knight (and any knights within 6 inches) LD by 1.

Col. Dash
14-04-2008, 23:02
I am still in the process of a Hospitaller Knight army and have painted a few knights and archer units. I have never been one for bright shiny paint jobs, so I can sympathize with you there, thankfully, Bret models really lend themselves to dark paint jobs. I really like the above mentioned Lord layout, I might look into trying that with a hippogriff and see how that works. Just for reference, it is a hospitaller army with a fantasy lean to it. I go with boltgun metal armor with a black ink wash, a BGmetal drybrush and a chainmail silver highlight. Their tabards are black with grey db with light gray crosses with heavy white db. All the french flowery thingies, flour di whatevers, are done in gold. The archers are the same just with less detail and obviously less armor. Whenever it finally gets done, it will look good on the field, whenever being the operative word as I lose interest after a week or so and come back to the project 6 months later.

Egfy
15-04-2008, 01:10
You could use darker colours than normal and possibly break the normal heraldic rules and replace argent (white) with sable (black) as the second metal.

brassangel
15-04-2008, 14:59
Thanks, folks. These are all great ideas. I know that Bretonnians aren't exactly a hot topic right now, seeing as how they came out in 03-04, but I'm just picking them up.

How awful is a morning star compared to a lance?

@Lantern: I kept pondering the Virtue of the Ideal as a very flavorful addition to the Duke. It would make some sense to disallow him as general, seeing as how he's the self-proclaimed Duke of Mousillon. Perhaps a lot of troops don't quite trust him yet, and some only go to war with him out of fear. Others are starting to become loyal and bear his heraldry.

@Bretonnian Lord: I don't know if I will be going the full-blown undead route, but that is certainly a creative take on the army!

savage_&_proud_of_it
15-04-2008, 20:49
if you want background on mousillion then why not try and get your hands on barrony of the damned, its a sourcebook set in mousillion it is very useful for background on the black knight and his army of knights, undead and thugs, hard to imagine them getting along really

Lantern
15-04-2008, 21:56
Painting Bretonnians isn't as daunting as you think. I was glad to have the freedom to do what I liked after years of painting Ultramarines.
My own Bretonnians are all individual, but I have found ways to paint units that match whilst retaining the individuality of each model (admittedly, I only did this once, with my Pegasus Knights).
In the case of my Pegasus Knights, I painted the actual barding one solid colour (Red, Black and Blue, respectively) with white shield devices that had thin rims of the solid barding colour as the border (so in the case of the red shield, the colours went white-thin red line-white ). By repeating this with all of my pegusi, they start to look uniform, with the main individuality coming from the heraldic devices on their sheilds.
Conversly, as my main knights are ALL different, I just get to throw on whatever paint I'm not running low on. I have made an attempt to attach images of the two knights I painted today (took about 3 hours, from black undercoat to finish). You will notice a lot of blacks and blues though, as these are the quickest to paint, however, the foundation paints range opens up many more possibilities for quick and easy paintjobs.

Sir_Turalyon
15-04-2008, 23:16
How awful is a morning star compared to a lance?

They are not alternatives, you can take both... Morning star seems like cheap replacement for magic weapon - hero charges with lance and recieves charges with morning star. Could be useful with virtue of penitent, or magic item loadout leaving no points for magic weapon, but I never tried such setup.

There is WFRPG supplement depicting Moulission (Barony of the Damned?). Mousillion always had strong undead conotations, but it's knights seem to be simply human renegades, "light" version of Black Knight archetype - not as extreme as chaos knights, rather based on historical robber knights and all kinds of villains from King Arthur or Robin Hood stories. Kind of knights who will sieze neigbours castle and daughter without provocation, or sit by forrest track challenging passers by to combat and robbing defeated. Yet they are not mad butchers who burn captured castle and sacrifice castellan daughter (forced marriage seems more likely) - they consider themselves nobility and knights, but are anarchic and unconcerned by code of chivlary, feudal obligations or rights of those who have no strength to back up their claims. They may even join other Bretonnian knights if their domains are attacked by common enemy or if there is prospect of rich spoils... then sack castles of their allies while returning home.

As for painting, you may try using darker, bleak or "rotten" shades of normal heraldic colours - bleached bone for white, browns for yellow, dark angels green and midnight blue instead of bright colours, dark red or blood red with chestnut ink coat. You may break rules of heraldry and not use white and yellow at all to get darker and harder to recognize heraldry. I advice against giving all knights same heraldry, you'll be bored to death before you finish the army; limiting yourself to few colourd and making all heraldries in them seem more creative to me.