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Johnnyfrej
14-04-2008, 03:27
Was in the shower today and a thought came to me. Who exactly is controlling those lumbering unkillable juggernauts. When on the rare occasions you actually glance, or Emperor bless you, a penetration, who is being shaken or stunned?

Two ideas came to me.
First, there is some sorta Necron Pilot sitting in the middle of it with tubes and links plugging him into the Monolith. Maybe he was like the Immortals and a chosen of the C'tan and was "blessed" by having his soul transferred into the core of a Monolith instead of a Necrodermis body?

Second is the much less interesting theory that they are powered similar to Tomb Sypders and Scarabs, in which they have some form of AI. I don't like this as much because it sounds so simple. You could just shrug the whole question and say "its just a machine."

What are your thoughts?

Sikkukkut
14-04-2008, 04:15
I've always gone with your first alternative, that somewhere in there there's a Necron intelligence, either simply loaded across from its humanoid shell into the Monolith core or with its body partly dismantled and integrated into the Monolith structure.

I don't have any canon to quote, this is just my own picturing of them.

Chaplain of Chaos
14-04-2008, 04:18
I would argue that Necrons are... just machines. Machines that descended from a biological species but that are so far seperate that they no longer count.

I always saw them as driven by an AI, perhaps with it's original intellect descended from the Necrontyr but just as easily I could see it as similar to the Tomb Spyders (I see that as more likely).

Iracundus
14-04-2008, 04:25
Second. The use of such things as Scarabs and Tomb Spyders show the Necrons do not require a Necron intelligence in everything in their army or faction. I find the first far less interesting and illogical to suppose the most advanced race (in real space technology) cannot create an automated combat machine.

zerachiel
14-04-2008, 06:22
Tomb Spyders and Scarabs are the only things in the Necron army with horrible BS, and the Monolith has the same BS as normal Necrons soooo... :D

I'd imagine for something as impressive and important as the Monolith they'd at least delegate a Necron or five to make sure it doesn't do something stupid.

Mad King George
14-04-2008, 07:25
The Lizard Men Pilot Them

Iracundus
14-04-2008, 07:44
Tomb Spyders and Scarabs are the only things in the Necron army with horrible BS, and the Monolith has the same BS as normal Necrons soooo... :D

I'd imagine for something as impressive and important as the Monolith they'd at least delegate a Necron or five to make sure it doesn't do something stupid.

The primary function of Tomb Spyders and Scarabs is maintenance of the tombs, not combat, hence their low BS. The Monolith's purpose however is more combat oriented. Again no a priori reason why a Necron has to be needed.

Iuris
14-04-2008, 08:41
I'd go with the second version. My interpretation is that everything in the C'tan army is simply there to serve the C'tan, with an integrated AI. It's just that with the Necrons, the AI is a copyof /inspired by the original personality of the living Necrontyr...

Kaoslord
14-04-2008, 12:57
Well, the thing kind of has a face on a couple of the panels. Neither Tomb Spyder, nor Scarab, nor Pylon have a face.

I could easily imagine a Necron being disembodied so his head could be placed in the Monolith's control interface as a means of transferring the consciousness.

As to how the Necron is selected? I wouldn't want to hazard a guess, but it probably started life as at least an Immortal.. Why put a random Rank and File Necron in one of those things....

MrBigMr
14-04-2008, 16:17
The Lizard Men Pilot Them
Actually, when you think about it, it always pays to have a small crew as they fit into the thing better. A crew that has technological knowledge. A crew that has experience with machines and vehicles big and small. A race that has suddenly disappeared without trace.

Hmm... What could be such a race?

The Guy
14-04-2008, 16:24
Actually, when you think about it, it always pays to have a small crew as they fit into the thing better. A crew that has technological knowledge. A crew that has experience with machines and vehicles big and small. A race that has suddenly disappeared without trace.

Hmm... What could be such a race?

So the nids ate the squats, and the monoliths [monolids?] ate the lizardmen? :p

I'd like to think that it was an AI chip thingy that has a tasty necron soul in it.
I don't see why they'd put the actual body of the necron in it. Just a waste of space for more AV14 goodness. And more gauss weapons.

DapperAnarchist
14-04-2008, 17:29
Or it could be mouthless psychic lizard-centaurs. Thats right, the Monoliths are piloted... BY ZOATS!...

I miss Zoats...

Shortseer
14-04-2008, 17:40
MONOLITHS CANNOT BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED AS THERE IS NO PILOT TO BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED.

READ THE CODEX IMO.

The Guy
14-04-2008, 18:20
MONOLITHS CANNOT BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED AS THERE IS NO PILOT TO BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED.

READ THE CODEX IMO.

Where does it say that?

Goq Gar
14-04-2008, 18:34
MONOLITHS CANNOT BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED AS THERE IS NO PILOT TO BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED.

READ THE CODEX IMO.

Wow, Capital letters. That definetly makes your point very emphasized and therefore mean more. Now let us discuss your post.

Monoliths are vehicles. Vehicles are piloted. Piloting a vehicle requires a pilot, whether it be an actual pilot, or a computer system.

Some vehicles today are piloted, not by humans, but machines. Computers that can analyze and control vehicles.

So, with that in mind, is it not foesible that a monolith could be piloted by a computer? If so, could it not also be subject to being shaken or stunned in the same way a computer can freeze if you smack it hard enough?

So, by that logic, you can shake and stun monoliths.

Rules wise, i am not a codex lawyer, but from my last skim, I remember nothing to the effect of "]MONOLITHS CANNOT BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED AS THERE IS NO PILOT TO BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED." Especially not in massive capital letters or red text. Indeed, I dont remember anything being capitalized to make a point, because it just makes you come across as a dislikable person. :eyebrows:

The_Outsider
14-04-2008, 18:40
Rules wise, i am not a codex lawyer, but from my last skim, I remember nothing to the effect of "]MONOLITHS CANNOT BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED AS THERE IS NO PILOT TO BE SHAKEN OR STUNNED." Especially not in massive capital letters or red text. Indeed, I dont remember anything being capitalized to make a point, because it just makes you come across as a dislikable person. :eyebrows:

Its a reference to the power matrix - which isn't affected by shaken/stunned damage results, the monolith itself however can be stunned/shaken.

I see monoliths "piloted" by a combat AI - a tombspyder and scarab's AI is there to keep a tomb running- a monolith's is there to keep it fighting and supporting necrons.

Not to mention there could be multiple AI - each one dealing with a particular aspect (say one for power matrix, one for propulsion and one for each gauss flux arc).

As with any machine "more is stronger".

Goq Gar
14-04-2008, 18:49
Its a reference to the power matrix - which isn't affected by shaken/stunned damage results, the monolith itself however can be stunned/shaken.

I see monoliths "piloted" by a combat AI - a tombspyder and scarab's AI is there to keep a tomb running- a monolith's is there to keep it fighting and supporting necrons.

Not to mention there could be multiple AI - each one dealing with a particular aspect (say one for power matrix, one for propulsion and one for each gauss flux arc).

As with any machine "more is stronger".

Indeed? I must have missed that... :confused:

Anyway, I rarely if ever face necrons, so I tend not to know such things so well :D And thankyou for conveying your thoughts without shouting.

So A monolith could have multiple AI's controlling different aspects of it?

Indeed, redundancy would be far safer in a machine like that... and it would be far less prone to difficulties and faults if each was focused on just one aspect. Each AI could be capable of taking over for others that are knocked out. Fascinating to think about :D

The_Outsider
14-04-2008, 19:05
So A monolith could have multiple AI's controlling different aspects of it?

Indeed, redundancy would be far safer in a machine like that... and it would be far less prone to difficulties and faults if each was focused on just one aspect. Each AI could be capable of taking over for others that are knocked out. Fascinating to think about :D

Well considering that the actual AI core could be stupidly small (on the account the necrons are the only race to fully transfer consciousness from one being to another) so redundancy makes sense.

You don't remain number 1 in the food chain after destroying (for all intents and purposes) gods without reliable technology. After all the necrontyr spent millenia developing their technology just to fight the Old Ones on even terms.

Continuing the specialised AI idea- maybe a Tombspyder has "raw" number crunching power enabling them to things collate data learned form the field at super high speeds.

So when a full necron host goes to war they can adjust and learn at phenomenol speeds thanks to their "nodal" intelligence (ref: apocalypse) - every necron becomes an eye and an ear for the local host (so say, a tombspyder could lcoate a hidden basilisk just by hearing the sound of its shell).

Bregalad
14-04-2008, 19:19
Its a reference to the power matrix - which isn't affected by shaken/stunned damage results, the monolith itself however can be stunned/shaken.
I see monoliths "piloted" by a combat AI - a tombspyder and scarab's AI is there to keep a tomb running- a monolith's is there to keep it fighting and supporting necrons.
There are meager informations about the Monolith in the Codex, but analysing each word, the answer to your question is:

The Monolith has a crew (that can be stunned), so nothing like a machine spirit or implemented AI.
The Monolith has an energy matrix that controls the weapons and other stuff. This matrix can't be shaken or stunned, as it has no crew but some implemented control (an AI, a machine spirit, whatever).

The_Outsider
14-04-2008, 19:49
There are meager informations about the Monolith in the Codex, but analysing each word, the answer to your question is:

The Monolith has a crew (that can be stunned), so nothing like a machine spirit or implemented AI.

Well my codex has under the monolith entry "Crew: None."


The Monolith has an energy matrix that controls the weapons and other stuff. This matrix can't be shaken or stunned, as it has no crew but some implemented control (an AI, a machine spirit, whatever).

It doesn't say either way.

As it stands outside of reading into "crew: none" as much as you like there is virtually no fluff on how it actually works.

Chaplain of Chaos
14-04-2008, 20:02
Crew: None is in my entry as well.

It's piloted by an AI

Johnnyfrej
14-04-2008, 20:11
Alright, it seems to be that the Monolith was intended to have no "crew." It can therefore be interperted as:

a.) There is one or more Necrontyr souls imprinted inside the Monolith's core. They are apart of the Monolith and therefore not "crew." There would likely be one as the driver, one for controlling the teleporter matrix, and one or more gunners (for flux arc and particle).

b.) There is only an advanced AI controlling the whole Monolith.

The_Outsider
14-04-2008, 20:21
Alright, it seems to be that the Monolith was intended to have no "crew." It can therefore be interperted as:

a.) There is one or more Necrontyr souls imprinted inside the Monolith's core. They are apart of the Monolith and therefore not "crew." There would likely be one as the driver, one for controlling the teleporter matrix, and one or more gunners (for flux arc and particle).

b.) There is only an advanced AI controlling the whole Monolith.

The reason I say b) is the necrontyr had no aversion to technology - why waste a necrontyr spirit on a tank that might as well use AI's (that tombspyders show can exist) when you could get at least another warrior for the legion?

Obviously this is not to say that if a necrontyr is piloting a monolith it probably isn't by choice, but make of that what you will.

Bregalad
14-04-2008, 22:30
Right, found the entry "Crew: None". But the German text later says that the Monolith still hovers when the CREW is stunned (referring then to the standard name of that result).

The_Outsider
14-04-2008, 22:39
Right, found the entry "Crew: None". But the German text later says that the Monolith still hovers when the CREW is stunned (referring then to the standard name of that result).

Do you know how many people here have claimed that the thing is immune to crew stunned on the grounds it has no crew?

Name of damage result on chart =/= relative to the only vehicle in the game with no crew.

Mad King George
14-04-2008, 23:59
i thought it looses 1 weapon to use for each crew stunned

weissengel86
15-04-2008, 00:14
there is no rule or portion of text in the necron codex that says monoliths cannot be stunned or shaken. A vehicle run by a computer can be temporarily disabled so it would be silly to say that monoliths cannot be stunned or shaken. I would also think a monolith is controlled by AI and i doubt it would be more then one AI either as in actuality controlling a vehicle with more then one AI would create conflict. Just as humans and organic beings do not need or should have two or three brains a single vehicle would have one AI with sub functions being relegated to different aspects of the vehicle such as sensors, regulation, movement, and weaponry.
edit: a weapon disabled roll reduces its flux weapon attacks by 1 (it gets d6 normally) you cannot destroy the particle whip

tangomegadeath
15-04-2008, 09:11
Kinda like the machine spirit?

Mercer
15-04-2008, 11:42
I think its a Necrontyr life essence. After all Necrontyr's life essence's were transported into there current bodies.

However the AI theory is creditable as well due to Tomb Spyders and Scarabs. And I doubt they're bound with a Necrontyr spirit.

Mercer

Müller
15-04-2008, 13:05
I say controlled from off-site by some form of AI, and stunned and shaken would mean that the comm-link between the AI and the internal controller for the monolith would get interference from shots that causes the shaken or stunned results...

Grey Seer Skretch
16-04-2008, 10:59
Dude...I think everyone so far has missed the bigger issue here...why were you thinking about Monoliths in the shower...? :D

Grey Seer Skretch
16-04-2008, 11:00
And with regards to the question in hand, Fraggles pilot them, and their attendant Doozers rebuild them, which is why they're so ******* hard to damage...unless your Boomgun scatters and hits one...and blows it up...mehehehehe...Martin....;)

azazel_fallenangel
16-04-2008, 14:58
I always thought it was a giant, very square Necron Immortal, on account of the head on one side.
Poor guy, bet he doesn't fit in with the other necrons, probably never gets invited out after work, or round for the post-harvest poker match.

Johnnyfrej
16-04-2008, 21:46
Dude...I think everyone so far has missed the bigger issue here...why were you thinking about Monoliths in the shower...? :D
If you must know I find most of my philosophical revelations happen when I least expect them ;).

Grindgodgrind
16-04-2008, 23:00
Windows XP Service Pack 2.

Or jokaero.

Kulgur
17-04-2008, 00:59
I'd say some kind of AI given the crew: none, under the monolith entry

Logarithm Udgaur
17-04-2008, 03:23
So the nids ate the squats, and the monoliths [monolids?] ate the lizardmen? :p


I am fairly certain that he was referring to the Jokaero (simian tech-adepts, probably based on the Chinese year of the monkey stereotype).

goferboy
20-04-2008, 19:09
My thoery is that the livnig metal the monolith is made of controls it, I mean it knows when to change in order to avoid a chainfist or meltagun so why cant it pilot a floating indestructible battle tank

MrBigMr
20-04-2008, 19:32
I am fairly certain that he was referring to the Jokaero (simian tech-adepts, probably based on the Chinese year of the monkey stereotype).
I'm talking about Squats.
The Necrons tricked the 'Nids to attack the planet. Just before that, they took the Squats away and let the 'Nids clean the planet, taking the blame. Then they forced the Squats to work as slave labour in the Monoliths.

Mad King George
21-04-2008, 00:51
I'm talking about Squats.
The Necrons tricked the 'Nids to attack the planet. Just before that, they took the Squats away and let the 'Nids clean the planet, taking the blame. Then they forced the Squats to work as slave labour in the Monoliths.

if they were in the monoliths controlling them why don't they just turn it on the Necrons

MrBigMr
21-04-2008, 13:11
if they were in the monoliths controlling them why don't they just turn it on the Necrons
Why don't the Pariahs, who are human, turn on the Necrons? Once the Squats were harvested, they were made into cyborgs and went through an extensive psychotherapy and implants to make them loyal to the Necrons and their C'Tan overlords. Also, the monolith doesn't allow them to target friendly Necrons nor run them over, and they Squats are hooked with personal teleporters that can be used to remove them from the monolith and a new crew inserted in an instant if they try anything funny.

Logarithm Udgaur
21-04-2008, 13:57
Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through when the Necs could just use AI and cut out the bloodbags entirely.

Mad King George
21-04-2008, 17:09
not exactly squats then are they, more or less borg

qsd
22-04-2008, 06:47
My thoery is that the livnig metal the monolith is made of controls it, I mean it knows when to change in order to avoid a chainfist or meltagun so why cant it pilot a floating indestructible battle tank

Living metal is not literally alive. It just has a "behavior" that shares things with organisms, such as repair and adaptation. Since virtually no one apart from the Necrons knows how it works, everyone else just calls it "living metal" in lack of a better term.
Basically, its an extremely advanced material, but its purpose is for construction. Necrons have other things for their AI needs.

Logarithm Udgaur
22-04-2008, 10:04
I imagine it is something like the self-repairing paints being developed. When part of it is damaged, the rest flows to the damaged spot, like the T-1000.

jhon
23-04-2008, 02:16
can orks hijack a monlith ?

Logarithm Udgaur
23-04-2008, 03:34
Only if you can model it. This would make a cool looted "counts as" Battlewagon.

marienmaster555
23-04-2008, 05:27
in my custom necron amry my monolith is piloted by a army of rogue scarabs with the souls of eldar in them........

hope this helps

mrjusting
28-04-2008, 15:25
Oh c'mon. It's clearly piloted by the necron head on the symbol above the portal.