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View Full Version : A question for a Khorne & Chaos Loremaster



Righter8
14-04-2008, 08:42
1. I had read somewhere, I believe, that while all World Eater CSM are Khorne Berzerkers, not all Khorne Beserkers are World Eater CSM . Is this accurate?

2. Does the Khorne Berzerkers box set come with only World Eater bits, or will I be able to make "generic" bezerkers with whats in the box? (i'm just starting a chaos force, and don't know anyone who has one).

Thanks

pookie
14-04-2008, 08:50
1. I had read somewhere, I believe, that while all World Eater CSM are Khorne Berzerkers, not all Khorne Beserkers are World Eater CSM . Is this accurate?

yes thats true, you dont have to be a WE to be a Zerk, but if you are a WE then you are always a Zerk.


2. Does the Khorne Berzerkers box set come with only World Eater bits, or will I be able to make "generic" bezerkers with whats in the box? (i'm just starting a chaos force, and don't know anyone who has one).

Thanks


the box builds Generic Zerks, as the only thing that would denote the Sqd being from the WE Legion would be chapter symbol, which is not moulded anywhere on the models.

Bassik
14-04-2008, 08:54
However, allmost each chaos boxed sets supplies you with those horrible stickers.

Righter8
15-04-2008, 20:49
the box builds Generic Zerks, as the only thing that would denote the Sqd being from the WE Legion would be chapter symbol, which is not moulded anywhere on the models.

Ok, so what is the fluff behind this (IMO) horrible looking helmet if it's not directly related to the World Eaters legion? I had thought maybe it was similar to the Thousands Sons and their legion-related ugly (again, IMO) helmets.

I just want to know the story behind the image.

Creeping_Death
15-04-2008, 21:01
It's a World Eater helmet if I'm correct. The first Khorne berserkers were WE's, but since their creation many berserkers have broken up into warbands that ally themselves with various other forces (there is a good example of berserkers in the black legion in the codex that still have their red WE helmets). I guess its just an image that has carried on after they've left the WEs.

Rabid Bunny 666
15-04-2008, 21:45
The helmet was on one of the first 'zerker minis, its a good way to distinguish them as Bezerkers, always thoguht they looked cool.

DantesInferno
15-04-2008, 22:45
Ok, so what is the fluff behind this (IMO) horrible looking helmet if it's not directly related to the World Eaters legion? I had thought maybe it was similar to the Thousands Sons and their legion-related ugly (again, IMO) helmets.

I just want to know the story behind the image.

It's clear that the Berzerker helmet was designed in homage to the physical shape of <Khorne's symbol> (http://warhammer.ingame.de/wiki/images/7/7c/Khorne_mark.jpg).

whitehat51
16-04-2008, 01:00
Well, as far as fluff goes, you can still run a 'counts as' army that has Khorne Berzerkers modeled as normal CSM's, or even as normal SM's that turned into Berzerkers(who never actually changed their armor).

I am actually using a 'temporary' army to represent my Khorne Berzerkers; since 40k can be played in any post-30th millennium setting, I am actually using the same force to represent my Space Marines during and after their turn to Chaos. I.E. They turned to Chaos, which is when I play them as Khorne Berzerkers, but they then turned back to the Emperor(thanks to the devotion of the Chaplains), so I can also play them as loyal Marines with Take the Fight to Them.

My point is, other than bragging about my army fluff :), you don't have to use the Berzerker models if you don't like them.

Logarithm Udgaur
16-04-2008, 06:00
Your marines became Berserkers and then switched back to loyal?

I have a follow up question for anyone who has read the HH novels. Did the WE have the bunny ears before the Heresy?
As you can probably tell, I am not a fan of the current Berserker helm. I know it is so they can be distinguished on the TT, and that it is imitation of Khorne's logo, but IMO it could have been done a lot better/cooler. My main beef is that they immediately bring to mind bunny ears, which are neither cool, nor scary, unless a hawt lady is under them.

pookie
16-04-2008, 10:40
to answer your question: from a fluff point of view, i dont think its ever been explainedwhy there heads are diffrent, buts its mainly rule of cool imo.


I have a follow up question for anyone who has read the HH novels. Did the WE have the bunny ears before the Heresy?
As you can probably tell, I am not a fan of the current Berserker helm. I know it is so they can be distinguished on the TT, and that it is imitation of Khorne's logo, but IMO it could have been done a lot better/cooler. My main beef is that they immediately bring to mind bunny ears, which are neither cool, nor scary, unless a hawt lady is under them.


prior to the HH they were armed the same as all other marine Legions.

until id been on this site id never known the heads to be called 'bunny' ears, and to me the first thing that springs to is Khorne, but maybe thats just me.

Righter8
16-04-2008, 12:56
Did the WE have the bunny ears before the Heresy?

I never thought of them as bunny ears, but your right, they do look like them. My main thoughts when looking at them is "How can someone with a helmet that stands half a marine tall be expected to run into melee? The wind resistance alone would be immense."

Thoth62
16-04-2008, 13:44
I would venture to say that these guys are pretty strong. It probably doesn't bother them too much. The real question, is how do they get through doorways without ducking?

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
16-04-2008, 18:41
Silly mortal- Khrone does not use "doorways"...

I imagine it's some form of psychological warfare-
"See, they're over there!"
"What, the ones with the bunny ears?"
"Yeah, those- with the bunny ears...and the chainsaws...yeah...woah"

"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!"

VanHel
16-04-2008, 19:40
Now I have this image of a berserker smashing through the wall like the Kool-Aid man.

Industrial Propaganda
16-04-2008, 19:51
Your marines became Berserkers and then switched back to loyal?

I have a follow up question for anyone who has read the HH novels. Did the WE have the bunny ears before the Heresy?
As you can probably tell, I am not a fan of the current Berserker helm. I know it is so they can be distinguished on the TT, and that it is imitation of Khorne's logo, but IMO it could have been done a lot better/cooler. My main beef is that they immediately bring to mind bunny ears, which are neither cool, nor scary, unless a hawt lady is under them.

No the Berzerkers didn't had this helmet during the heresy.
The 3rd edition Codex : Chaos space marines has a little description about the helmet.
It's called "Arx death helmet" World Eaters variant. Manufacture Post-heresy.
It's indeed in homage to the skull rune they did that.

I find this variant cool. Never seen them as bunny ears... And it's quite because this helmet apparence that I play World Eaters since 10 years :p

Megad00mer
16-04-2008, 19:58
1) All World Eaters became Khorne Berserkers. Each and everyone. Not all Khorne Berserkers are World Eaters though as any Space Marine, regardless of Legion/Chapter can fall to Khorne. Many seek to become a member of the World Eaters however due to their spiffy lobotimization techniques. The Black Legion also has a lot of Berserkers since they convinced some World Eater "brain surgeons" to join their ranks.

2) They're generic Khorne Berserkers (if you can call any KB generic).

I can't recall an official "fluff" reason why Berserkers have the "bunny ears". I always took it as another modification a marine makes to his armor (along with symbols of Khorne and painting it red and brass) to show his dedication to the Blood God. The "ears" seem to be reminiscent of Khorne's symbol.

Lucifer216
16-04-2008, 22:12
Actually it may well be that the true source of inspiration for the Mk 1 bunny helmet, is Conan the Barbarian the movie. That had a lot of similarly shaped helmets and a great deal of imagery that seemed distinctly chaotic in hindsight.

DarkAzrael169
17-04-2008, 04:35
Actually, World Eaters had this Helemt style during the hersesy... don'y know about pre however.

Source: HH novels

Logarithm Udgaur
17-04-2008, 05:03
Many seek to become a member of the World Eaters however due to their spiffy lobotimization techniques. The Black Legion also has a lot of Berserkers since they convinced some World Eater "brain surgeons" to join their ranks.


So are these "brain surgeons" berserkers or humans? I can just imagine the surgeon who did my appendectomy screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" right as the anaesthetic kicked in (he left the hugest scar I have ever seen).

pookie
17-04-2008, 09:21
1) All World Eaters became Khorne Berserkers. Each and everyone. Not all Khorne Berserkers are World Eaters though as any Space Marine, regardless of Legion/Chapter can fall to Khorne. Many seek to become a member of the World Eaters however due to their spiffy lobotimization techniques. The Black Legion also has a lot of Berserkers since they convinced some World Eater "brain surgeons" to join their ranks.

thats not strictly true, when the HH kicked off, all members of the Legion that had Psyic powers ( ie there librarians ) had there powers removed by Khorne and becmae the Book keepers of the chapter, i dont think these members of the Legion actully became Zerks.


So are these "brain surgeons" berserkers or humans? I can just imagine the surgeon who did my appendectomy screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" right as the anaesthetic kicked in (he left the hugest scar I have ever seen).

no they are the original Apothocarys from the Legion, and others that have been trained by Angron since. ( the Process is based on his Implants, and removing the part f the brain that process's fear, hence why they are not scared of anyone/anything.)

Industrial Propaganda
17-04-2008, 20:56
thats not strictly true, when the HH kicked off, all members of the Legion that had Psyic powers ( ie there librarians ) had there powers removed by Khorne and becmae the Book keepers of the chapter, i dont think these members of the Legion actully became Zerks.

No, there aren't "book keepers" in the World Eaters Legion. When they start worshipping Khorne, ALL librarians of the legion were executed one by one by their brothers to calm down the hate Khorne has for psykers.

ChaosBeast
17-04-2008, 21:08
thats not strictly true, when the HH kicked off, all members of the Legion that had Psyic powers ( ie there librarians ) had there powers removed by Khorne and becmae the Book keepers of the chapter, i dont think these members of the Legion actully became Zerks.


no, all the psicics got killed

Lothlanathorian
17-04-2008, 21:23
They killed the Psykers as a huge sacrifice to Khorne to secure his patronage.

The helms are post heresy and may just be from the armor twisting and changing itself until the Chaotic influence of Khorne (not fantasy Khorne lords have similar helms).

The armor on the WEs is red because they haven't washed the blood off of it in ten thousand years.

If you don't like the WE/Zerker helms, don't use them. I think any self respecting WE player would, but I have played them for years and years and years, so I am biased.

Industrial Propaganda
17-04-2008, 22:27
The armor on the WEs is red because they haven't washed the blood off of it in ten thousand years.

This is fantasmfanfiction. Nowhere it's stated that the armour is shiny red, black and brass colored from blood of the victims...

No, the armor was blue and white pre-heresy (can have been black before Angron was brought back by the Emperor, but this isn't stated too) and during the heresy. After the escape to the Eye Of Terror, they just converted their armour in hommage of Khorne, adopting his daemons apparence/colors and crafted their helmet to be linked to the rune of Khorne.

Lothlanathorian
17-04-2008, 23:28
This is fantasmfanfiction. Nowhere it's stated that the armour is shiny red, black and brass colored from blood of the victims...

No, the armor was blue and white pre-heresy (can have been black before Angron was brought back by the Emperor, but this isn't stated too) and during the heresy. After the escape to the Eye Of Terror, they just converted their armour in hommage of Khorne, adopting his daemons apparence/colors and crafted their helmet to be linked to the rune of Khorne.

The HH novel that details Istvaan implies it, but you are correct that it has not been explicity stated.

pookie
18-04-2008, 09:34
No, there aren't "book keepers" in the World Eaters Legion. When they start worshipping Khorne, ALL librarians of the legion were executed one by one by their brothers to calm down the hate Khorne has for psykers.


no, all the psicics got killed

sources please?

afaik they were just stripped of there powers, it was discussed only a month or so ago, i might be able to find that thread....

Industrial Propaganda
18-04-2008, 16:33
sources please?

/Mode fluff ns on :

In the first "codex" chaos : Realm Of Chaos : Slaves to the Darkness (1988) it's stated that the World Eaters still have Librarians.

This fluff piece changed with the second edition : Codex Chaos (1996) let appear some new stuff about WE (like Kharn the traitor) and a little piece of fluff under the chaos sorcerer entry who statted : all WE librarians were executed by their brothers that's why they don't have librarians anymore in their legion.

Since this Codex, the studio never changed the fluff about the WE librarians (so for the moment, they are all dead... till GW change the fluff again hehe)

Oh and an other one. The Citadel Journal created a World Eaters Berzerker named Scyrack the Slaughterer. Part of his background was that he is the one who killed the Legion's Chief Librarian to seal his pact with Khorne. But this is fan fiction (not from the studio, so this part of fluff isn't official).

/Mode fluff ns off :