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WastedWhiteBoy
15-04-2008, 05:31
I'm doing fluff on my chaos guys, who's leader happens to be a former night lords librarian, way back in the great crusade. As I've read, after konrad left nostramo the planet quickly degenerated back into a crime filled hell hole, which resulted in the night lords legion being replenished with criminals. The idea of the leader of my chaos boys being (WAAAY back in the day) a criminal master mind or some such seems pretty cool to me. Thing is...

Aren't space marines suppossed to be recruited from little kids? As in 10-12 or some such? I'm finding it hard to believe that the night lords could be full of vicious killers and malcontents when they where grabbing little boys. Personally, I think the whole astartes recruitment is one of the lamer pieces of 40K fluff, but I can't really deny it so yea.

So I guess my question is...how were the night lords full of criminals of the absolute worst kind when they were grabbing 10-12 year old kids and turning them into super soldiers?

Khaine's Messenger
15-04-2008, 05:46
Aren't space marines suppossed to be recruited from little kids?

It is reasonably well known that, circa the Great Crusade, mere mortal men could be augmented to join the ranks of the Astartes even if they wre well past the prime of youth...some of the most prominent examples are amongst the First Legion, but I'd think there would be plenty of others. Mind, they most assuredly didn't receive the geneseed. There were problems with this when it came to assuring loyalty and esprit de corps, though, which is why the practice didn't continue past the Heresy.


So I guess my question is...how were the night lords full of criminals of the absolute worst kind when they were grabbing 10-12 year old kids and turning them into super soldiers?

With respect to the in-universe explanation? Well, it was Nostromo. I'm not sure if the preteen gangers of Nostromo would make Necromundan gangers scared out of their wits, but that seems to be what one would be led to believe. That, on top of hypno-doctrination (if such techniques were used in those days) and basic training and socialization amongst the brethren would probably spread the behavior.

Lothlanathorian
15-04-2008, 06:11
Yes, during the time of the Great Crusade, it was possible to recruit post-teens into the Legions. With the Primarchs present, it was easier to make new Marines and the technology and methods of doing so were also better understood (I mean, the Emporer himself was there to tell them how to do it). 10,000 years later, knowledge has faded and technology has degraded (I am so using that in a song somewhere somehow) and it is harder to make Space Marines, therefore, they recruit young so it is easier to do the physical and mental alterations as the body is already in a natural state of change.

Son of Sanguinius
15-04-2008, 20:08
I know from experience that young children can be as viciously minded, arrogant, violent, and petty as adult criminals.

When a kid is raised in a bad environment, when crime and violence is all that he/she (he if we're recruiting for marines) knows, then it is very possible that they too will become a criminal.

So I can easily see a gang of criminally inclined youngsters inhabiting Nostromo at one point. Perhaps your librarian/sorcerer can be the former leader of that gang.

different13
15-04-2008, 20:15
Btw, the preferred age is 10-16.
Surely noone is arguing 14-16 year olds can't be vicious little bastards..

As for 10-year old criminals, well, someone needs to re-read Oliver Twist.

But in all seriousness, yes, the recruitment of space marines isn't one of GW's better fluff ideas. DoA is a case in point - sure, they're wearing (what must be miniaturised!) power armour, but 14-year olds taking down those scary beasties?

Anyway, the vast majority of Night Lords would have been criminals, by the time Kurze fled Terra. And after 10000 years in the Eye of Terror, I'm sure any who weren't, are by now.

Koryphaus
16-04-2008, 01:35
A Marine usually joins the ranks between the ages of 16-18. However they are obviously fully grown before then. - Souce: http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/initiation/3/

WastedWhiteBoy
16-04-2008, 04:23
Yea I'm not debating that little kiddies can be any less petty and violent than people my age or older. At first( and still a bit) I just found it hard to picture kids my younger sisters age being sadistic, violent killers and other such unpleasant things. Though after I thought about it some I can see it more; for instance, my gf's little brother is quite a bully that if someone doesn't step in will often hit and kick other kids (and as I've heard, often kids that are younger than he is, and smaller; he's a big kid for 9 years old) So take away the laws and rules set down by society, and I could see murder happening. Lord of the Flies and all that jazz.

So I guess my question really didn't need much thought at all, heh. I was just trying to come up with a Scarface or Frank Lucas style criminal kicked up a few notches; murder, drugs, extortion, acts of terrorism and a vast host of other crimes. Something that really wouldnt work with a youngster.