PDA

View Full Version : Shred This 2000pt Tomb King List



Archangel
15-04-2008, 09:42
Hi,
I am drawing up a 2000pt Tomb King army and would really appreciate some feedback. I think I can see some potential problems with my list, but I'd like a few other opinions to bounce around if poss. This is what I have so far, based mainly on the figures I like.

Tomb King leading a big unit of Tomb Guard. (I really like Khalida and her backgound\special rules, but think that she is too expensive for 2000pts and I already play a missile strong HE army. I'd like to stick with the Khalida figure and am putting her in a large, offensive, infantry unit.)

Two priests.

Three units of 4 or 5 chariots.

2 scorpions.

4 ushabti.

Is this going to be a cohesive force? Will the TG and Ushabti be able to keep up with the chariots and scorps? Should I replace 1 priest with a casket and play refused flank? This means I only have 1 priest though and he's stuck in one place, so he can't avoid any comets that should happen to fall! Should I put my King in a chariot and replace the TG with 2 units of normal skellies? You can imagine the sort of questions whizzing round in my head. Those of you who have more experience with TKs can probably see other problems as well.


On a seperate point what do Generals favour arming their Tomb King with?

I'm looking for a good, all round competative force that includes the models I like (scorps and ushabti). I like to sort out my armies on paper first and then stick with them. I can't afford to be buying figures which I then don't use!

Cheers.

Oenghus
15-04-2008, 13:49
You might have problems finding things for all of those chariots to hit. Two units of three or four ought, honestly, to be plenty.

TKs really need to max out their character slots to be effective. We -need- our magic to go off -- end of story. This is especially true if you're going to be playing a list with a lot of hard-hitting but relatively fragile units (like chariots and ushabti).

I'd suggest either the King afoot in your Tomb Guard Unit (give the unit the usual Rakaph or BotUDL and the King the Destroyer and maybe the Collar) or in a chariot with at least a flail (and maybe the Flail of Skulls if you can manage it). Then you back him up with 2 or three priests (the third one rides a casket if you can find the points).

The two scorpions are always a good idea. Only bury them if you need to. Otherwise, they're plenty fast enough to get where you need them to be.

Ushabti work fine in groups of three, if you're short the points.

Stick in a couple of units of skeletons, for bulk, and to take the brunt of any charges.

I'd back the whole thing up with either a catapult and a casket or two catapults, enjoy two or three turns of devastating shooting, and then collapse on the other army like a house falling over.

Archangel
15-04-2008, 16:35
Thanks for all that. I've also been searching and reading threads on the topic and have tweaked my original army to come up with this:

Tomb King with GW, Vambraces and the Gold Ankh, in a unit of 20 Tomb Guard with the Std of Rak.

Liche Priest + Casket,

Liche Priest + Cloak + Dispell scroll

Liche Priest + Dispell Scroll

2 Scorpions

4 Ushabti

4 Chariots

4 Chariots

12 Skellie archers.

My only worry is that it is a huge point sink on characters, about 800pts, which seems to me to be a very high proportion. Should I drop the Priest on the Casket and get another 30 odd skellies?

Oenghus
15-04-2008, 21:17
More Skellies are always welcome, of course... it's kind of up to you. Tomb Kings always have a disproportionately high expenditure on characters, though, so... I might suggest dumping the casket and keeping the priest, though, as it looks like you're going to be playing a fairly forward, aggressive game.

Consider putting your walking priests on horses. That way they can get further away from trouble a little faster.

Have you considered moving up to the 2250 point level? It's a fairly common points level (well, it is where I play, anyway) and it gives you a bit more flexibility in your list. It's also where the Kings start to seriously shine.

For the King, switch out the Ankhra for the Collar of Shapesh. It's way cheaper, and if the King's staying with the unit then the effect is (virtually) identical. Guard can always be re-raised anyway, right?

You can use the points on a couple of extra skellies or a better weapon for your King.

adreal
15-04-2008, 23:05
It's not so much a comment on your list, but scorps are a pain to put together.....If yuo don't like putting the first together drop the second from your list.

also don't feel bad about how much points are in your characters, you play undead and both flavours needs their characters, but TK especially because a tomb king isn't as hard as a vampire

Archangel
16-04-2008, 11:58
Seeing as Iam spending so much on characters anyway, I could drop the TK and the Priest on the Casket (500pts) and replace them with Khalida and a few more skellies with poisoned arrows. I could also then change the banner on the TG to the cheaper 25pt one that brings them back to life.
Going up to 2250 is a good idea and would enable me to enlarge the TG and get a few more skellie speed bumps. I've moved house and job recently so I am not a club at the moment so it might be do-able

Oenghus
16-04-2008, 13:16
I've never played a Khalida list, but I'd imagine that if you do you're going to want (at the minimum) thirty or so archers (probably in two different units, obviously).

Park Khalida in one and a priest or two in the other, leave enough spaces between them that your catapult(s) can see out, and start shooting.

It's sort of the antithesis of your original list...

Archangel
16-04-2008, 14:12
I agree, I'm drifting back to a 'stand and shoot' defensive approach which I really wanted to avoid.
So, no Khalida (just the figure), but if I'm going for an aggressive assault, does the Casket fit in? I can't guarentee that there will be a hill or such like in my deployment area, so how many turns will it actually be able to 'fire'? However most people I have seen play against Tomb Kings have been terrified by the Casket and are obsessed with eliminating it, which means that the rest of your incantations are virtually ignored until it's destroyed. Would a Prince in a chariot play better than the casket and be more points effective?

Archangel
17-04-2008, 09:36
Come on folks!! Surely Tomb King players aren't so thin on the ground? There must be some people out there who have either played with or against the Casket. Perhaps it's that stiff necked Tomb King pride getting in the way of helping out....

Anyway, I have decided to return to my original thoughts and here is my latest army list:

Tomb King+GW+Vambraces+Golden Ankh with 25 TG including full command+BUDL.
Liche Priest\Heiro.+Cloak+Dispell Scroll.
Liche Priest+Dispell Scroll.
Tomb Prince+Spear of Ant.+Ench. Shield+Lt Armour+Chariot with 3 Chariots.
4 Chariots.
2 Scorpions.
4 Ushabti.
10 Archers.
10 Archers. Total=1993.

So, has anyone out there in Warseer land got any opinions or thoughts on this?

p.s. Thanks Oengus and Adreal for your comments so far :)

adreal
17-04-2008, 10:28
When I used to play TK i used this list
TK in chariot of fire, golden ankrha, great weapon, enchanted shield light armour
Hierophant with cloak and hieratic jar
priest on foot with dispell scrols i think
priest on casket with staff of ravening (not that i ever used it)
20 - 30 archers (cant remember)
2 - 3 units of 3 chariots, one with a standard (undieing legion)
tomb scorpion
3 ushabti
SSC with skulls of the foe

maybe some skellie warriors, hand weapon a shield

this list did very well against all but VC, because my chariots couldn't break those undead units. Casket did get to fire most rounds (usually on a hill), even if I didn't think there was a target, I used it anyway.......sometimes htere was something I dodn't realise could see it.

Onto your new list (havn't used my kings in ages mind) I think 4 chariots will be unwieldly, stick with 3, 2 scorpions will be great, but I don't envy you putting them together, they suck big time.

If you can make 110ptas, put in a SSC, with smiting (i think thats the spell) being able to shoot twice, and maybe even get two panic teasts is a great thing, plus the magic shot can guess the range for you, meaning you will hit more in the shooting phase

Archangel
17-04-2008, 12:32
Thanks for that Adreal.

Both the SSC and the casket have the same issue in that they will sit at the back of my army, each tying up a priest to make it effective. This means a coordinated attack frommy army becomes much less likely as the different elements slowly stumble across the battlefield. If I were taking the archers\Khalida army then 2 SSCs and a casket would be the obvious way to go.

Interesting that no one has mentioned the Bone Giant, particularly as I am heading down the assault route. They often seem to be for sale on ebay at quite low prices, so I suspect they are not as awesome as they appear.

Esco Thomson
17-04-2008, 13:48
Come on folks!! Surely Tomb King players aren't so thin on the ground? There must be some people out there who have either played with or against the Casket. Perhaps it's that stiff necked Tomb King pride getting in the way of helping out....

Nope, we aren't...I just hadn't seen the post yet, been a bit busy with work and kids and all of that. I have played with and against the Casket of Souls many times. The Casket is ruined almost completely by any sort of magic resistance(self explanatory, but worth mentioning). The Casket works quite well in lower, or medium magic builds and defensive lists. It may never go off, but does generally force your opponent to save dice for it, allowing other incantations to go off. The minus one to casting and terror are nice bonuses for a defensive list as well. After just using it for five games straight I have again shelved it, as I still feel that the points value and the cost of keeping a Liche Priest there are just too great most of the time.

Anyway, I have decided to return to my original thoughts and here is my latest army list:

Tomb King+GW+Vambraces+Golden Ankh with 25 TG including full command+BUDL.

Nice defensive setup, though if you find the points, light armor and a shield is good. That way you can go defensive if needed (Hand weapon & Shield) and have even better defense. After all, against standard toughness 3 troops, you will wound on a 2+ anyways. I would drop the musician from the Tomb Guard, and try to squeeze in a magic banner here. Icon of Rakaph is fantastic for maneuverability, Icon of the Sacred Eye would be great to add a sizable more punch to the unit, or even the Banner of the Undying Legion to help with your magic and healing. I usually go with the Rakaph do to its near unlimited usefulness.


Liche Priest\Heiro.+Cloak+Dispell Scroll.

I would stick to the standard Cloak of the Dunes and Hieratic jar. I generally don't bring any scrolls, and if I do, it is usually only one. I think having that ability to fire off one more potentially game winning incantation is make or break it.

Liche Priest+Dispell Scroll.

Not much to comment on, he is vanilla, and has a scroll. Might want to try to find room for a Skeletal steed as 7th edition made no reason not to. Adds more range for our short incantations, and allows a bit more move to get out of dodge before combat arrives.

Tomb Prince+Spear of Ant.+Ench. Shield+Lt Armour+Chariot with 3 Chariots.

I like this setup, and when I take a chariot Prince, it is generally one of the two setups I use. Adds in a bit of punch and some much needed healing, along with the best save we can muster.

4 Chariots.

Good, perfect size for chariots.

2 Scorpions.

Great, never leave home without them.

4 Ushabti.

Fantastic models, great flankers, they just hate me. I always roll horribly with them, so I stopped using them until they decide they like me as much as I like them. I personally think that for your list however, to drop them. I would drop these guys to free up room for two Screaming Skull Catapults, and then you could add 5 archers to each unit as well.

2 x 10 Archers.

Small, but decent. Keep in mind that at this size they won't be anything more than a minor speed bump.

Total=1993.



My comments are in blue. I really think that overall it looks decent, but a bit unfocused and unrefined. You could easily drop a single Tomb Guard, and a musician and already have enough for the BotUL. The Ushabti vs. SSC choice is a bit more, but personally I think that you can flank and counter charge just as easily with a unit of four chariots. The SSC's are going to add enough incentive for your opponent to want to cross to you.

Archangel
17-04-2008, 16:29
Thanks Esco, great to read your feedback.

BUDL is the Banner of the Undying Legion, my Tomb Guard already have it.

My single Liche is now on a steed- good idea. He will now be able to keep up with the scorpions and Ushabti.

I can see your point with the H. Jar,I'll think about that one.

I really don't like the SSC figure and can't see myself ever buying it, also Ushabti are one of my all time favourites, so I will be sticking with these. Would 3 still be effective? That would give me some extra points to play around with.

Thanks again for your comments.

Esco Thomson
17-04-2008, 17:04
No problem, and oops :P didn't see the BUDL...

3 Ushabti I find are ok, I think 4 is preferred. It is similar to chariots, 3 will work ok, but 4 is proffered generally.

minionboy
17-04-2008, 18:09
Tomb King+GW+Vambraces+Golden Ankh with 25 TG including full command+BUDL.
Liche Priest\Heiro.+Cloak+Dispell Scroll.
Liche Priest+Dispell Scroll.
Tomb Prince+Spear of Ant.+Ench. Shield+Lt Armour+Chariot with 3 Chariots.
4 Chariots.
2 Scorpions.
4 Ushabti.
10 Archers.
10 Archers. Total=1993.


I don't play TK, but I've played against them a TON! 25 TG is way too big of a unit from what I've played against (even for VC, 25 GG are not worth it). You're much better off lowering them to about 15 or so, dropping an ushabti (3 is plenty), and getting a unit of spearmen. Using spear men to absorb the charge and hammering them with the TG is much more effective.

Also, I recommend switching your lord and prince, then give your lord that magic great weapon that hits all models in base contact twice. When you have a 50mm wide base, you're going to do some damage.

The biggest problem I see you facing is not having enough troops on foot to absorb charges for your chariots to hit, which I think would be solved adding the spearmen I mentioned above.

TK421
17-04-2008, 18:16
Also, I recommend switching your lord and prince, then give your lord that magic great weapon that hits all models in base contact twice. When you have a 50mm wide base, you're going to do some damage.

The Destroyer of Eternities is 'King on Foot' only :( Probably for that very reason

Esco Thomson
17-04-2008, 18:21
I don't play TK...

...and getting a unit of spearmen. .

No offense, but those two points pretty much sum up the fact that I think you are giving poor advice. Skeleton warriors with spears are a horrible waste of points. They are not meant to kill anything. Either serve them as archers for fire support, or hand weapon and shield to form an anvil of sorts.

Tomb Guard work best in numbers around 20-25, that way you have a very solid rank and file unit that can take charges, and still dish out some hurt. They really aren't suited for your counter charge tactic in an army which already has other fantastic flank and counter charge units(chariots/Ushabti).