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Arguleon-veq
15-04-2008, 15:15
How would you go about making an agressive Dwarf infantry list, and is it really viable?

I was thinking of leaving my semi gunline and going all out infantry.

A Strollaz Banner will get your army into the enemy as fast as normal infantry [quicker than normal if they usually have march blockers]. The Rune of Challenge helps dictate some of the play and you can have Miners coming on from the flanks or behind enemy lines.

The Thorek Anvil would obviously be a big help with this, letting you get off turn 2 charges with Dwarfs, but it really cuts back on how much infantry you can actually field. Is that worth it?

What about Rangers?

I was thinking of 2 small Miner units, Hammers, Iron Breakers, Ranger Longbeards, big Warrior block then a small unit of Thunderers.

The Heros being a Runesmith, Brotherhood Thane with Oathstone, Thane with Rune of Challenge, Battle Standard Thane.

100+ Dwarf Infantry. How would you see it working?

Atrahasis
15-04-2008, 15:21
I was just talking about this this weekend with my Warhammer life partner. Dwarves is one of the only lists I've never bought any models for, and we were discussing what build we would do if we did it.

We both agreed an aggressive infantry list as you propose would be our favoured list.

Rangers are useless though, as they HAVE to start in terrain, and even a unit of 10 will take 3 turns to get out of a wood :(

The anvil is definitely a very strong choice, but maybe you'd be able to pull it off without - having 2 or 3 units of miners turn up behind the enemy might be enough to upset the enemy, and you can get another couple of infantry blocks instead of Thorek.

I was planning to play around with lists this afternoon anyway, so I'll throw one up later on.

Arguleon-veq
15-04-2008, 16:16
Rangers just have to be out of sight and can be behind terrain. They could start behind a building or hill or something. They are expensive though.

Atrahasis
15-04-2008, 16:20
There'll rarely be a hill positioned such that a ranked unit can hide behind it. Buildings maybe, but you're gambling on a fairly uncommon terrain feature being in a fairly uncommon position.

Atzcapotzalco
15-04-2008, 16:50
Can work-while slow, dwarf infantry is also pretty reliable, meaning you don't have to worry about holes appearing in your battle line without considerable effort on the part of your opponent. A close combat army doesn't *have* to be across the board and fighting in your opponent's deployment zone in two turns to be viable, and at the very least I like to have one or two powerful fighting blocks as well as my artillery. To do otherwise is to waste one of the strengths of my army, and go from being slow moving to stationary-of my missile troops, only my artillery can even turn and fire in the same turn. I'll admit rangers can be tricky to deploy, but they can be a powerful asset, remembering that they also merit a more patient approach than expecting to pounce your opponent's artillery on turn one/two. If worst comes to worst, you can at least deploy them normally. Ranger longbeards do tend to get very expensive though-mostly I'd rather go with standard rangers in a large unit. The anvil of doom, I feel, is too many points in a model that's completely immobile, unreliable, and all too easily self-destructive. Thorek is a big improvement in reliability but even more points, taking up a full quarter of a 2000 point army. And still immobile. Better use of the character slots is a fighting lord and battle standard bearer to bolster your fighting ranks.

stonehorse
15-04-2008, 19:48
Here's a good Fighting Lord I've worked out, that does well in an agressive list.

Dwarf Lord, Shield Bearers, Great Weapon, Master Rune of Iron, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Stone, Master Rune of Spite. 201pts, that will laugh at the vast majority of Enemy characters. Sit him in a unit of Hammerers with some nice Runic Banner, I think a Rune of Slowness is a great way to help make sure the Hammerers and the Lord get the charge.

For units, I would go for a unit or two of Slayers, these guys will be what holds your flanks and makes sure that the enemy can't flank you.

With your last Special slot go for a unit of Iron Breakers or Miners, both will have their uses in this type of army.

Leave Thunderers and Quarrellers at home, take two Gyrocopters instead, the Thunderers and the Quarrellers are too slow, where as the Gyrocopters are very fast so can help March Block the enemy, and steam them to death, which is always useful.

I'd say don't take an Anvil or an Oathstone as these are too static for the army you are thinking of taking.

For Core, blocks of 20 Dwarf Warriors with Shields and full command are cheap and will help grind down the enemy, take as many as you can afford.

I'd take a Thane with the Battle Standard, give the Standard, Master Rune of Stromni Redbeard, Strllaz's Rune, and Rune of Guarding. This will help your Combat Result score go through the roof, gives you a boost before the first turn begins, and gives the bearer some protection. It is very expensive mind... so you'll need to help protect him.

A Runesmith with a Shield, and the Master Rune of Balance is I find enough to counter enemy magic, if you know that your opponent go heavy on the magic, take a Rune of Spellbreaking.

For that last Hero choice a Lone Dragon Slayer, with the Master Rune of Swiftness, and 2 Runes of Fury can be a very nasty surprise, and take on a Unit by himself on account of being Unbreakable... as long as it isn't a High Elf unit.

Have fun and I hope you get to right a few wrongs for all the Dwarf Clans.

Glimfeather
15-04-2008, 20:48
Hows this:

17 Hammerers w/ Full Command - +1 CR Banner HW, HA, GW, Shield (276)
Led by Thane General +1 Str +1 Att, w Shield, Rune of Resistence (Reroll failed saves), Rune of Stone (142)

19 Longbears w/ Full Command - +1 CR Banner, Rune of Determination (Take one break test on 1D6) HW, HA, Shield (298)
Thane with Mundane BSB, +1 Armor Save (100)

20 Longbeards w/ Full Command - +1 CR Banner, Ancestor Rune (4+ on 1d6 Count as Stubborn) HW, HA, Shield (300)

14 Warriors w/Full Command - HW, HA, Shield (151)
Runesmith with 3x Dispell Rune (147)

14 Warriors w/ Full Command - HW, HA, Shield (151)

Bolt Thrower with +1 Str, Rune of Skewering (2+ to hit once per game) (100)
Master Engineer with Throwing Hammer (Rune of Flight) and +1AS (115)

Bolt Thrower with +1 Str (85)
Engineer (15)

Organ Gun (120)

Flame Cannon (140)

Cannon with Rune of Forging (125)

2250 total, 109 models, 3 Dispell Scrolls, 5 Dispell Dice

I am playing this list tomorrow night, but I am thinking about making a few changes.

I don't like playing the game just standing around waiting for the fight to come to me, I like to take the fight to the enemy. I've only been playing for about a year, but I've never played a game where I waited for the enemy to show up in my deployment zone. Just doesn't sound Dwarfy to me.

Regards,

Chris

Arguleon-veq
15-04-2008, 23:12
Main problems with that list is that you have no way of dictating the play. The enemy can pick and choose its fights. You do have a fair bit of firepower though so it goes some way in off-setting that. I'd deffo take the Master Rune of Challenge on your Thane.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
16-04-2008, 13:02
Important units to aggressive Dwarf lists include Miners, Slayers, and Rangers (and the Organ Gun to waste Fast Cavalry and Skirmishers). I think some supporting firepower is necessary to support the infantry as it advances, but it is a fine balance because too much will leave you with not enough troops.

Dwarf Warriors are so damn cheap for what they give you, that large amounts of them are very important. Longbeards will also ensure that Panic does not screw up your battleline (unless you are extremely unlucky like me and fail multiple rerollable Panic checks on LD9 -- I included the Lord because of this bitter, humiliating experienice... :p ). I am not worried about enemy magic or shooting, because although I am slow, I have 140+ T4, LD9-10 models, most of which have at heavy armor, shield, and a reroll on their Panic check.

You can dictate fights to an extent because by deploying correctly, using your firepower correctly, and good use of Slayers and Stubborn troops can all easily tarpit enemy units long enough to bring your forces to bear. Even without, the BSB on LD 10 means that unless you horribly lose the combat (something that you shouldn't allow), you will hold and tarpit enemy units.

My list at 2250 is roughly:

Dwarf Lord /w MRoChallenge and other magic items (still tweaking this)
Runesmith /w 2xRoSpellbreaking
Thane /w Battle Standard + MRoGromril

Main Battle Line (from one flank to the other):

10 Slayers
25 Warriors /w Shields, Musician, Standard
19 Longbeards /w Shields, FC, RoCourage (BSB goes here)
1 Organ Gun
17 Hammerers /w Sheilds, FC (Lord goes here)
24 Dwarf Warriors /w Shileds, Musician, Standard (Runelord goes here)
10 Warriors /w Shields, Musician (work as a baiting unit and to redirect charges in my favor)

Support Units:

8 Miners (gives enemy artillery/missle troops headaches. I would take a 2nd unit if I had an extra Special slot. These guys are awesome)
10 Rangers /w Heavy Armor, Shields, GW, Throwing Axes (these guys are excellent. I wish I could take more than 1 unit. They are almost always my MVP)

Firebase:

10 Quarellers (these deploy on one flank, usually where Fast Cavalry or similar threats are)
1 Bolt Thrower /w Engineer, RoFire
1 Bolt Thrower /w Engineer, RoPenetration

soots
16-04-2008, 14:20
The most important thing about a dwarven offensive list imo is having no weak units.

They are too easily avoided so you dont want to give away points in small units that can be picked off at will. Keep the formation tight and dont give them anything to nibble at.

Thorgrim Brokenfoot
17-04-2008, 15:23
I am definetly goign to keep a look out for this logg... playing dwarfs myself, and a aweful lot of fun with balanced armies ;)

Keep the good stuff comming

GrogsnotPowwabomba
17-04-2008, 16:51
There is a great article at Bugman's Brewery on aggressive Dwarfs I suggest you check out.

Glimfeather
17-04-2008, 16:53
I am definetly goign to keep a look out for this logg... playing dwarfs myself, and a aweful lot of fun with balanced armies ;)

Keep the good stuff comming

If you haven't already been there, go over to www.bugmansbrewery.com for everything dwarfish.