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Mikari
13-10-2005, 23:07
I decided I'd start a tomb kings army but I'm having trouble working out how to equip characters. I'm going to pick up the battalion and the needed character models but I'm unsure how to arm them, I was looking at doing an archer heavy army. 3-4 units of 10 archers, 2 big units of skellies with hand weapons and shields. Then fill out specials and such. What would people advice to add to the battalion to fit this sort of army (lots of archers and some hard hitting counter attack units)?

I've searched through the other topics and they all say TKs are a bad starting army but I really like the feel of them and want to try them any way. I like undead but I can't stand the vampire twist the normal undead now has.. so Tomb kings it is. I don't mind losing at all, just as long as it's fun for all.

DeathMasterSnikch
13-10-2005, 23:52
Nice attitude towards the game. I can't realy help with characters as i havn't checked the TK book in a long time.

If your starting from skratch and want a archer heavy army i recomend the battalion and 1 or 2 more box sets then split them to how you prefer them to be armed.

And get a bone giant :) they are good.

kd7svh
14-10-2005, 01:05
The biggest piece of advice I can give you as a TK player is to always, and I mean ALWAYS take your maximum complement of characters. Personally I usually take a King, a Prince and two Priests at 2000. My King goes with my Tomb Guard, my Prince either in a chariot with the chariot unit if I take one, or in one of my skellie warrior units. I don't generally take a specific load out on my King/Prince but my Hierophant always gets a Hieratic Jar and the Cloak of the Dunes. Very typical (unfortenately) and you may get a bit of grumbling from your opponents about it but the fact is your Hierophant HAS to be as mobile as possible or he's dead (and that is a very bad thing).

I generally don't take archers (I like the good ol' Hand Weapon/Shield thing myself) and I would suggest taking the Tomb Queen if you go archer heavy but it is kinda cheesy and I doubt many of your opponents will enjoy playing against a Queen shooty army as they are pretty obnoxious.

Wickerman71
14-10-2005, 01:48
Good Advice up above,
Tomb King: Destroyer of Eternities & the Collar of Shapesh & place him in a large block of Skeletons.

Liche Priest that is your Heirophant: Cloak of Dunes & Neferra's Plaques

Other Lich Priest: Hieratic Jar & Dispel Scroll

Tomb Prince: pretty much up to personal taste though I find The Vambraces of Sun hard to pass up.

If you still want to go Archer Heavy I'd drop the Prince for a third Priest & flip the points for tha Casket & make sure you get both catapults with your rare choices.

StormCrow
14-10-2005, 02:57
for characters i usually give my priest with cloak of the dunes the staff of ravening as well

tomb king i usually put in a chariot with a great weapon, chariot of fire, armour of ages, and collar of shapesh, and put him in a unit with the mirage standard or with the icon of the sacred eye.

for liches the best items i've found are the hieratic jar, cloak of the dunes, staff of ravening, and Neferra's Plaques

bone giants are fun as are SS catapults.

tomb king archery is awesome against horde armies like skaven and orcs, and also very good against wood elves.

tomb guard are definetly worth the investment, especially if given banner of the undying legion or mirage standard.

as mentioned earlier always take as many characters as possible, but steer clear of the icon bearers. for a shooty army i'd get as many priests as possible.

chariot units are also very fun and can really mess up your opponents plans if led by characters.

at one stage or another you HAVE TO get a tomb scorpion. although i was quite lucky with dice rolls i once had one take out a unit of 16 dwarf warriors, no mean feat by anyones standards. best value monster for points cost in my opinion.

well thats all i've got

adreal
14-10-2005, 06:28
If you still want to go Archer Heavy I'd drop the Prince for a third Priest & flip the points for tha Casket & make sure you get both catapults with your rare choices.

unless he plays over 2000pts that's going to be hard to do, the casket takes up a rare choice too

NeuroNiky
14-10-2005, 15:14
I don't like much to go archer heavy, however I think if you do probably it is better if you give the army a more distinct MSU (many small units) feel: 50+ archers in units of 10, all the char you can afford, 1 Cat + 1 Casket or 2 Cat, and small hard hitting units to hit your enemy flanks when they connect with your archers (2x3 chariots is good, and you have to get a scorpion... it is THAT good...). 1 unit of 20/25 archers + the standard that gives them the free reform (originally called standard of As-Phalt... loved the original name, I still got the army book with that name in...) can be a great place for your king to stay, and it's a great unit to cast the double shooting spell too.
All in all, TK is a great army, but its not that easy to start with expecially because you can't effectively use it under 2k points, it's an hard army to play with with a lot of unque traits, and it needs a lot of patience and of practice to get consistent wins with. But, it's probably the most rewarding army I've tried in the WHFB system (and I've tried them all but OK and WE...).

StormCrow
15-10-2005, 03:32
tomb kings were the first army i used, i found it easy to get used to them in the small battles by playing team battles. at least that way i could blame someone else when i failed. you'll find the army becomes at least 3 times more fun to play when you hit the 2k points mark.

Gazak Blacktoof
16-10-2005, 22:14
Yeah tomb kings below 2000 points really are pants, play team games or buy an army in one go as you'll be sorely dissapointed with their performance. No magic= no movement and no movement= no fun.

I'm not sure how effective lots of archers are but a small unit or two certainly helps. However many archers you take make sure you include some carrion in the army as these can quickly move into march blocking positions thus giving you advantages in speed and allowing you to shoot for longer which will obviously be important to you. I'll get round to trying an archer heavy army out some day but so far I've been reluctant to try as usually there are only a couple of viable targets for bow fire in an enemy army. Archers only work well against high cost infantry and lightly armoured cavalry and monsters, obviously you can also shoot at skirmishers with tomb king archers too, these can't be march blocked though so you wont get many opportunities to shoot at them.

fubukii
17-10-2005, 07:21
tomb scorpions are insane always take at least 2, they are very good for their points. Also i highly suggest carrions for march blocking/mage hunting.

Mikari
17-10-2005, 07:33
I was thinking of taking 2 and putting them 1/3rd up the board on the flanks, then they should pop out either side of the enemy and munch into the flank protecting units where my ushabi can rush in and cut through the line.

Still main problem is how to equip characters since I'll be modeling them before I get the army book.

Maelstrom
17-10-2005, 08:52
The king is seen as the better of the two lord choices. I have been using TK since they came out with a year off and I find this character config to be the best.

Tomb King with vambraces of the sun (makes him unkillable in one round effectivly), crown of kings (he will soak up on average 3 dice a turn meaning your priest can rock and roll) great weapon (best weapon choice by far)

Hierophant with cloak of the dunes (he NEEDS to live and this is the best item to do that) hieratic jar (goes best on him as he will be casting his incantations last and so can spring the jar when it will matter most)

2 Priest with a scroll each, sometimes increase this to 3 total in a torunament

I have however found that without a doubt archer heavy TK suck sweaty balls. The points you spend on them really isn't worth it, i'd say take 2 units max. Personally I take one unit of 10 to hide my priest in when facing cannons and to kill a couple fast cav or skirmishers. Some armies will just wade through your hit on 5+ s3 shots and pound your archers in CC.

The one thing a TK army needs (apart from the obligatory scorpions) is a big meaty unit of 16 heavy cav with full command and war banner. This unit is an absolute monster, a possible charge range of 24 inches, us 32 and stactic combat res of 6 will auto break any thing that isn't immune to fear. I also don't see the wisdom of skellies with hw&s. If you want a hard unit take Tomb Guard with a Tomb King and banner of the undying legion. Been using this unit for 2 years hasn't died once.

fubukii
17-10-2005, 20:20
i like gw, +4ward +1wound armor on a chariot. (sorry i forgot their names!)

Mikari
17-10-2005, 21:52
Whats the difference between heavy and light cav model wise?

marv335
17-10-2005, 22:02
heavy cav have spear+shield, light cav have bows.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-10-2005, 22:05
No difference, just the equipment, they are both made from the same plastic models.

I have to say that equipment for tomb kings is unimportant in my opinion. Sure you need to make sure you have a decent combination but whether you go magic item heavy or light for your fighter characters seems to make little difference in the long run.

If you take an expensive weapon like the DoE you get a rock hard character but you loose out on improved magic (crown of kings) or alternatively you could have bought a unit of archers, a scorpion, a unit of carrion or a unit of horsemen for the same cost. Its down to personal preference really. What you do want to always take is the hieratic jar, probably the cloak of the dunes, vambraces of the sun, collar of shapesh, banner of the undying legion, the warbanner and if you take a unit of tomb guard then the icon of rakaph is also a must. These items are all rather cheap for what they do (sshhhhh!!;) ) they give you basic combat bonuses and benefits to magic casting both a must for tomb kings, or with the icon and rakaph and the cloak of the dunes give you greater manuverability to replicate or enhance the ability of your magic casting.

For me overall tactics for the tomb kings means a variety of units with differing combat styles; some ranged support, some block infantry, flyers and manuverable chariots and/ or ushabti to hit hard when you need it.

Mad Makz
18-10-2005, 06:21
I have just started collecting a tomb kings list, mine is more an aesthetic choice than going for the 'best list' (The best list is probably infantry heavy, a high priest, a liche priest, two tomb princes, two SCCs.)

I am trying out my Tombking with a slightly odd combination of items, sort of an all round tactics. Vambraces of Lightning, Golden Ankhra, Sword of Might, Icon thing (makes chariot US5). light Armour, Shield, Chariot. I'm putting him in a unit of 5 Chariots, with the Banner of Undying legion.

The extra unit strength item is so I can sneakily move him out of the unit by himself and do unexpected flank charges in the magic phase, plus it gives the entire unit unit strength 20 if they haven't lost a model, which makes it just a little better for the fear causing factor.

All this sounds like some odd choices I know, but I have played Skaven for a LONG time and have opted for a no infantry army this time right.

Yes, you heard me, NO INFANTRY. I am probably going to lose a lot, but that's ok, this is more to give me something cool to paint. :) I'll post the list.

StormCrow
18-10-2005, 06:56
if you're going no infantry then use this tip someone else posted in another thread (whose name escapes me):

16 heavy cavalry with full command and war banner will mop up almost anything in one round.

Mad Makz
18-10-2005, 07:36
I know, that a great unit, but I've already brought the 4 boxes of chariots. :)

I might consider them at a later date, but I want to try the three chariot unit, three ushabti unit list first.

I have a lot of 'toys' pointwise in the army as well, so I can probably afford that unit in the long run.

fubukii
18-10-2005, 08:08
yea heay cal do wonders on the charge unless of course you charge a chaos unit >.<

just be wary of bolt throwers or cannons heh

fubukii
18-10-2005, 08:08
yea heay cal do wonders on the charge unless of course you charge a chaos unit >.<

just be wary of bolt throwers or cannons heh

Scabby
18-10-2005, 15:44
Full size heavy cav with war banner is an excellent unit. Get the magical charge off, combined with a scorpion if you're lucky, and you'll auto-break most units.

A tomb king armed with the flail of skulls in a chariot unit with the Icon of the Sacred Eye is VERY GOOD. Useful against swarms, monsters, heavy cav, and fantastic in a challenge. I'll often go for the challenge as you're a shoe in for max overkill. Add in Crown of Kings or Golden Ankrha for taste. It's a very versatile combo for tournaments.

Mikari
18-10-2005, 16:00
in that case I'll make the horsemen from the battalion into heavy cal. I have no use for the CC stuff on normal skellies so they can go into the cav.

How effective are two chariots? I'd rather have a coupleof small units to sacrifice if need be and hassle enemies flank (hence slowing them getting to me), then keep big units (Ushabi and tomb guard) on the flanks (protecting them and) ready to charge anything which looks at the archers meanly.

Do defensive tombkings armys work? I have no problem seeing units die if it means I'm put in a much better position at the end of the day.

Mad Makz
19-10-2005, 00:36
I'd argue that defensive tomb king armies are some of the best Tomb King armies.

Two SSCs, 3-4 blocks of infantry (including tomb guard with the Icon of Rakaph), archers/ushabti/scorpions to taste.

Whaterver way you go (defensive or offensive) you may want to throw in a Tomb Prince, with the Scorpion Armour, Enchanted shield, Great Weapon orSpear (you don't HAVE to use the enchanted shield in a combat, so if you are facing knights it's better to use the great weapon for that. The spear is an ok alternative, and it means you can always use the enchanted shield, but I prefer the flexibility of the great weapon) on a chariot.

He can then hold up pretty much any opposing unit on his own for a couple of turns while you get another unit in a position to flank (Only takes one wound from combat res due to scorpion armour, if you are using the enchanted shield he has a 2+ save, 3 wounds and toughness 5. If they attack the chariot, no big deal, as he's still only taking one wound from combat res)