PDA

View Full Version : Will 5th Edition encourage the use of cover more than 4th edition does?



IG_Airborne_Ranger
17-04-2008, 03:02
Will players be encourage to send their units behind cover?

Jwolf
17-04-2008, 03:06
I think the opposite, actually.

gojira316
17-04-2008, 03:08
Since each cover save is being improved it should effect how often cover is used. However, the units that currently use cover more often will be even harder to kill. Devastators with a 4+ cover save in trees will be tough, the same goes for Broadsides and any other heavy weapon carrying unit.

BrianGeneral
17-04-2008, 04:06
I use cover for my Broadsides, FWs and Kroots already anyway.
But the Area Terrain don't block LOS will cause problem.

electricblooz
17-04-2008, 14:41
5th will encourage the use of realistic terrian decisions and will help put a stop to the stupidity of "let's call everything area terrain..." because, under 5th, the only terrain that will still block line of sight will be WYSIWYG terrain.

In other words in you can't see the model hiding behind that solid wall, then you can't see that model hiding behind that solid wall!.

While I personally think it's stupid to do away with the area terrain rules (apparently some people are so dense that they can't understand that, yes, while that strip of woods only has three tree models on it, it is really a dense twisted patch of undergrowth that you really can't see through).

sjwilliamsii
17-04-2008, 15:01
The area cover rule also will heavily affect Catachans/Death World Veteran and, IG units with jungle fighter Doctrines in a negative way. Since everyone has LOS through unlimited woods/jungle their only advantage (being able to see and engage through 12" of woods/jungle) because redundant and pointless. The more I think about it the more I am beginning to not like 5th as proposed, although I was a beta tester for Ars Magicka a couple of years ago and between the first beta and the finalized rules there were LOTS of changes and most of the stuff didn't even make it in the final draft. Not being able to move through units is also another hindrance for IG armies too.

Battle-Brother Wags
17-04-2008, 15:07
Will players be encourage to send their units behind cover?

Depends on what the unit is doing. If it is a shooty unit, i.e. devastators, a tank, etc, then I wouldn't be encouraged to do so. Why? Sure, I get a cover save, but so does EVERYTHING that I shoot at through the cover. Kinda counterproductive when you paid points for low AP weaponry. I would rather position those units within 2" of the front of the cover so they get the save but not their targets.

If the unit going behind cover is simply using it for cover (sounds redundant, huh?) while en route to someplace else, i.e. a transport or running infantry, then yeah, they run "behind" (whichever side puts the cover between them and the enemy) the cover to utilize the save. But this still is not as good as 4ed because now while they get a cover save, they can still be shot at, whereas in 4ed they would not be seen at all.

But as others have mentioned, I think that this will cause many more people to use other forms of terrain beside area terrain than currently are. I just hope they clearly define how vehicles interact with area terrain. The current concept in the PDF of "area terrain is abstract in its essence, but concrete when it comes to vehicles in or behind it" is more than somewhat problematic.

Mad King George
17-04-2008, 16:56
with run and cover saves for tanks. yes

zealousheretic
21-04-2008, 20:31
I'll still use cover. I don't get to roll armor saves otherwise :P.

I really, really like firing through units conferring a cover save, though, as it makes some armies (like mine) less reliant on there being decently abundant and placed terrain on the table. If all else fails, use gaunts as cover, that's more or less what they're for anyway.

Mulciber
21-04-2008, 22:50
Absolutely. I have played dozens of games under the rumored rules. The game has changed in a very distinguishable way.

To battle brother wags... you can shoot through 2" of cover and not give it to your opponent. Make sure your area terrain with buildings is designed accordingly.

As far as cover is concerned. It's universally a 4+ now, but you've forgotten to mention that it also has the ability with every non fearless unit to become a 3+! As far as keeping valuable scoring units alive, it doesn't get any better than that.

How games play now, with the changes to ordnance, running, and cover, Models out in the open are generally in transit. they are usually dashing for true cover or the 'cover of assault'. with a reduction in the overall LOS blocking of a table. (terrain designers are still responsible for creating LOS blocking terrain pieces. But there won't be an overwhelming amount of blocked LOS like some 4th tables) This means heavy weapons teams ESPECIALLY ones with templates will have the open areas covered. Models that leave cover do so at their own risk. these models generally run in the shooting phase.

Space marines and other 3+ save armies definitely are interested in cover. Mostly for their own scoring units. having 5 man combat squads remain scoring for long periods of time requires you to take cover for the 3+ cover save, you have few models that can score, and you need to preserve them.

Cover for vehicles is much more difficult to find and obtain (terrain designers are responsible for creating terrain that can obscure 50% of a decent sized tank.) On my table Ive made adjustments to my terrain layout for 5th edition, you can find vehicle cover on the corners of my destroyed buildings. there are probably about 4-6 feasable spots for a leman russ sized vehicle to obscure thier facing. Due to vehicle movement and side/rear armor concerns, some times there isn't really a good spot for your vehicle to go and get cover, and you won't magically have cover from any and all attacks, just those ones coming from your obscured facing. Terrain is set prior to determining whether or not you are playing long edges or corner deployment. So for vehicles cover is less of a gameplan, and more of an opportunity if one is available. You can create cover with your own vehicles however, and that is seeing more usage in my gaming group. People are actually using echelons and wedges for a reason other than 'it looks cool'.


heres a short answer to the OP question. yes 5th ed encourages the use of cover. It is such an encouragement that it promotes tactical movement and deployment, coupled with desperate dashes through killzones. More LOS and deadlier template weapons marries perfectly with increased cover. people are able to take more shots, and roll more dice, while keeping the end result or "level of deadliness" about the same as before.

P.S. the 4+ cover save has finally made the heavy bolter better at killing marines than the las-cannon. Can you believe it? An anti-infantry weapon better at killing infantry than one of the most specialized anti-tank weapons in the game?

Draconian77
21-04-2008, 23:11
"P.S. the 4+ cover save has finally made the heavy bolter better at killing marines than the las-cannon. Can you believe it? An anti-infantry weapon better at killing infantry than one of the most specialized anti-tank weapons in the game?"

This comes up in the playtests a lot. Lots of S5+ Multi shot weapons or Blast weapons rather then the single shot low ap weapons we are all use to using.

I always use every piece of terrain on the board, 5th ed won't change anything for me. 4+ cover in woods is nice for me because my Tyranids don't even get past your armour save...