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Lantern
18-04-2008, 17:49
Ok, this thread is inspired by the thread "I Feel Enlightened - Playing without the RBT" (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138698) .

Basically, I'm curious as to what units your sick of seeing, what ONE unit do you think that certain armies should try leaving at home for a change? Sick of seeing Pegasus Knights in every Bretonnian army? Tell us why? Wishing someone would use a High Elf army WITHOUT a mage? Vent away (just dont get too carried away, lol)

My own personal gripe is actually the old "too many bolt throwers" one. I've never seen a High Elf army without one(two :cries: ), and as a Bretonnian, it does make a mess of my army. Of course, the fact I used Bretonnians does lend logic to using the RBT, but still, I would like to try fighting just one High Elf army without those bolt, just to see what else is in the bloody list, lol. I'm sure the points would by at least one decent unit of infantry, or a couple of Eagles. I also think it would encourage more dynamic games than "Lets Shoot till they reach our lines and hope we've killed anough", allowing for a proper game of Warhammer centered around movementand tactics, rather than rolling dice until the enemy falls down.

theunwantedbeing
18-04-2008, 17:54
Vampire lords
Cairn wraiths
Drakenhof banner
Teclis
Star Dragon
Warlock engineers

On a slightly more serious note, I'de like my opponent to leave behind his ability to continually roll 4+ for everything

L192837465
18-04-2008, 17:57
any vampire player in general.

level 4 casters

cannon spam.

Lord Raneus
18-04-2008, 17:59
I don't think you can ask for HE to not bring any RBTs against Bretonnians. Honestly, it's like asking a guy to bring a knife to a gun fight. It doesn't work. There are some choices that are absolutely necessary for success against that army; for example, in 40k, if I'm fighting a Tyranid Gaunt horde, I'm going to bring a lot of Whirlwinds and Missile Launchers, to bring, say, plasma guns and meltas will cripple my army.

They could try a cavalry battle, but will probably lose due to lance formation and Blessing. As Elves against Bretonnians, you really do need to bring along something that can reliably shred those tin cans.

That being said, I'd love to see my opponent bring less Handgunners, whether I'm playing as DE or Bretonnians. Those bastards hurt!

505
18-04-2008, 18:01
I want my oponent to leave thier bad attitudes at home :D

Urgat
18-04-2008, 18:13
Caradryan. That goddamn elf (an elf, to boot!) is not a special character, he's a goddamn clone army spanning over the whole world.

MadJackMcJack
18-04-2008, 18:25
Their whole army. I win by default!

Emeraldw
18-04-2008, 18:35
Warmachines, I hate trying to spend so many turns trying to get rid of the damn things so they stop hurting my elves so badly.

soulcrusher
18-04-2008, 18:48
lol im sick of dryads , but soon i shall get my revenge yes very soon muhahahahaha! :evilgrin: bloodletters with killing blow and / or flaming attacks omg! im buzzing with exitement

black orcs p*** me of ok, ppl think there soo hard but they arnt, a detachment of halberdiers can do some serious damage to a unit and i have seen many battles where they have been overrun by zombies

another unit i hate! zombies, god:mad: they are pretty much useless ( well in my chaos spawnes eyes ) but when you try to kill them, they just stay there and keep getting raised, and with my new deamon army coming up it wil be even harder to take out those necromancers

kettan
18-04-2008, 19:07
Bret. archers. These guys wreck havoc in my elf armies :cries:

ZeroTwentythree
18-04-2008, 19:41
The anvil.

sulla
18-04-2008, 20:08
I don't mind my opponents bringing anything... well maybe 20 strong fury units. Surprisingly difficult to deal with.

The thing i'd most like my opponents to leave at home is VC single dice invocations spamming endless ghouls...:evilgrin:

Volrath
18-04-2008, 20:16
Leave your ego and rule nazi attitude at the door, let the easy going rambunctious fun attitude through instead, thanks.

Jack of Blades
18-04-2008, 20:24
Leave your ego and rule nazi attitude at the door, let the easy going rambunctious fun attitude through instead, thanks.

This man has it flowing.

Fraggzy
18-04-2008, 20:26
gun-lines and flamecannons, and it aint no use to ask people to leave war-machines cause no-one will dropp them annyway. As well as the mage, most armies need one mage atleast for improved magical defence.

larabic
18-04-2008, 21:27
gun-lines and flamecannons, and it aint no use to ask people to leave war-machines cause no-one will dropp them annyway. As well as the mage, most armies need one mage atleast for improved magical defence.

I would like nothing better to leave my flame cannon behind, if i had any other rare choices that weren't warmachines... boy i hope dwarfs get an infantry rare choice.


I would like to see people leave the steam tanks at home... there was only supposed to be 10 or 12 of them but it seems ever 1000pt patrol that leaves the castle has one... i would like to see that requisition form come across a clerks desk.

"Er, yes well me and the lads were going to walk the road to the mine to be its sure its safe... can we borrow the tank?"


Big ole stamp: "Request Denied!"

ZeroTwentythree
18-04-2008, 21:36
Nothing forces you to take a rare choice.

I frequently go without any rare choices.

Lord Raneus
18-04-2008, 21:42
Leave your ego and rule nazi attitude at the door, let the easy going rambunctious fun attitude through instead, thanks.

Remember, if your Bretonnian Knights get charged by Ironguts, just grin and try to suppress your emotions! You can cry after the game. :D

Makaber
18-04-2008, 22:00
Well, okay, treemen.

Treemen were obviously made the way they are because wood elf armies don't have a lot in the way of units capable of taking a charge, so I guess they figured that if a wood elf player wanted to think outside the box and make a melee oriented force, they'd need some sort of anvil. Makes a lot of sense really, because all their offensive melee units (wardancers, dryads, and wild riders) lacks static CR and really benefit from being able to fnak. And I guess the treeman was though of as the solution to this problem. This is all good on paper.

The problem is, the damn thing is just way, way too successful. Compare it to any other monster (except dragons, which fill a different niche, being flyers) out there and it's hands down superior, cost considering. The list of things about it that irks me is pretty long.

First of all, for a monster to really pose a threat in my book, it needs either toughness 6, or a 3+ armour save. The treeman has both, and 6 wounds, and a 5+ ward. Now, I can understand this to some degree, it's supposed to be a very die hard monster. It irks me a little that it has both high toughness and a very good armour save though. For everything else, toughness represents bulk and density of the creature itself, while armour represent the hard to penetrate outer layer, be it armour or scales or whatever. I just don't see this applying to the treeman. Is it covered with super-bark or something? You'd think a superior toughness backed up by a ward would be good enough, but no.

Now, if it "only" was the most die hard monster in the game I'd accept it and live with it, but it's too damn dangerous, too. Good weapon skill, huge strength, and a decent enough amount of attacks. I don't remember its initiative, but I'm pretty sure that's too high as well. And it's fast! How come a living tree is given that sort of brisk pace? It's very silly.

Finally, don't get me started on the absolutely, utterly ridicilous and needless shooting attack. Of all the idiotic decitions game designers have made, giving a fast, near-invulnerable powerhouse of a living tree a shooting attack to boot is pretty high up there in my book. What's next, that it can cast spells as well? Oh wait.

Last tournament I played in (local, mid-size affair, great atmosphere) I fielded an eclectic shock infantry army. Tested and true, I was quite proficient with it, and was really looking forward to trying my wits with it against people outside of my normal gaming group. It's one weakness: Relying heavily on masses of low strength attacks to generate CR, tough stubborn monsters might pose a problem. I took that risk. Over the weekend, I played six games. Four (!) of those were wood elf players, total treeman count: Six. Two of them had a pair of the damn things, while the other two had more conventional magic and shooting armies, but still fielded one each. And why wouldn't they? It's just. Too. Good.

Rant over. To sum up, it's a good idea gone too far, turning an army that was supposed to rely on guerilla tactics into this immovable object of floraic doom. The best monster in the game, at bargain price, in an army that really doesn't need it. Damn you, treemen. Damn you right in the face.

ferda
18-04-2008, 22:02
varghulf, helm of commandent

Aurellis
18-04-2008, 22:04
I'm sick of seeing large units of Swordmasters. Every High Elf player i know runs at least one large unit, it gets a little much after a while

Havesome
18-04-2008, 22:14
I will second what Aurellis said. I play against quite a few HE players and I don't think I have seen them play without a unit of Swordmasters since the new book came out. Boo!

silashand
18-04-2008, 22:26
what ONE unit do you think that certain armies should try leaving at home for a change?

The Green Knight
Grimgor (or any SC really)
War Altar

I'm a bit tired of always having to expect to face idiotic SC constructs because my opponents can't come up with anything unique on their own. Players don't choose them because "Wow! Did you read Mannfred's background? He's just so cool!" No, they choose them because they are the obviously better and more powerful choice in most instances. Sorry, but as I have said many times, SCs are the worst thing to happen to all of GW's games, period.

Special Characters have gone a long way toward dampening my enthusiasm for the game as a whole. Thankfully when I run campaigns they are still banned and based on the current GW mentality, it will stay that way for the indefinite future. If GW don't like that, they can kiss my behind.


Leave your ego and rule nazi attitude at the door, let the easy going rambunctious fun attitude through instead, thanks.

Fun? Sorry, but having to face Grimgor *every single time* I play against a OG player is hardly fun. Seeing the Green Knight in *every single* Bretonnian army I know of isn't great either. They can be mitigated, like everything can, but facing the same boring list over and over gets old. That's why when I run events I disallow all that cookie cutter special character nonsense.

Cheers, Gary

sulla
18-04-2008, 23:24
I don't mind my opponents bringing anything... well maybe 20 strong fury units. Surprisingly difficult to deal with.

The thing i'd most like my opponents to leave at home is VC single dice invocations spamming endless ghouls...:evilgrin:

Reflex
18-04-2008, 23:45
I want my oponent to leave thier bad attitudes at home :D

dammit beat me to it :evilgrin:

High Elves without swordmasters and bolt throwers..

thats like bretonnians with out knights?

Bretonnian Lord
18-04-2008, 23:47
I love it when my friend brings Swordmasters to the table. :D My Bowmen and Trebuchets love 15 pt elves with only a 5+ save!

theunwantedbeing
18-04-2008, 23:53
Yes swordsmasters are brilliant troops to just fire at with anything you happen to have available.
Even my dark elves love them....and we hate them!

NakedBarbarian
18-04-2008, 23:53
My opponent can leave at home;

Any type of special character = cheese

Anvil = cheese

casket of souls = cheese

Gunlines = cheese

Basically you can conclude from this i hate playing against dwarves and tomb kings

rob_bot
19-04-2008, 02:13
I want my oponent to leave thier bad attitudes at home :D



Leave your ego and rule nazi attitude at the door, let the easy going rambunctious fun attitude through instead, thanks.

QFT. If those both quotes were followed, noone would have a problem with ANY unit fielded by the opponent

Greymarch
19-04-2008, 03:08
Helm of Skavenslaying. Every. Damn. Game. Do they mass produce them?

Reflex
19-04-2008, 03:25
Helm of Skavenslaying. Every. Damn. Game. Do they mass produce them?

that will teach you for being a giant rat :D

IronBrother
19-04-2008, 03:39
Thorek Ironbrow and his stupid Anvil. I mean what do the dwarfs do sneak onto the battlefield and lay out the bricks and mortar for the damn anvil. Oh yeah don't forget that Kraggi has to build that stupid fireplace. That is why that guy gets killed turn one every time. I hate that guy. Leave him home.

silashand
19-04-2008, 05:46
Thorek Ironbrow and his stupid Anvil. I mean what do the dwarfs do sneak onto the battlefield and lay out the bricks and mortar for the damn anvil. Oh yeah don't forget that Kraggi has to build that stupid fireplace. That is why that guy gets killed turn one every time. I hate that guy. Leave him home.

Based on all the other crap SCs out there, I have no problem with Dwarf players being allowed their own cheese character. IMO if you want them to leave him home, then leave your own piddle-head SC home too.

Besides, the Anvil used to be on wheels. What GW was thinking when they made all such things like the Anvil, Cauldron of Blood, etc. immobile I dunno.

Cheers, Gary

snurl
19-04-2008, 05:52
Flatulence would be best left at home.
And the know-it-all argumentative type can stay home too.

mistformsquirrel
19-04-2008, 06:09
Body odor.

Please - take a shower (WITH SOAP - just water doesn't cut it!); and then put on some deodorant.

Really that goes for anywhere you may travel for any reason. >.>m Its not good when the 40k players constantly look over their shoulders for a Valhallan with a Meltagun.

scarletsquig
19-04-2008, 07:47
I've never really had any units that I've flat-out hated, mainly due to some reasonable regular opponents in the past.

Never seen any of these cheese lists that the internet gets plastered with, at least not with fantasy anyway.

isidril93
19-04-2008, 08:51
night goblin fanatics

a unit of 19 spearelves with a noble was attacked by 3

all 3 hit

one turned back

they had 5 spears left

Lordsaradain
19-04-2008, 08:52
Body odor.

Please - take a shower (WITH SOAP - just water doesn't cut it!); and then put on some deodorant.


So true. Wargamers tend to stink. :S

I was gonna write the units I hate dealing with here, but then I realized that it's precisly those units/combos that you hate, that you need to face MORE often! Eventually you will develop a good strategy for getting rid of them, and that's what make's you a better general. You cant just avoid the units you hate facing, eventually you will be pitted against them anyway, so you might as well be prepared.


Damn you, treemen. Damn you right in the face.

Still, can't help but agree with you here. The treeman gives me the shakes.

ehlijen
19-04-2008, 09:51
The jaguar charm. Seriously. It is one item, out of how many available to the lizardmen? But you'd think it is the only one they have that scar vets can take...

I don't have anything against it (apart from possibly being too good compared to the rest it seems) but it's always only ever that one and little, if anything else. There must be something else worth taking in the LM list somewhere...

DarkSpawnie
19-04-2008, 10:16
Vampire lords

any vampire player in general.

Jesus christ, get over it is all I have to say.

I have to agree with several other players, bad attitude to games.

chaospantz
19-04-2008, 13:52
1. Rule nazi's. If your not having fun playing the game then why are you here. And if your gona be the nazi then at least get the rules right.

2. Special Charcters. They should be used for random fun games not tournaments. Should also cost about 200-300 points more than a normal charcter.

3. Players that stink. Takeing a shower works a lot better when you stand in the water.

theunwantedbeing
19-04-2008, 14:08
Jesus christ, get over it is all I have to say.

I have to agree with several other players, bad attitude to games.

How does one "get over it" ?
It's a serious question.

People who come out with such comments confuse the heck out of me.

Lord Raneus
19-04-2008, 15:39
I could also live without Fanatics, but I'm not going to complain about them, as they're one of the main strengths of the army. :P It'd be like my opponent complaining about me taking Knights of the Realm.

Still, I'm going to try baiting out Fanatics with Mounted Yeomen and laughing as they wreck my opponent's own army. We'll see how that goes, I guess.

Falkman
19-04-2008, 19:01
Well, okay, treemen.
[snip]
Rant over. To sum up, it's a good idea gone too far, turning an army that was supposed to rely on guerilla tactics into this immovable object of floraic doom. The best monster in the game, at bargain price, in an army that really doesn't need it. Damn you, treemen. Damn you right in the face.
Amen Makaber, when I play with Wood elves I never take a Treeman, they're just too simple to use, not at all what I'm looking for when I'm playing elves.



casket of souls = cheese
Just dispel it?
It's hardly cheese, except for that and the catapult the Tomb kings are really quite subpar as far as armies go.

sulla
19-04-2008, 23:41
A
It's hardly cheese, except for that and the catapult the Tomb kings are really quite subpar as far as armies go.

Agreed. the casket is dreadful vs fast enemies. My favourite stupid thing about the casket is that if a single character charges it, the hierophant is the only guy stupid enough to accept the challenge and the killing blow great weapon guys stand there cheering him on till they crumble...

Cragspyder
20-04-2008, 01:42
The Hellcannon :( I am sick of that S10 template with rerolls to scatter, backed by a Ichor-spewing killing machine.

Also, Lords on Dragons of any type.

Shamfrit
20-04-2008, 01:54
Terror when I'm using Skaven.

Simple enough.

WEEEEEE! Terror Bomb, good game, bye!

Laurela
20-04-2008, 02:39
Dragons 8(

intellectawe
20-04-2008, 03:01
Thorek Ironbrow and his stupid Anvil. I mean what do the dwarfs do sneak onto the battlefield and lay out the bricks and mortar for the damn anvil. Oh yeah don't forget that Kraggi has to build that stupid fireplace. That is why that guy gets killed turn one every time. I hate that guy. Leave him home.

With the latest army book power creep, I have no issues with Thorek anymore.

Whats that? Your VC army has HOW MANY SC's in your list? Everything regenerates, nothing crumbles anymore due to regen. You got a dragon riding hero/lord who can auto hit you with his strength 7 spear, and then get additional attacks from your blood line. Oh, Vampires can take 200 points worth of magical yumminess!?!?! So you also produce 10+ PD without even trying anymore? VC don't have the army dilemma of "Should I go combat characters or magic heavy" like every other army out there, as they do BOTH without even breaking a sweat?

Yeah... The Anvil isn't broken anymore. Not by a long shot.

So yeah, you can leave you whole VC army at home. GW suckered you into buying new models, congrats, you fell for it. I guess they saw sales from Empire and Orcs werent decent due to them being 'average'.

javaguru
20-04-2008, 03:28
With the latest army book power creep, I have no issues with Thorek anymore.

Whats that? Your VC army has HOW MANY SC's in your list? Everything regenerates, nothing crumbles anymore due to regen. You got a dragon riding hero/lord who can auto hit you with his strength 7 spear, and then get additional attacks from your blood line. Oh, Vampires can take 200 points worth of magical yumminess!?!?! So you also produce 10+ PD without even trying anymore? VC don't have the army dilemma of "Should I go combat characters or magic heavy" like every other army out there, as they do BOTH without even breaking a sweat?

Yeah... The Anvil isn't broken anymore. Not by a long shot.

So yeah, you can leave you whole VC army at home. GW suckered you into buying new models, congrats, you fell for it. I guess they saw sales from Empire and Orcs werent decent due to them being 'average'.

In the last book VC's were able to take bloodline powers plus magic, not a valid point for blaming that breaking the book; You know they don't count as magic. They also lowered the stat line for vampires as well as their access to ward saves, they are not as combat effective as the last book. The thrall is a lvl1 but went up 20 pts in cost and has to take bloodline powers to get mundane equipment. Don't get me started on the uselessness of zombies....I'm going ghouls 24/7.

intellectawe
20-04-2008, 04:05
Oh yeah.... I never fought VC's before, but please, with the people at my store gobbling up VC's, they obviously got a power explosion.

I see no weakness in this army what so ever.

Alathir
20-04-2008, 07:53
Handguns, they make my knights cry.

Varghulfs, they make my elves cry.

That Lizardman magic banner of extra D6" movement, it makes me cry.