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Ezekiel
20-04-2005, 13:00
Now, i have been reading some Tzeentch tactics and i often read that Tzeench Chariots can fly, but i cant find this anywhere in the armybook.

And, can flyers charge unites they cant see? Like, if they are behind behind a friendly unit, can they charge a unit in front of that friendly unit?

Thanks :)

Avian
20-04-2005, 13:44
1) Tzeentch Daemonic Chariots from the Daemonic Legion list can fly. Other Tzeentch Chariots can not fly.

2) Nothing can charge enemies they can't see.

therisnosaurus
20-04-2005, 14:22
yes, the only flying chariots are tzeentch daemonic legion chariots. however, these, while they can't charge units they can't see they CAN charge over friendly or enemy units, making them ridiculously nasty. stick a couple behind a unit of horrors, wait for the enemy to get into range and chuck them and maybe an exalted into the front. death for the whole family.

Major Defense
20-04-2005, 19:25
Do horrors not block line-of-sight or something? I guess I just don't understand that bit.

Keep in mind that flying models that fail a charge still move 20" instead of halving it like normal charges. The best place for a Tzeentch chariot is up on top of a piece of terrain. Yes, they're more vulnerable to shot there but they can charge any unit they can fit in front of.

squiggoth
20-04-2005, 20:17
AFAIK, flying units can only charge over units when they're Large Targets, which Daemonical Tzeentchian Chariots aren't - only Plaguebearer and Bloodletter chariots are Large, but they don't Fly.
The Flying Circus may be broken, but it's not THAT offensively broken ;)

Major Defense
20-04-2005, 20:49
This has me thinking about the Black Coach, which is also a large target. Say you have some unit's positioned like this...

B. C.
B. C.
B. C.
B. C.

z z z z z
z z z z z
z z z z z
z z z z z




e e e e . . . . f f f f f
e e e e . . . . f f f f f
e e e e . . . . f f f f f
e e e e . . . . f f f f f

B.C = Black Coach
z = zombies



So as long as the zombies declare a charge on unit "f" to move out of the way, can the Black Coach declare a charge on unit "e"? I suppose the zombies could also charge "e" and the coach "f".

If that much is true, why wouldn't they both be able to charge the same unit?

MarcoPollo
20-04-2005, 23:14
That's a very good point Major Defense makes. I suppose that as long as you declare a charge with your zombies first and maximized frontage then you could pull off that charge. That is very sneaky and I like it. That means my steagadon, giant and other large non-flying creatures can pull off that charge too.

I suppose this would also work with swarms. Since most swarms are considered small, like the jungle swarms of Lustria, you could position any unit behind it and dclare a combined charge. You can see over the swarms and the units knows that there is an opponent in charge distance.

I'm not sure but if nurglins are small creatures, this could represent unique possibilities for undivided that include khorne and nurglings.

well done major

Ezekiel
21-04-2005, 10:32
Ok, thanks for all the help, just wondering about one thing.
When you are talking about daemonic legion, is this simply an army led by a daemon or...?

Thanks guy =)

Selsaral
21-04-2005, 14:44
Nope the Daemonic Legion army list is a special, standalone army list that came out with the Storm of Chaos. It's posted right on the games workshop site, so go check it out! It's very, very cool, with lots of unique powers and abilities (and disadvantages).

Festus
21-04-2005, 17:55
So as long as the zombies declare a charge on unit "f" to move out of the way, can the Black Coach declare a charge on unit "e"? I suppose the zombies could also charge "e" and the coach "f".
Yes and Yes.


If that much is true, why wouldn't they both be able to charge the same unit?
They are able to charge the same unit.

Greetings
Festus

Festus
21-04-2005, 17:57
That's a very good point Major Defense makes. I suppose that as long as you declare a charge with your zombies first and maximized frontage then you could pull off that charge. That is very sneaky and I like it. That means my steagadon, giant and other large non-flying creatures can pull off that charge too.

I suppose this would also work with swarms. Since most swarms are considered small, like the jungle swarms of Lustria, you could position any unit behind it and dclare a combined charge. You can see over the swarms and the units knows that there is an opponent in charge distance.

But remember that the enemy's frontage is split EVENLY between two or more charging units.
And that charge paths may never cross each other.

Greetings
Festus

MarcoPollo
21-04-2005, 18:44
So,

I cannot find that crossing paths rule in the Big Rules Book. But it does seem to make sense. However, if they are lined up exactly behind each other and the one behind it can see over it, then it would make sense that the charge could be combined and the charger should be able to determine the position of his two units. But if there is a clear preference for a charge on one side, then I think it would be fair to have the chare position predetermined.

Is this correct?

Avian
22-04-2005, 10:35
Correct. The only thing that stops it happening regularly is that generally both units will not be able to charge, due to at least one being out of range.

Major Defense
22-04-2005, 13:28
I cannot find that crossing paths rule in the Big Rules Book.

Check the appendix sections in the back. One of them covers charging and ammounts to "not crossing paths" in the description. Of course this is in reference to units charging the same enemy unit. Friendly units may cross paths when charging seperate enemies because charges are moved individually.

Festus
22-04-2005, 14:58
p. 268

Greetings
Festus