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View Full Version : 2000pts Beasts Of Chaos. (My First FB list.)



wickedvoodoo
20-04-2008, 16:55
Hey,

So i am making the transition from 40k to fantasy battle (first post in this part of town) and i am working on a beasts list.

I have made up a list, (technically the title is wrong now, this list is now my second, i changed it up a bit based on advice from _lucien_ and because of stuff i have read in other tactics threads) please bear in mind that i am very new to these rules so go easy on me. Also the list was sort of written with finance in mind, i am going to use plastic wolves as hounds etc. I like lots of plastic because i can get it at a pretty good discount, the chariots are the only real expense.

I have put the units together how they would be grouped in a game rather than how they are selected from the unit categories. the army does conform to the min/max number of different types.


*****Attacking Force*****

Beastlord Chariot - Slaughterers Blade, Horn Of The Great Hunt, Pelt Of The Dark Young, Heavy Armour 281
Tuskgor Chariot - 85
Tuskgor Chariot - 85

Chaos Giant - 205
Chaos Giant - 205

Shaman - Level 2, Braystaff, Chaos Armour, Dispell Scroll 151

Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30


*****Ambushing Force *****

Shaman - Level 1, Braystaff, 2x Dispell Scrolls, 131
Shaman - Level 1, Braystaff, 2x Dispell Scrolls, 131

Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115

Total 1999

I envision the attacking force will set up pretty tightly, with the wolves running ahead to hopefully draw fire. The chariots and giants should be hard enought o be the main body of the army. I am going all beastlore with the shamans i think, the first shaman gets level 2 so hopefully he will roll at least one of the two spells i want for him, 'the oxen stands' and 'the beast cowers'. Slowing down enemy cavalry so that i get to dictate charges sounds great, as does the automatic rally spell.

I wasn't keen on the ambushing thing at first, mostly because of the low Ld test that has to be taken first. However i think using the horn of the great hunt and lots of smaller units could be enough to make sure i get enough herds in vital places. These shamans are really just for the dispell dice and scrolls. I am going to put them in two of the beastherds, as they are pretty likely to get to combat i will probably just pick 'the bears anger' for the easy cast roll and the nice CC boost.

I think that 5 dispell dice a turn and 5 scrolls across the army should give me an adequate magical defence and the chariots and giants give the army some hitting power. Hopefully the wolves and ambushers will harass and draw fire enough for the main line to make it across the board relatively unscathed,

What do you think? Is this a viable army or will it suck? I really like the feel that this army has to it so i am hoping it gets an ok from some of you guys who have more experience with the FB rules. Im not looking for a tournament winning super list, but i would rather not lose every game i play.

Cheers in advance.

_Lucian_
20-04-2008, 17:47
I can see your logical although your chariots will actually be moving slower than your beastherds (incase you didnt know chariots cannot march so are limited to 7" a turn unless they charge). with this in mind you may wish to use them as the hammer to your herd ambush. I find with my herds that even 20 strong they arent capable of taking down similar sized units due to the lower static res and shocking ld. Giants are a selection i peronally never take as i find minataurs more reliable and offensive (you could alway green stuff some ogre bulls if your concerned about price), although i could see the use for a single giant. Generally i find your army quite interesting however chariots are best used supporting infantry, providing the punch for your herds to break there opponents. Hounds work extremely well and i love them to pieces although make sure you get them away from your main ld8 units because panic will be a huge problem for your army. Apart from that i think its fairly solid if you like the theme, although keeping ur BSB alive will be difficult.

If you open to change you might want to consider minatuars and furies, they provide a serious punch (relative) and have never let me down. Also maybe get rid of the gore banner and just take some magic armour (damnantion is nice) to provide abit more flexible punch while still keeping the re-rolls. Although the choice is all yours

wickedvoodoo
20-04-2008, 23:25
Cheers _Lucien_ some very helpful stuff there.

I am not totally against the ambush thing, i just kind of like the idea of a battle line of beasts. Based on what you said and on what i read in a couple of other tactics threads i have come up with another list. It still uses all of the models i want to use and will probably work a bit better. I edited it into the first post rather than write a second one two posts down.

Oh one particular question, is the equiptment i have chosen for the lord a good load out? I dont like the idea of him going last but the slaughterers blade fits in with the great weapons of the other chariots. Plus the ability to recover wounds helps make up for not having a ward save. Another thing in the entry for the pelt of the dark young it says can be combined with normal armour. This does mean i can wear the pelt and a set of heavy armour right? its not just referring to being able to carry a shield is it?

The Red Scourge
21-04-2008, 08:24
Generally i find your army quite interesting however chariots are best used supporting infantry, providing the punch for your herds to break there opponents. Hounds work extremely well and i love them to pieces although make sure you get them away from your main ld8 units because panic will be a huge problem for your army. Apart from that i think its fairly solid if you like the theme, although keeping ur BSB alive will be difficult.

Well.. The Chariots won't arrive on the other side till turn three (Which will be the same time, as the ambush herds will be able to charge. With the exhorbitant amount of warhounds, most of his infantry will be able to hide in ambush – i wouldn't go for the giants either though. Rather use dragon ogres, as they pack a mean punch ;)

Oooh.. And you have to be on foot to use the Slaughterers Blade – alternately you can go with the Dark Maul, Berserker Sword or Blade of Blood – the last coming from HoC.

Sterling
21-04-2008, 10:47
lets see... my opinions;
5 scrolls is too many by 1 or 2. personally, I take 3 and some people think I have too many. I would also have 2 on the shaman starting in play, since they will be available 1st turn.

you have no marks of chaos at all in your army, you also haven't used a single special slot. I would suggest a unit of furies... alternatively, a unit of screamers. If you want a unit of screamers, then change one of your ambushing Shaman into an ambushing wargor with Mark of Tzeentch with goretooth and chaos armor. Bear's anger is a good spell when cast on a Shaman, but an awesome spell when cast on a wargor.

on your other ambushing shaman, the Staff of Darkoth should not be overlooked. It allows an extra movement for one of your ambushing herds, which could be a charge on the turn they com into play.

Pontus
21-04-2008, 10:57
I have to agree some with previous posters.

Furies is a must. A small unit should suffice.

I would not switch out the giants for dragon ogres. Your army will have problems with psychology (terror in particular), so having two of your own will help.

Switch out a dispel scroll for the dark heart. I personaly find this item very usefull!

wickedvoodoo
21-04-2008, 14:15
Okay cheers guys, this is good stuff, you have been a big help already, i am still not too clued up on the tricks and tips of fantasy battle, i keep reading bits of the book and tactics threads, i am slowly getting there.

So i have amended the list further.



@ Pontus & Sterling.
I am not happy with the idea of patron marks or daemonic units. I want this to be a beastmen army, undivided all the way. However i have heeded the other advice you gave, i have swapped out some scrolls for mostly movement boosting magical items.

The two ambushing shamans have items that i feel fit in with the 'combat shaman,' the dark heart lets one charge further and the gore tooth lets one reroll attacks. Combine these items with 'the bears anger' which both of these will have and they should be pretty good fighters.

The attacking force shaman will probably pick shadowlore so that i can get the easy to cast 'steed of shadows.' That way i can fly him to a nice spot in turn 1, then i can use him to catapult the ambushers into combat. I love the sound of this tactic,the concept of a shaman lifting up in the air and flying across the battlefield using his powers to spur on the herds below him is about as cool as it comes. However i am slightly worried about that if 'the wild call' is my only high cast spell then opponents will just focus on keeping that one dispelled. I would if i were playing against it. Also just to double check, would it be legit for the shaman to cast 'steed of shadows' first, move himself within 12" of a herd, and then use the 'the wild call' to fling the herd forward? He is level 2 so he can use both spells, i am just checking there is no rule i have missed that means he cant cast again if he moves in his first spell or anything like that.



@ The red scourge.
Ooops, yeah i see that now, god knows how i failed to see that rule. I have changed it for the common item blade of striking, partly because i am put of by the cost of most of the beasts magic weapons and partly because i had to free up some points because the cost of the shamans went up slightly. Oh yeah i am not bothered about using items from the HoC book, i dont want any of the units from that book and just taking magic items from it to beard out my lord seems a but cheesy. I would rather just stick to the BoC book. The blade of striking means i will be hitting everything up to WS5 on a 2+ and anything above that on 3+. Seems a decent enough weapon, combined with impact hits and tuskgor hits, should be a formidable charge.



*-*-*-THE NEW LIST-*-*-*




*****Attacking Force*****

Beastlord Chariot - Horn Of The Great Hunt, Pelt of The Dark Young, Blade Of Striking, Heavy Armour 271
Tuskgor Chariot - 85
Tuskgor Chariot - 85

Chaos Giant - 205
Chaos Giant - 205

Shaman - Level 2, Staff Of Darkoth, Dispell Scroll 160

Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30


*****Ambushing Force *****

Shaman - Level 1, Braystaff, The Dark Heart, Dispell Scroll 131
Shaman - Level 1, Braystaff, The Gore Tooth, Dispell Scroll 131

Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115
Beastherd 8x Gors, 6x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 115

Total 1998



So yeah, is it any better? Its been refined twice now, hopefully should be getting somewhere near competative?

Lord Hurin
21-04-2008, 14:37
I think the general consensus is that larger Beast Herds with more Ungors than Gors works best. 12 Ungors and 8 Gors is a good build, I believe, and the remaining Gors from the boxes can be converted into Bestigors.

I also would never leave home without at least one unit of Minotaurs. Possibly some Dragon Ogres too.

vinny t
21-04-2008, 14:52
I would ditch 1 giant and take a hard hitting unit such as dragon ogres and buff up the herd units. Also, I like using 4 chariots and lord, it is an amazing combo when teamed with giant.

Sterling
21-04-2008, 15:44
okay, I think I understand, but why are you limiting your choices to unmarked chaos? BoC is already 3rd in the "least competitive army" voting, so being competitive is going to be very hard enough with everything available...

well, I understand, but if you are set on all-boc, then spread out your choices a bit... centigors and minotaurs are all decent, and could be excelent compliments to what you have. Drop some standards from the ambushing beast herds... since the herds aren't really strong fighters anyway, they are each 100 potential VPs for the enemy (per the captured standards rule). I like the 2 giants, since they really fit the general feel of your army.

The ambushing beast herds are best used against soft targets. even the smallest ranked infantry unit or dedicated CC unit from another army can beat an equal point value of beast herd. heck, it would depress you too much to tell you how hard it will be to break some ranked night goblins because your herd has to form up 8 wide and lose all rank bonuses, plus you can't benefit from a combo-charge like most armies since you still count as skirmishers so you can't drop any ranks by getting flank attacks.

The point of saying that is to say that you have overspent on soft-target killing, and you need something that can look at a ranked up unit of combat troops or small hammers of enemy knights and have a decent shot. That means (since you are all-beast) that you need a bestigor, minotaur or dragon ogre unit. My own preference would be minotaurs, since your two giants already have your rare slots occupied.

I would trade two ambushing herds and one warhound unit (260 total) for two 3x minotaur unit with great weapons (276), then drop standards from the remaining beast herds until you are legal.

static grass
21-04-2008, 17:02
I thought only half of units with the ambush rule could actually ambush? i.e. having a unit of dogs doesn't mean a beast herd can ambush - you need two beastherds before one can ambush.

Sterling
21-04-2008, 17:25
warhounds have ambush.

wickedvoodoo
21-04-2008, 18:02
Okily Dokily,


@ Stirling


How about this then, i have made fewer but stronger beastherds and dropped a 'combat shaman' and a unit of wolves. Also the magic staff had to go. This made the points for two units of minotaurs. I am worried about the number of ambushers now though, if i roll bad Ld checks i might not end up with enough units where i want them.

*****Attacking*****

Beastlord Chariot - Horn Of The Great Hunt, Pelt of The Dark Young, Blade Of Striking, Heavy Armour 271
Tuskgor Chariot - 85
Tuskgor Chariot - 85

Chaos Giant - 205
Chaos Giant - 205

Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30
Warhounds - 5x 30

Minataurs - x3, Great Weapons 138
Minataurs - x3, Great Weapons 138

Bray Shaman - Level 2, Braystaff, 2x Dispell Scroll 166

*****Ambushing*****

Bray Shaman - Level 1, Braystaff, The Dark Heart, The Gore Tooth 131

Beastherd - 12x Gors, 8x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 151
Beastherd - 12x Gors, 8x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 151
Beastherd - 12x Gors, 8x Ungors, Musician, Standard & Foe Render 151

Total - 1997