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View Full Version : Xenos - a call to arms



leonmallett
21-04-2008, 08:51
There have been a number of threads recently with a xeno-centric theme, or a theme about human/marine dominance in the WH40K game line. I have started this thread as a call to players who want to see the arguable (im)balance of Imperial codexes against non-Imperial races available as gaming armies redressed. There is an evident imbalance in favour of the Imperium (8 codexes) aganist non-Imperial forces (8 codexes for everything else, including Chaos Space Marines). Yes equal numbers but, the range of options for 'human/superhuman' armies is great indeed, when compared to the xenos.

Now let me declare a vested interest - I have two Space Marine armies already and I am working on a third. That said I have a Tyranid army and I am doing bits and pieces of Tau, Necrons and now Orks every so often.

What I am calling for is for expansion of the gaming options with a new race or an existing race (without codex) to be brought into the game to increase non-human army options. What I suggest to those that would like to see something similar is that we begin a letter writing campaign to Games Workshop HQ. I suggest letter writing rather than simple posting on Warseer (as much as I enjoy doing so), because then hopefully the message will get across to GW that there are those of us who want to see the lineup of races expanded. Whilst I think posting commentary can be worthwhile, how likely is that to have an effect? Letter writing may be equally ineffectual, but if those letters are read, and in enough numbers, notice may be taken. Add to that any face-to-face contact with designers and a grass-roots campaign could be started. Boycotting GW products isn't an answer, as the ultimate effect is counter-productive.

IMPORTANT: Now if this thread descends into Marine 'bashing' I will simply close it, as that is not what I am trying to encourage. I am not calling for anything to be taken away, that won't be already (for example the Inquisition armies will be combined into one at some point in the future it seems). What I am hoping is that interested members write in (or speak directly) to members of the design studio as opportunity presents itself, which costs what, the time needed and the price of a stamp? Tell them your thoughts, what you would like to see, which race(s) you think could work and so on. Letters could be addressed to specific individuals perhaps (Jervis Johnso, Phil kelly, Alessio Cavatore, Jes Goodwin and so forth), so the message gets spread around (think about those writers/designers whose work you like).

If you think this could be a worthwhile pursuit, please post your commitment to do so here, and an idea of what you might say when writing. It is a long shot, but maybe, just maybe, change can happen. People post about GW not recognising what fans want, this could be a way of ensuring that they do.


GW address:

Design Studio
Games Workshop
Willow Road
Nottingham
NG7 2WS
United Kingdom

de Selby
02-05-2008, 17:11
Aaaaw, no replies :p

I think the problem is that people won't agree on what they want to see.

I, for example, seem to be the only person who thinks that Space Skaven are a good idea (hordes of furry, cowardly, vicious little beasts with weird and unpleasant weapons/psionics would fit right in to the Dark Millenium IMHO). And people complain whenever something new is added to the game, just because it wasn't there since 2nd edition.

Slaaneshi Slave
02-05-2008, 17:13
You do realise that if they create a new model line then everything else they produce will increase in price to make up for their investment. Surely you should be asking for an increase in support for the existing races?

Horus38
02-05-2008, 17:24
I'd rather then continue to revamp the current line rather than expand it.

For those who want something "new" go ahead and convert something, make up your own rules and background, etc. It'd be a fun project and not put another thing in the GW pipeline which is already too stuffed up with to-do's IMHO.

TimLeeson
02-05-2008, 17:26
GW are never really going to do any "true" alien race, and if they introduced a new one it would be another biped one most-likely. That said, theres nothing stopping anyone from doing their own races. Its what iv been doing and iv been much happier since! all you need is some green-stuff, some mold-putty and liquid-plastic or resin and your set :)

leonmallett
02-05-2008, 17:30
Aaaaw, no replies :p

I guess you caught my shameless reference in another thread...(my shame is non-existent!). :p


I think the problem is that people won't agree on what they want to see.

I, for example, seem to be the only person who thinks that Space Skaven are a good idea (hordes of furry, cowardly, vicious little beasts with weird and unpleasant weapons/psionics would fit right in to the Dark Millenium IMHO). And people complain whenever something new is added to the game, just because it wasn't there since 2nd edition.

I suppose I am not seeking consensus on what should appear, but instead encouraging an alternative to the posts bemoaning the wide range of SM codexes and armies. Those posts remain just that - moaning, pretty much. I am hoping that if someone is motivated enough to post their disatisfaction on the internet, they may be inspired to attempt something more meaningful in terms of trying to be 'heard' in a constructive manner.

sabreu
02-05-2008, 17:32
I think we can all agree though Tau Seperatists, Kult of Speed Orks, Feral Orks, Exodite Eldar, Eldar Raiders, Harlequins, Tyranid Splinter Fleets, and other derivatives could be something to look into.

The Orange
02-05-2008, 17:36
Surely you should be asking for an increase in support for the existing races?
I'd have to agree here. I'd much rather see current armies expanded with more fluff and options. If they can pump out so much for the Imperium of Man surely a little more can be written and created about the other races. How about a Farsight codex? and/or more xenos merc. that work for the Tau? or even different sept armies. Their is the possibility of an Eldar harlequin army, or exodites, or fleet based pirates (non-DE that is)? And Necrons could do with some more variety.

Warp Zero
02-05-2008, 18:37
I would love to see a new Xenos army be added onto the list of 40k armies. There was a period when the new Necrons and the Tau came out and I was really ecstatic. Before that, there were only Eldar (2 flavors), Orks, and Tyranids.

The thing I love about the 40k hobby is the variety of options given to a player. There is practically a style/feel available for most tastes. For the fan of Starship Troopers and Aliens...there are the Tyranids. For my friend who refused to join us, because he didn't like the gothic look, there was the Tau. Now, he plays on a regular basis and has started a Chaos Marine army! I never would've thought it.

I'm sure there's a few more niches to fill in the 40k universe and in the line options to the consumer. I'm sure GW has thought of that too. I'm sure there are guys sitting in GW thinking the same thing we're thinking. That it would be cool to do another Xenos race. However, I'm sure the reason why they haven't done it yet is because they have other things to get to first.

I'm not privy to what's is truly more important on the "to do" list. But it seems like a good time to fit a new Xenos race into the picture would be after a Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard update.

If GW does do a new race, it would be nice if it was totally new. Not just an separate faction of an already existing race.

Simkin78
02-05-2008, 18:59
First I'd like to see GW update and expand the current line so they can truly solidify their core product and stabilize their company. Then I'd enjoy seeing a couple of new races with their own codex and no ties to current races/ factions emerge. Like the last remnants of the Squats emerging from their dead worlds to resettle and populate a new territory. Battle hardened and merciless fighters, their elite warriors go into war wearing the reforged carapace of slain Tyrannids!

Thanks for the address, I think I'll put something together and send it. :)

Firaxin
02-05-2008, 19:45
Oh dear, not the squats...

Would someone care to explain how a splinter fleet codex would differ from a non-splinter fleet codex? I play 'nids, and I'd be all for it, but I don't want a needless codex that is a virtual clone of the other.

40kdhs
02-05-2008, 19:56
You do realise that if they create a new model line then everything else they produce will increase in price to make up for their investment. Surely you should be asking for an increase in support for the existing races?



The original poster only asked us for our opinion about his new suggestion. By the way, the price will always go up whether GW releases a new army or not.

eriochrome
02-05-2008, 20:06
Given that some races(Necrons and DE) and many of the imperium forces(SW, IG, DH, WH) did not get a codex update for all of 4th edition, I would not push GW to give more races. The Imperium other than SM derivatives has actually got every little love in 4th edition codexes.

They just did give you a new race Daemons and you can play one army in both Warhammer and 40K.

Penitent Engine
02-05-2008, 20:27
To be honest, I don't care about competitiveness, only fluff!

mistformsquirrel
02-05-2008, 21:07
Aaaaw, no replies :p

I think the problem is that people won't agree on what they want to see.

I, for example, seem to be the only person who thinks that Space Skaven are a good idea (hordes of furry, cowardly, vicious little beasts with weird and unpleasant weapons/psionics would fit right in to the Dark Millenium IMHO). And people complain whenever something new is added to the game, just because it wasn't there since 2nd edition.

*agree completely with de Selby*

Both on the Space Skaven thing (What can I say, I love the furry little bastards in fantasy, and I'd love to see them make an appearance in 40k in some fashion); and most DEFINITELY on people complaining about anything new.

I mean jeez, how often do you hear people griping about Tau or Necrons? "Omg they just appeared out of nowhere!" Not really... given Space is kinda a big place and I think fairly plausible explanations were given.

Oh bah, I'll just rant if I keep going.

Draconian77
02-05-2008, 21:13
I'll send a letter but I think the current races all need to be brought up to scratch before Codex: Kroot comes out. :D

boogaloo
02-05-2008, 21:39
i kinda think it makes sense that there's more imperial armies than xeno, we're human, it's the persepective that we see. We think we're special. The thing that i would like to see is more ally options for xeno species. I think that it's a bit rediculous that you can take a core of assault space marines and then spam Imp guard heavy wespons, or vice versa. I just don't get why eldar can't ally with dark eldar.. . or set up a temporary non-aggresssion pact with the tau to smite some orks or 'umies. tau and eldar are pretty freekin similar anyhow

Lord Damocles
02-05-2008, 21:55
I think that it's a bit rediculous that you can take a core of assault space marines and then spam Imp guard heavy wespons, or vice versa.
It doesn't seem rediculus to me. Considering that you CAN'T DO IT out side of Apoc and all...:rolleyes:

I'd rather they updated the Xenos races they already have to support rather than trying to make a completely new race. It'll have been what, TWO WHOLE EDITIONS since Dark Eldar had a codex come 5th Ed. ?!?

Nyarathlotep
02-05-2008, 22:25
I would LOVE to see some new races. Space skaven would be fun. I don't want a new race to come out at the expense of updating other armies. This all stems from the fact that GW still does not have a solid base game. They have to 'update' the old codices with every new codex. A solid base game would solve this. Not that I'm complaining, they are headed in the right direction. Maybe a codex: Xenos would be in order, with races such as Kroot Mercs, and other races in their own individual lists. I haven't written a letter in 10 years. I may start now...

weissengel86
02-05-2008, 22:35
i would much rather GW spend time on updating current armies and supporting the lesser used armies (i.e. daemonhunters) first before creating a new race with codex. Gw has lots of things they need to do before distracting themselves with something not neccessary.

Grimbad
02-05-2008, 23:58
I'd love to see some that actually look alien. I'd buy at least the codex and army box if GW made a Codex: Space Jellyfish or something.

Draconian77
03-05-2008, 00:05
You realise that even if they update all the currently out of date books they will only be valid if 5th ed sticks around as the "final" edition + a few tweaks here and there. I doubt the likihood of this.

Hellebore
03-05-2008, 02:07
Oh dear, not the squats...

Would someone care to explain how a splinter fleet codex would differ from a non-splinter fleet codex? I play 'nids, and I'd be all for it, but I don't want a needless codex that is a virtual clone of the other.

Hmmm, lets see.

A modified standard elite choice that is Fearless and has more options than the normal choice.

A modified Fast Attack choice that is Fearless and can aid in tyranid deep strike accuracy.

Some unique splinter fleet organisms as HQ choices.


If it's good enough for the DARK ANGELS (as the list above indicates) then it's good enough for the Tyranid Splinter Fleets.


Seriously, GW don't NEED to make an army list that different from the basic one to develop it.


Hellebore

Captin Korea!
03-05-2008, 02:13
There are those daemons that just came out, not very Xeno like, but its a start for something other than a human / sm army.
I think space skaven would be a great addition, maybe after some codex's get updated 1st.

da big mek
03-05-2008, 03:00
i would like to see hrud fleshed out as a full army
lots of plasma death :skull:
would also be a great excuse for an ordo xenos codex

lanrak
03-05-2008, 08:55
Hi all.
IMO GW have made the mistake of turning 40k into 'Space Marine Crusade.'
Due to marketing and short term finacial based decisions they HAVE screwed up the games we play.(Compared to the variety that used to be in the game years ago.)

As GW cannot seem to support the current number of codexes , let alone add to this number.

How about a source book , giving in depth background on a particular race/force.(300+ pages of fluffy goodness!)

And split the rules into gruopings .
EG
Codex Imperium.Elites(SM ,INQ.)
Codex Imperium.Defenders.(IG,Sob.)
Codex Chaos.(CSM, LTD, Deamons.)
Codex Xenos Techno.(Eldar, Tau.)
Codex Xenos Brutal.(Orks ,Dark eldar.)
Codex Xenos Mind-war.(Nids , Necrons.)

As most codexs only have about 20 pages of actual rules, grouping 2 or 3 rules sets together shouldnt be a problem.In fact more time could be spent developing game play.Each codex could have a list of mercinary /allies.
So all the 'little known' races get a mention and possibly a unit or 2?
EG Kroot, Hrud, Skitari, Vangrinar, etc. (I can remember the spellings.)

This way 'fluff monkeys' get all they want to inspire them to collect anf paint the new releases.

Gamers get better developed rules,which can be updated more regularly.
And all factions get reasonable representation.

Cenyu
03-05-2008, 09:13
From a WHFB player's perspective I would think 40K could need some kind of "Dogs of War" department:

A whole load of mercenary regiments, units, monsters, beings, whatnots which can be hired by different armies to broaden the spectrum of available choices (and races to choose from).

Among them could also be Xenos units with new interesting background. It would add to the game without the requirement of a whole new Codex.

€: It would be an easy way to for example include Squats - just write up rules and options for them, decide which armies may hire them, possibly release models for them - voila. Same can go for Exodite Eldar, Watchers in the Dark, Hrud, Spaven, Saruuthi, Jokaero, hell what do I know, I'm just a Fantasy player. But damn, the Dogs of War and, among them, the "Regiments of Reknown" (legendary mercenaries) add quite much flavour to WHFB.

Chem-Dog
03-05-2008, 09:54
I definately think H'rud deserve a codex now, GW have seeded the background with plenty of references and comments upon the race over the last decade to the extent that it almost feels as if they are missing.

One approach that, although unlikely, would help fill the gap for alien races (and, I think, spur on the creative process towards full codexes) would be a "Dogs of War" style codex, a little bit of fluff and a unit or two from various races with details of which army they can or can't ally with would do wonders.

Look at how many people have picked up on the idea of a Kroot Army for example, the original release of the Tau Codex simply had 4 troop types in the same unit.