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antin3
21-04-2008, 21:39
Has anyone built a scout army or played against one? I think it would be an interesting undertaking and I have thought of several cool conversions. My only issue is how to represent an HQ squad without using marine models. Any suggestions or ideas are welcome.
Thanks in advance.

Johnnyfrej
21-04-2008, 21:55
You could have a Scout army that has lots of Termies. Get 6 squads of Scouts and give each a Homing Beacon. Then get 3 squads of Terminators as elites and give both your HQs a termy retinue. If you have points left you can get Scout bikes with Meltas for Tank Hunting.

Sir_Turalyon
21-04-2008, 22:15
I always liked idea of scouts supported by Land Speeders - only units fast enough to make it in time to help scots infiltrating behind enemy lines. Or maybe all non-scout units starting game in reserve and eighter being Land Speeders or Deep Striking. You may get around command squad in power armour by not making them part of scout force, but reinforcements droping from orbit to support it.

But with new Codex:Space Marines comig this year i would wait and see if Scouts don't become Elites, scout bikes don't disappear and so on before starting this army.

Col. Dash
21-04-2008, 22:21
Scouts better not be elites, they are the frikken new guys who havent finished full transformation into space marines, its why they dont wear power armor. I think a full scout army would be sweet and look pretty cool too.

Malachai
21-04-2008, 22:39
I'm pretty sure they're going to be elites, it happened to the Blood Angels and Dark Angels. I think it is ridiculous.
I like the idea of an large scout army, a 10th company with some light tranports and sabotage options. Scouts who sabotage defence systems before the space marines strike begins.

Ravenheart
21-04-2008, 22:44
It's a pretty good bet that they will become elites.

Rigthly so, no chapter, except in the most dire circumstances would gamble on it's future by sending 60% of their recruits into battle simultaniously.

Ixajin
21-04-2008, 22:48
Rightly so, no chapter, except in the most dire circumstances would gamble on it's future by sending 60% of their recruits into battle simultaneously.

This why my DiY chapter has two scout companies built into the fluff. But hearing that scouts may go to elite slots, my DiY chapter is now on hold.

Johnnyfrej
21-04-2008, 22:50
It's a pretty good bet that they will become elites.

Rigthly so, no chapter, except in the most dire circumstances would gamble on it's future by sending 60% of their recruits into battle simultaniously.
Not always. You could make up your own chapter and say they lost almost all of their Power Armor in a crusade so now it has to make up with lots of its battle-brothers wearing Carapace.

the1stpip
21-04-2008, 23:07
I would be a bit pissed if they do go elites. Blood Angels only have them as elites as they get assault squads as troops.

There is far better stuff inelites than scouts. They would never be seen.

Dr.Clock
22-04-2008, 03:51
So why do DA have them as elites??

Maybe because they have the option of taking termies and RW in troops...

I built a scout-heavy list. Four full squads (2 bolter, 1 each snipers and ccw/bp).

It looks great on the table, but I found that more than 4 scout squads isn't that effective. A horrific lack of high strength and/or AP2 weaponry makes it hard to use against many lists.

Right now I use one trait for true grit for a defensive infantry formation as well. As I dearly want to keep true grit, I'll lose my snipers if I go SW. So it goes.

I take NO vehicles or terminators.

Only time will tell how this army looks after the new 'dex.

In the interim, I would advise against buying more than 30 scouts, and keep the list to about 2000 points. That way, when the 'dex comes out you are guaranteed to not have too many scouts for a single FOC.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Bestiaparda
22-04-2008, 06:36
Stop cryin´!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scouts WILL be elites, because in 5th edition the special rule of infiltrating will be very powerful...they will be able to enter battle from whatever table edge you choose... so in new edition all infiltrating units will be elites because they will be able to take a great position "for free".

Malachai
22-04-2008, 08:26
I guess you expect people to know the 5th edition rules?..

Bestiaparda
22-04-2008, 10:49
Maybe you are one of the few players of 40k that has not read the 5th version of the rules ;)

You can find a lot of info in this forum reading the "rumoured new rules for 5th edition".

In any case, in three months all these old rules will be wiped out so I suspect that all this moaning will end...or not ;)

Remoah
22-04-2008, 11:03
Stop cryin´!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scouts WILL be elites, because in 5th edition the special rule of infiltrating will be very powerful...they will be able to enter battle from whatever table edge you choose... so in new edition all infiltrating units will be elites because they will be able to take a great position "for free".

IIRC it just allows you to setup outside 12" of any enemy unit. Therefore it doesnt MATTER what table edge. You could infiltrate behind the army for all it matters as long as you were outside 12" and in cover.

Anyhow... scouts IMHO arent all that great. they die too easily and for thier points they don't do anything that more marines couldnt, and better.

marv335
22-04-2008, 11:08
As long as you're not playing on planet billiard table, scouts are actually a very tough army.
since you can infiltrate, you have a tactical edge at deployment as you can place your units for best effect, while your opponent cannot.
your tankhunting is limited, as is your availability of AP2/3 weapons, but they can make a powerful force.
I've had great success with a 1000pt scout army.
at 1500pts it's very nasty.

Mercer
22-04-2008, 11:38
Maybe you are one of the few players of 40k that has not read the 5th version of the rules ;)

You can find a lot of info in this forum reading the "rumoured new rules for 5th edition".

In any case, in three months all these old rules will be wiped out so I suspect that all this moaning will end...or not ;)

How can you read rules which aren't even out? A rumour is called a rumour for reason. Will see what the rules are when they're dried onto the paper, then perhaps we can read them ;)

Mercer

Panzerkanzler
22-04-2008, 12:22
...only units fast enough to make it in time to help scots infiltrating behind enemy lines...

No. Highlanders don't need no stinkin' fast units, only FREEDOOOOOM! :cries:

Templar Ben
22-04-2008, 12:45
But with new Codex:Space Marines comig this year i would wait and see if Scouts don't become Elites, scout bikes don't disappear and so on before starting this army.

I thought scout bikes were being recut.

D.B.
22-04-2008, 14:20
This why my DiY chapter has two scout companies built into the fluff. But hearing that scouts may go to elite slots, my DiY chapter is now on hold. One could always use the black templar list, and calling Initiates scouts. Not quite the same, but still gets across the idea of a chapter with far more recruits than normal.

Sir_Turalyon
22-04-2008, 15:40
Not always. You could make up your own chapter and say they lost almost all of their Power Armor in a crusade so now it has to make up with lots of its battle-brothers wearing Carapace.


Or Rough Rider Company... both exist in fluff, both are now Apocalypse stuff. At least Stormtrooper companies are still possible.

deathdealer
22-04-2008, 19:09
My friend has a scout army, and although i haven't actually played against it yet, it looks really good and plays quite well too, it basically consists of 3 units of combat scouts that infiltrate, 3 units of snipers/heavies that form a gunline, 2 squads of scout bikers, a squad of landspeeders and a couple of dreads, wouldn't mind goin up against that sometime myself with my orks.

ghostmaker12
22-04-2008, 20:34
fluff wise they are great and if you are thinking of using one or making one i would be amazed also talk to Valo since he is actually going to make one for his Red Scorpions. but if you do make sure you include the master of recruits since that will be a fluff must.

Yautja
23-04-2008, 03:08
You could model a squad of Devastators as scouts to give your army a boost to there heavy weapons. Add some walls or trees to the bases to put them in enough cover to represent the +1 differance in armor.

starlight
23-04-2008, 03:28
a) Scout armies are very hard, if played right. :) Someone around here ran one in a NZ Tourney and won if I recall.

b) I mentioned to *someone*:angel: that I was planning an all Scout force, and I was cautioned against it...

c) Scouts are rumoured to be undergoing some fairly significant changes in how they fit into the Marine list, both in rules and look. ;)

I wouldn't be building any all Scout forces unless you're planning to use them in Apocalypse or similar *friendly* games. I'm still building mine, but I'm silly that way. :D

RevenantX
23-04-2008, 03:34
I don't think they'll be changing the look of scouts anytime soon, the previous edition of plastics are actually pretty nice and cover all of the options available to them anyways.

I hope they keep scouts as troops in regular marine armies. BA have Assault Squads as troops and DA can make Ravenwing and Deathwing squads troop choices, so I'd like to see the other chapters keep them as in the troop slots.

shabbadoo
23-04-2008, 08:59
Scouts WILL be elites, because in 5th edition the special rule of infiltrating will be very powerful...they will be able to enter battle from whatever table edge you choose... so in new edition all infiltrating units will be elites because they will be able to take a great position "for free".

...and yes, Scouts with measely bolters or bolt pistols will be a real threat to all but the few tanks in the game that don't have rear AV 10(and they still have melta-bombs/power fists for the tougher tanks), let alone being able to jump gun-line heavy weapon squads. Infiltators will be very good indeed.

toldyouso
23-04-2008, 21:33
Although I have never played against a scout army, I don't really reccomend it. If you want the close combat, take the "Take the Fight to them" chapter advantage thing. I got some scout snipers and they really arn't as good as I thought. You would also have trouble against tanks, the best a scout can take is a missle launcher, power 8. You would need a roll of 6 to even touch something like a Lemen Russ's front armor.

In the end, saving 2 points isn't really worth the lesser armor save, even with infiltrate. Snipers are heavy weapons with only 36 inch range and are hard to hit+wound+beat armor save with.
Plus they look dumb and are annoying to paint.

starlight
23-04-2008, 21:47
Don't expect to see Traits in the next book, so by the end of summer...

Scout Bikers can have Meltabombs, as well the Sgt can take options such as a Combimelta or Thunderhammer.

Well played, Scouts can do really well, however those used to the 3+ Save may find themselves at a disadvantage because few armies are as forgiving of mistakes as MEqs.

Killgore
23-04-2008, 22:30
I'v got around 40 scouts, i love the little buggers, they look good and on terrain heavy boards that I use they can be a real pain

marv335
23-04-2008, 23:46
As I said before, I've had great success with scouts. They take finesse to use and if you make mistakes you will suffer.
That said, it's a very rewarding army to use.
Cover needs to be used, precise application of force against your opponent has to be mastered.

I've taken out a mech guard army with my scouts. It was difficult, but well worth it.

victorpofa
24-04-2008, 00:55
Right now I use one trait for true grit for a defensive infantry formation as well. As I dearly want to keep true grit, I'll lose my snipers if I go SW. So it goes.

One squad of Wolf Scouts can take the equipment options from the Space Marine Codex Scouts. Your snipers are safe if you go Wolfy :evilgrin: You will lose one squad due to their Elites slot in that army, but it does not have to be snipers. I finished my Wolf Scout sniper squad a few months back. Damn cool.

Draconian77
24-04-2008, 02:12
Scouts are a pain in the *naughty word* for my Nids.

A) A 4+ save really isn't that bad for a troop choice, and your still talking about marine Stats.

B) Sniper armed squads are immune to most units basic guns making them more survivable in a gunline shoot out.

C) I play Zilla, all his scouts are firing S6-7 bullets. Its very annoying to have to take 4+ saves everytime he shoots with 1 squad.

D) They pin, apparently moral might hurt more in 5th ed though I have some doubts.

E) They infiltrate. I cant stress how awesome this rules is for them. Missiles are only S8, but what is your side armour value! Also if someone tries to refuse flank you just deploy them in your opponents deployment zone.

I don't however like them as assault squads. Snipers ftw! (Can you tell I play Halo?)

Apparently they will become Elites come 5th ed which would be a shame.

Tves
24-04-2008, 03:43
I have a scout army, full 6 squads of scouts, 2 maxed with cc setup, rest are mixed hvy bolter/ML and sniper squads. (they are also backed up by 2 DP Dreadnaughts, predator and a LR (which contains a chaplain and a 9 man PF included CC squad) and a solitary MM/HF landspeeder

Few things really.

1) 4+ armor save sounds nice, until someone brings a heavy bolter to bear on your troops.

2) Snipers. Not as effective as one might think, and pinning atleast in 4th ed doesnt do that much. But that horse has severly been beaten despite being stone dead.

3) Playing a scout army, is literally all about the deployment. You need to get and hold the initative for them to work properly. That is from round one you need to keep your foe reacting to you, otherwise you'll find out that scouts whilst nice are SLOW. Normal footsloggers with not so great staying power outside cover, try countering a flanking move by a Nid army that way.

I find scouts to be wonderful in 400 point fights, but mostly due to the "you just go ahead and set up, I infilitrate" brings such a wonderous look to peoples faces.

Its a tricky army to play, but loads of fun can be had with it. If you want to go this way, I say go for it. But be aware that the new codex might not be kind to the scout's.

The Inquisitor
24-04-2008, 04:19
The only question I have... how will you model the neckerchiefs?

marv335
24-04-2008, 09:00
The only question I have... how will you model the neckerchiefs?

Skilful use of green stuff.
next question?
;)

senorcardgage
24-04-2008, 12:55
Hey marv, I'd really like to play against your scout army. Sounds like they would make a very interesting opponent!

The Inquisitor
24-04-2008, 18:26
Skilful use of green stuff.
next question?
;)

haha, I just couldn't resist.

You know, I love scouts, and the DA now, as they play with combined forces, really supports the idea of a very mobile strike force. Infiltrating scouts are definitely cool, I'd say.

But the bummer is the scouts as elites rumor. How likely is that?

starlight
24-04-2008, 18:30
Very.

As in *plan on it* sort of likely...:(

Scouts aren't so much *Elites* in their nature, but in their numbers. As well, GW wants to stop people from taking the cheapest possible Troops just to max out on other stuff.

Although, Apocalypse rules let you take the whole 10th Company, so no worries. :)

kesofcom
24-04-2008, 19:38
lost almost all of their Power Armor

sorry this was funny talk about bad luck :P
just wondering though how would you take care of heavy tanks? melta bombs?

starlight
24-04-2008, 20:08
1) Krak Rockets (disabled can be as good as killed), Meltabombs, Thunderhammers.

2) Ignore them, evade them, isolate them, destroy them where convenient.

kesofcom
24-04-2008, 20:12
okay... lol just thiought, what would you do against another scout army?

starlight
24-04-2008, 20:41
Depend on the other gamer and how the battle went, just like any game.:p

1) Deploy as suitable for the mission.
2) Apply battleplan to the mission at hand.
3) Modify as required
4) ???
5) Victory! :D

Draconian77
24-04-2008, 21:22
"1) 4+ armor save sounds nice, until someone brings a heavy bolter to bear on your troops."

I would love to play with a group that actually uses HB's, my group uses nothing but Missiles and Lascannons... Currently Anti-Medium Infantry weaponry is probably the least commen weapon. Also with Infiltrate hitting cover isn't that hard.

!1) Deploy as suitable for the mission.
2) Apply battleplan to the mission at hand.
3) Modify as required
4) ???
5) Victory!"

Damn underpants Gnomes, i think this has spread to every forum on the internet!

Tves
24-04-2008, 22:13
I would love to play with a group that actually uses HB's, my group uses nothing but Missiles and Lascannons... Currently Anti-Medium Infantry weaponry is probably the least commen weapon. Also with Infiltrate hitting cover isn't that hard.

True, hitting cover isnt so hard, but remember the boys can only walk 6 inches tops per turn. That makes for a slow army if your opponent manages to shift his weight over to one flank. Then eventually you're gona have to come out of cover to get the job done.

stgrenade
24-05-2008, 08:22
It would be a interesting army to play and would defiantly be fun to play against.