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Goldenwolf
23-04-2008, 10:36
Folks,

If Pit of shades is cast on a special item, such as:

Empire War Altar
Dwarf Anvil
Skaven Screaming Bell
Carnosaur

Etc, Etc. Are these affected by the spell? Or just the riders?

logan054
23-04-2008, 11:21
no the rider dosnt just jump off

Atrahasis
23-04-2008, 11:32
Why wouldn't they be affected?
Work it out like any other template.

theunwantedbeing
23-04-2008, 11:35
no the rider dosnt just jump off

This is far too tempting.

The rider doesnt just get sucked off.
The whole thing gets sucked into the pit if it's under.

Sorry....

logan054
23-04-2008, 11:37
This is far too tempting.

The rider doesnt just get sucked off.
The whole thing gets sucked into the pit if it's under.

Sorry....

I know, i had visions of arch lector heroically diving from his chariot thing, oh dear

Masque
23-04-2008, 12:00
Against characters riding chariots or monsters you roll the 4+ for partial template coverage against the rider and mount seperately. If the base is fully covered then both are automatically hit. Then if either is hit you roll the initiative test for that part of the model. Failure of the test will remove that part of the model from the table.

The Anvil of Doom itself cannot be attacked and thus won't be affected by Pit of Shades. It will affect the Runelord and Anvil Guards as it would any other models.

EvC
23-04-2008, 13:08
These kinds of rules always confuse me a little. So would a character-ridden dragon or chariot test on its own initiative (=auto-fail for chariot), or does it get to use the highest I value of the model (=war altar testing on arch lector's initiative)?

Masque
23-04-2008, 14:53
I believe the chariot would use the initiative of the steed or crew. In the case of the War Altar there is no crew. A dragon would, of course, use it's own initiative.

EvC
23-04-2008, 15:01
Well a normal chariot would use the best initiative; the War Altar has steeds of course so they would count as the best value and their initiative be used. So the Dragon would use its own initiative, nice, very good way to kill a Star Dragon.

Masque
23-04-2008, 15:23
Well, as you'll never cover a High Elf dragon's base fully with the small template Pit of Shades will only take down (no pun intended) a Star Dragon a sixth of the time.

Anaris
23-04-2008, 15:36
I'm pretty sure that the BRB FAQ states that if a model with different values (i.e. Rider and Mount) is required to take a test against a characteristic it uses that one that is most likely to pass.

Soul of Iron
23-04-2008, 16:05
Forgive me, but how can the anvil not be effected by PoS?

Falkman
23-04-2008, 16:36
Because the Anvil is to all intents treated as a piece of terrain, not a model with stats.

EvC
23-04-2008, 17:02
I'm pretty sure that the BRB FAQ states that if a model with different values (i.e. Rider and Mount) is required to take a test against a characteristic it uses that one that is most likely to pass.

Yes, that's why I'm having a bit of a hard time reconciling it with the other rules stated in this thread :o

Goldenwolf
23-04-2008, 23:41
Ummm, so I don't want to be a jerk, but:

Do the models test seperately if it is a Dragon ridden by a lord?
What about chariots? War Altars? Screaming Bells?

If something has no initiative like Steam Cannon or War Altar, are they sucked in Automatically? Do they roll, and a 1 is a save? Does the War Altar save on the Arch Lector's save? If they succeed they both are fine, if they fail they both get sucked in?

marv335
23-04-2008, 23:53
PoS on a dragon mounted HE lord would go like this.
hit on a 4+ (partial hits only due to base size) tests against riders I so only failing on a 6
so that's a 1 in 12 chance of failing.
needless to say, My lord does not fear the pit.

EvC
24-04-2008, 00:25
So it would hit the whole model (not two separate parts), and if failed, then the whole model dies. Is that right? That is not what Masque described earlier...

Masque
24-04-2008, 05:01
See the last paragraph of Shooting at Monstrous Mounts on page 61 of the BRB. It clearly tells us that the mount and rider are hit (or not) seperately, not collectively. Whether or not you feel it is appropriate to apply the FAQ and use the rider's initiative for the mount after you have already determined the mount is hit seperately from the rider is up to you and your group.

Famder
24-04-2008, 09:19
I have a question to tag onto this. Does a character with Magic Resistance get to use it against PoS if it is the only model under the template? Technically it is being targeted, but it is still affecting an area even though there is nothing else to affect.

Masque
24-04-2008, 09:23
You can use the character's MR against PoS whether or not it is the only model that would be under the template.

Whaagnomore
30-04-2008, 23:44
Brrr i get horrid reminders of what this spell does to a second gen slann :cries:

marv335
01-05-2008, 10:10
If you have a 2nd gen Slann on the table and someone gets that spell off against you, you deserve to lose him

EvC
01-05-2008, 14:01
Yeah, it's a shame that if any enemy Wizard rolls Pit of Shades you absolutely have to hide your Slann like a scared child...

theunwantedbeing
01-05-2008, 14:13
Pit of shades has a range of 24"
Drain magic has a range of 24"

The slann also gets +1 to dispel attempts.
You can have the staff of sorcery in your army to give yourself +2 to dispel attempts.
As well as have the diadem to easily save 2 powerdice to be used as dispel dice the next turn.

Your biggest worry would be your opponent getting the first turn, marching his mage stragiht towards your slann and getting irresistable force.
But then, there's not a great deal you can do about luck like that.

It's perfectly fair though, removing a slann by prettymuch any means other than the pit of shades is incredibly tricky.

EvC
01-05-2008, 16:36
Well yes, both times my Slann has been subject to the spell, it's because of an Irresistable Force. As I said, all you can do it hide. That 10-15% chance of the pit of shades going off is too big a risk.

SuperArchMegalon
02-05-2008, 02:10
Nevermind Teclis or the Book of Hoeth... Blech!