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Reaver83
23-04-2008, 09:56
Ok, as I shall imminently be acquiring the demon book, I'm looking forward to a 3K combined chaos game (CSM's + Demons) against a friends army.

Now I'll be using my old world eaters force basically khorne, khorne and more khorne.

Now we've discussed that my demon's will be able to deep strike off my icons, but in looking into what my CSM's will use, i'm thinking of using some chosen, therefore all my first turn demons will arrive pretty much next to that.

This has got me thinking how the greater community will handle issues like this in games, e.g apocalypse. Any thoughts appreciated

Patriarch
23-04-2008, 11:33
I think it needs discussion before the game.

You are cramming two army lists together in a fluffy way. After all, World Eaters fight besides Bloodletters, not cookie-cutter daemon clones. However, those lists have not been designed to work together "fairly".

The new Deamon codex prices up units which appear and charge towards the enemy. They don't have long-range covering fire from MEQ heavy weapons; allowing this could make the battle very one-sided and not much fun.

Therefore you may to have to think up and agree a fair minded compromise.

E.g. no first turn Daemon deep strike - the first wave of Daemons will appear according to the regular reserves rules, using your CSM icons as per Codex:CSM. Given your Daemons are now much nastier than the C:CSM ones, you might want to increase the price of CSM icons as well.

The ability to use the new daemons might be offset a bit by the fact you are restricting yourself to one particular breed (Khorne).

Tonberry
23-04-2008, 11:38
Seeing as you would (I assume) be playing Apocalypse, which is meant for this type of thing, I see no problem at all?
Of course you'd probably have to talk over the whole thing with the Daemons using CSM icons, but that's th eonly problem I see.

Dragonlover
23-04-2008, 13:21
Why not treat it as two seperate force organisation charts? 1500 points of CSM, 1500 points of Daemons, two totally seperate armies. Plus it means you can have 5 Daemon Princes if you want to.

Dragonlover

Kelderaith
23-04-2008, 13:22
To make it more "fair" I would probably build 2 1500 pts army and play them together, even outside apocalypse I wouldn't mind that. That way, you can play khornate daemon and world eaters without completely screwing the balance of both codexes (that means that only your daemon can summon other daemon as well etc...)

If you find this too much deamon and you wanted to take more CSM, well shift the balance to 2000 pts CSM and 1000 pts Daemon... fact is, mixing 2 codexes without really caring about FoC and the fact that Daemon in the Daemon codex will cost about minus 25% of their original cost for obvious already stated reasons is a clear abuse.

Edit: owned by 1 minute...

Kurisu313
23-04-2008, 15:17
Why not treat it as two seperate force organisation charts? 1500 points of CSM, 1500 points of Daemons, two totally seperate armies. Plus it means you can have 5 Daemon Princes if you want to.

Dragonlover

Erm...this is apocalypse. He could have twenty daemon princes if he wanted. Backed up by a banelord squadron, of course :p

DonKarst0n
23-04-2008, 17:18
When I play with my brother he plays CSM alongside traitor Guard.
I think you can do whatever you want as long as you tell your opponent before the game.

But I wouldn't let those bloodletters use your CSM's icons. I would treat every army seperately to prevent any troubles. As said those two armies weren't meant to be combined so don't do it.

Dragonlover
23-04-2008, 18:44
Erm...this is apocalypse. He could have twenty daemon princes if he wanted. Backed up by a banelord squadron, of course :p

Ah, it wasn't clear that the game was gonna be Apoc. In that case I run with daemons only being summonable by other daemons.

Dragonlover

Patriarch
24-04-2008, 12:51
Erm...this is apocalypse. He could have twenty daemon princes if he wanted. Backed up by a banelord squadron, of course :p

Reaver83 didn't say it was Apocalypse. 3,000 is the "minimum" for an Apoc game but it could also be a fairly large regular game. But a "friendly" regular game allows you to bend the rules in ways a tournament game couldn't be.

What might be cool is say, 2,000 pts of CSM plus 1,000 pts of new Daemons. This vs. 2,000 points of your opponents regular army plus 1,000 pts of Daemonhunters.

Kurisu313
24-04-2008, 12:58
Reaver83 didn't say it was Apocalypse. 3,000 is the "minimum" for an Apoc game but it could also be a fairly large regular game. But a "friendly" regular game allows you to bend the rules in ways a tournament game couldn't be.

What might be cool is say, 2,000 pts of CSM plus 1,000 pts of new Daemons. This vs. 2,000 points of your opponents regular army plus 1,000 pts of Daemonhunters.

Hmmm...re-reading the original post I fear you may be right. If the OP isn't playing apoc, I apologise for jumping to conclusions. I believe that apoc is awesome and play 3000pt battles regularly. I also believe that apocalypse is THE place for chaos now. Want combined daemons and marines? Yes please. Want LatD and Traitor guard. Great! My chaos force is still small, but I use a large force of mutants and guard backed up by traitor marines and a warp rift. Not to mention a brass scorpion. Roll on my mumak-daemon conversion, mwuhahaha! :evilgrin:

Reaver83
24-04-2008, 13:46
to be honest we've not decided if it would be apoc or not...

after reading the above, i'm agreeing that in a standard 40K game i'd do demons deploying demon style, but in apoc i think use of other icons (like how my friends use each other teleport homers) is a good idea.