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View Full Version : The Bluescribes of Tzeentch - Energy Syphon Debate



Fulgrim's-Chosen
24-04-2008, 23:17
Hello guys.

I am writing this in regards to the new Hero-choice Daemon Character called "The Bluescribes" (and am of course talking about his Fantasy Version, not the 40-k version).

He has a special ability called "Energy Syphon" which says that "For each spell your opponent successfully casts in his Magic Phase, set aside a die. At the start of YOUR next Magic Phase, add all dice set aside in this way to your Common Pool of Power Dice."


Now...my question (and one being debated a bit at Daemonic Legion's Forum)...is...what is meant by "Successfully cast" ?

I have taken it to mean that "casting" the spell is when you roll your dice and get a high enough value to make the spell "be cast". Your opponent then has the option of Dispelling the spell....but clearly the spell has to have "been cast successfully" in the first place, in order for you to even target it with Dispel Dice or a Scroll, right ?


Avian (mod) said it was "clearly explained" on page-107 of the Big Red Rulebook, right side - upper paragraphs..but reading over that area, I don't see anything that would NOT support my above-interpretation.

It says: "If the casting result equals or exceeds the spell's casting value, the spell is cast (though it may still be dispelled and neutralised by enemy Wizards). If the result is less than the spell's casting value, it is not cast."

Nothing there seems to suggest anything other than what I'm thinking...which is ...if you make the roll (high enough)...that spell is CAST. At that point...set aside the dice for the Bluescribes ability. If you then want to Dispel that ALREADY CAST SPELL...you can do so...but you would still get the dice from Bluescribes since the spell WAS actually cast by the enemy Wizard in the first place.

Thoughts on this ?

Have they FAQ'd this anywhere to explain what the meaning (in their minds) of "successfully casting a spell is" ?

The book is not 100% clear since it seems to suggest that Dispelling something happens AFTER it's already been successfully cast...or not cast (they even have that dispel part in paranthesis, like this, which makes it stand out even more as being something that happens independent of whether the spell is cast or not).

:confused:

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(Either way, the Bluescribes are good...but with this...you could be racking up some SERIOUS Power Dice totals from a Vampire Counts magic phase....what's that...you cast 3 Invocations, 2 Van-Hel's, and a Raise Dead ? Yes...I'll take +6 Power Dice to the Pool ! )

Ganymede
24-04-2008, 23:21
Page 108 - "If the dispel result is lower than the caster's casting result, the spell is said to have been cast successfully."

Easy as pie.

theunwantedbeing
24-04-2008, 23:38
Successfully cast is when the spell actually happens.
If it gets dispelled it wasnt successfully cast so you dont get an additional dice.

There has been no official clarification on this so you can easily get your opponent to believe it using the page reference quoted by ganymede to do so.

Venkh
25-04-2008, 00:06
I remember having the same debate re. Gut Magic.

I that case successfully cast meant still cast after dispel attempts/scrolls have been used.

Just another example of GW being unable to marry army book terminology with that in the main rulebook. Not that you should be surprised or anything. GW are primarily a miniatures company. Having clear, well written rules would be breach of company policy.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
25-04-2008, 00:14
Aha...so the problem was Avian was off 1-page (107 compared to 108 ;)).

Well..the Bluescribes are still top-notch, especially for what you pay for them !

Assume a standard new Tzeentch Legion will have something like 8-10 Dispel Dice. Now assume the Vampire Counts player you are up against does something like this in his Magic Phase:

Gaze of Nagash - dispelled with 3 dice by the Daemon player.

Raise Dead- Okay - it gets through, +1 die is set aside.

Invocation of Nehek - Okay - it gets through, +1 die is set aside.

Invocation of Nehek - Okay - it gets through, +1 die is set aside.

Van Hel's Danse - dispelled with 3 dice by the Daemon player.

Van Hel's Danse - failed to dispel, no Dispel Dice left for Daemon...it gets through, so +1 more die is set aside.

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Start of Tzeentch players next Magic Phase:

Lord of Change- 4 Power Dice

Herald Tzntch- 2 Power Dice

Herald Tzntch- 2 Power Dice

Lvl-1 Wizard Horrors- 1 Power Die

Lvl-1 Wizard Horrors- 1 Power Die

Lvl-3 Wizard Horrors- 3 Power Dice

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Common Power Dice Pool has 2 basic, plus +4 bonus dice from the Energy Syphon ability of the Bluescribes !

POTENTIALLY...the Lord of Change (who knows all spells from the Daemon Lore of Tzeentch by default), can have 10 Power Dice to play around with, 4 basic, plus all 6 from the Common Pool ! :evilgrin:

xragg
25-04-2008, 00:53
Not unlike a normal the mortal Tzeentch army, which can easily have 7-8 PD in their general pool at the 2k level. I had 10 PD in my general pool in my 3.5k army, and luckily never rolled a single 6 when I played VC for his black coach; he was so amazed in my luck.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
25-04-2008, 00:57
Right..well the "bonus Power dice to your pool" thing is an entirely new thing for Daemons ! That's what makes it so exciting to us D-legion players.


It also allows for some outrageous combos of spells with the Lord of Change, Fateweaver, etc.

guillaume
25-04-2008, 01:20
whoa this is going to be a killer against ogre kingdom armies which can cast 3-4 gut magic spells a turn.

bojo
25-04-2008, 16:25
Cum on they r only 81 points even is it is if u dont dispell it they r still ace and their second ability is good too.

Malorian
25-04-2008, 16:42
Does this ability work for bound spells too?

kris.sherriff
25-04-2008, 17:59
Yes it does.

Kris

Mercules
25-04-2008, 19:14
whoa this is going to be a killer against ogre kingdom armies which can cast 3-4 gut magic spells a turn.

3-4? I attempt 8 most of the time. How many get through without being dispelled mostly depends on my opponent. :)

speedygogo
03-05-2008, 03:44
whoa this is going to be a killer against ogre kingdom armies which can cast 3-4 gut magic spells a turn.

I played a game with the ogres and was pretty much killed by it. The blue scribes and epidedemus are unbelievable together. I think gunlies will do great angainst the new Daemons but for Ogres it is going to be very tough. We have almost no defence for most of the special characters and flammers and screamers.

Suspicions
03-05-2008, 04:09
Actually, it truly depends on what the Daemon player takes in his list. With so many units to choose from, and the amount of variety possible, I find it unlikely that you'll ever see the exact same daemon list from two players. While a gunline may work well against one Daemonic Horde, it may be relatively useless against another (Nurgle with high T can take the hits and keep coming, while against Slannesh units, you may get 1 round of effective shooting off before they are on top of you.)

It's one of the most appealing things about Daemons that you get so much choice in tactics depending on your unit selection (not to mention essentially that by collecting this army, you can play it in two systems; 40k and WFB)

Back on topic, the Bluescribes are grand in a heavy magic Daemon list, and the free random spell that he grants each turn is potentially devastating! (I see Lore of Heavens chosen more often than not) Of course, you've got to keep him safe. A decent ward and multiple wounds won't save him from much. Use that Disc he's on to keep him out of combat, and by choosing magic that doesn't require LoS (again, Heavens) you can keep him around all game by hiding him away somewhere...and yeah, he only grants that bonus dice if the spell actually goes off and is not dispelled.

That it?

madden
08-06-2008, 12:14
Nah don't use heavens use life with woods and hills and rain storms etc very good fun against dwarfs and empire, then metal against bretts, life against undead. the scribes have to be the best 81pts spent in an army and don't forget they can hide in a unit of horrors and get the look out sir save!FTW