View Full Version : Hivemind vs. Pariah

15-10-2005, 13:59
What effect, if any, would a pariah have on tyranid synapses? Would he make the little nids revert to instinct? would he have any effect on the larger nids? Or no effect at all?

If nids hive mind isn't effected by pariahs then they could use the genes themselves, but otherwise it would have an interesting effect on genestealer cults I think. Would there be problems between a Magos and cultists/hybrids with the pariah gene? What would happen if you got a Tyrant Lord with the pariah gene? He certainly wouldn't be able to be a psyker as well.

But it brings up interesting questions in terms of souls. The emotions and drives of souled beings are what fuel the Chaos Gods and other warp entities. Some souls are more potent than others ie Eldar as compared to say Tau. I assume that since soullessness means pariah then potent souls are psykers. So that means psychic nids have souls? But I guess they fuel the Hive mind which could be similar to the Emperor in terms of a being that straddles both worlds, the warp and the real world. So if psychic nids don't really have a mind of their own and are just pawns of the hive mind could the hive mind make soulless nids? Could it control them? How would it effect it?

Just some random questions to think on...

ML Kurze
15-10-2005, 22:41
It would be most likely that the psychic aspect of the Hivemind would be disrupted. However, a Pariah or Blank, does not have a very large area of effect, so it could be very likely that the Pariah needs to get close than the area of effect.
For more information on Blanks, please read 'For the Emperor' by Sandy Mitchell, since it mentions the effect of a Pariah on a Genestealer Cult (including the big boss). In addition, it has a very nice bit on Tau diplomacy *giggles*
Hope this helps. :)

15-10-2005, 22:50
Im not that knowledgeable about 'nid fluff, but it would depend. I know that they affect the warp, but are they dependant on it? If they are not dependant on the warp, a Pariah should have no influence on them.

15-10-2005, 23:05
Why would a Norn Queen select the pariah gene for a brood of tyranids except for a closely watched experiment? You have to remember that tyranid genetics are designed, its not just a case of becoming what you eat.

I could imaging it being a big problem for genestealers though because they don't seem to have the same amount of control.

ML Kurze
15-10-2005, 23:15
I know that they affect the warp, but are they dependant on it? If they are not dependant on the warp, a Pariah should have no influence on them.
Not really. They need the warp for their powers, like all psychic powers. The tihng they have with the warp is that the power of the Hivemind is so overwhelming, the normal disturbances in the warp disappear because of that power. So, yes they need the warp, but they usually have no trouble with the warp because of the Hivemind's power. Meaning a Pariah would disrupt the Hivemind's power. And not suffering from the whole problem that the Hivemind gives to people equipped with souls.

16-10-2005, 03:53
It's possible that the nids would use the gene to make nulls for avoiding detection by psychics, but unlikely if this would disrupt communication. Or it might make pariahs to assassinate psykers and stuff, but it's similarly unlikely if it means the nids can't get their hive mind on.

With genestealers, they need the magos don't they? To call the tyranid fleet towards them. I thought that was the whole point of genestealer cults, to eat away as much defence as possible while drawing fleets to their worlds. So a genestealer cult made entirely of pariahs would basically be cut off, but a genestealer cult with one or two pariahs would either kill the pariahs or save them for a special purpose but keep them away from the Magos.

I haven't read that book (hobviously) and I'm not really in a position to get it any time soon. Any chance you could post some broad details? Or if it contains spoilers maybe pm me? I have an idea for an Inquisitor story and it would really help.

ML Kurze
16-10-2005, 09:58
The Pariah gene would never be used by the Hive fleets. It would destroy communication, as you said, and therefor the Hive specimen would be able to 'reason' for itself.
Book details are in your PM.

22-03-2007, 17:29
A pariah has no 'echo' in the warp. As such they cannot be psychers and their presence causes discomfort to psychers. taking this into account imagine a hive ship with the pariah gene. It wouldn't be able to communicate with the rest of the fleet or with its spawn. that would mean an entire army of 'nids that work completely independently with their own agendas like any other race.

Khaine's Messenger
23-03-2007, 00:41
What effect, if any, would a pariah have on tyranid synapses?

Depends on the "strength" of the Pariah/Untouchable in question. Most people probably wouldn't notice, since Nids tend to swarm rather than engage in magical duels. It's more likely to be an annoyance to Nids attempting to warp blast the Pariah as opposed to just trying to kill him. Zoanthropes, mind you, might get a bit wonky....

So that means psychic nids have souls?

They have strong warp-presences. Equating this with "soul," is, imho, problematic, but most 40k literature tends to do so. The Liber Necris and Liber Chaotica go through the motions to try and discuss the idea of "soul" with regards to WHFB/WH40k cosmology, but suffice to say, yes, psychic nids have "souls."

So if psychic nids don't really have a mind of their own

They do have minds of their own after a fashion. They're just locked gears in the hive mind.

could the hive mind make soulless nids?

It could conceivably make warp-blunt tyranids, although such a distinction would, again, be meaningless unless it's for some purpose and operating away from the swarm.

Could it control them? How would it effect it?

A couple possible ways. Since psychic potential can change over time as brain chemistry/architecture changes, it is conceivable that psychic orders could be induced by contact with other tyranid entities, perhaps specially tailored tyranophages or viral constructs, or even pheromones (a trick that they hardly need anyone else to teach them). The Tyranids, after all, do engage in biological warfare on multiple levels. Another way, of course, is overpowering psychic presence--some lesser "untouchables" are still reachable depending on the nature of their "soulless" existence. It's none too pleasant, of course, but Tyranids don't seem to care about such details.

The most interesting use for the pariah "gene" would in the most highly expendable "creatures" in the army...the living ammo. ;)

23-03-2007, 16:53
I think i would kinda imagine it to be a bit like a slug sensing salt in its path, recoiling back from it. On a larger scale you'd probably need a lot of pariahs in any one area [like maybe a culexus training world, or the outsiders tombworld] in order to have any large scale effect

23-03-2007, 21:53
Well, I hate to drag wargame rules into it all, but in 2nd edition, a Culexus would cause even a Hive Tyrant to "baulk at the prospect of being permanently severed from their psychic abilities and the Hive Mind".

So yes, a trained Pariah does have an effect, and a potentially very large effect on the Tyranid Hive Mind, which is one of the things that makes the Tyranids so effective. Without the Hive Mind, they're just a bunch of animals. I guess it's one of the few hopes Mankind has to stop the critters, given how GW is making them out to be larger than life.

23-03-2007, 23:18
In the game rules, the only units a Pariah would affect would be Genestealers, Gargoyles, and Carnifexes. Those are the only units with a Ld higher than 7 that aren't naturally synapse creatures. Synapse creatures don't care what their Ld is, because they automatically pass (actually, it'd matter for any Nids that tried to use psychic powers which required a test as well). Gaunts and others like them wouldn't care, because they'd pay money to be Ld 7. "We count as Ld 7? Woo-hoo!"

In fluff terms, the Nids did avoid a Culexus training world, I believe. It's a dead zone in the Warp - a place that doesn't look hospitable.

25-03-2007, 02:58
It caused terror to all psyker units, including Hive Tyrants, I believe. Unless I have a different Codex: Assassins from everyone else ;)

25-03-2007, 08:22
Yea I remember in 2nd with a Culexus assassin toying with my hive tyrant. It won the first round and lowered my tyrants WS so it would win and brought all stats to about 1 before killing it just because he could.

27-03-2007, 17:02
I think stuff like the Synapse Creatures would probably be a bit perturbed by them. Once they'd been eaten by rippers and their genes absorbed, though, the Hive Mind would probably just dump them into their genetic wastebin along with the Scythes of the Emperor and the Lamenters :)