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Menset
28-04-2008, 15:13
I need someone outside of my club to please confirm the night goblin fanatic rule. I did a search but found nothing.

When you roll a hit on the scatter dice does the controlling player get to choose what direction the fanatic goes in or does he go in the direction of the little arrow?

Reason for question: O&G player says he can go in any direction because the White Dwarf that had the release of the new O&G in it, said that you now get to decide where the fanatic goes. But I have read the rule book and it just says the fanatic will go in a random direction.

Could someone please clear this up for me.

Thanks in advance.

T10
28-04-2008, 15:29
You will notice the little arrow on the "Hit!" faces on the scatter dice. Move the fanatic in that direction.

-T10

Urgat
28-04-2008, 15:39
What the man said. Would have been nice, though :p

forthegloryofkazadekrund
28-04-2008, 15:44
i thought it was you get to pick the direction too, damn dont have book with me, grr

Menset
28-04-2008, 15:44
Now how to convince him, he believes White Dwarf's over ride rule books.

I tried telling him the white dwarf has had many mistakes in them over the years but this guy is as stubborn as a Dwarf, which does not help.

Fhoen
28-04-2008, 16:42
You will notice the little arrow on the "Hit!" faces on the scatter dice. Move the fanatic in that direction.

-T10

i second that

Grimgormx
29-04-2008, 04:35
In the O&G book it doesnt says that fanatics should move in the direccion of the small arrow, and in the WD it saids that when you get a hit sign you can move them in the direccion you want.

So I think that you can choose the direccion if you get a hit.

T10
29-04-2008, 06:12
I don't recall the Fanatic rules explicitly mentioning the use of the Scatter dice, and certainly not that you ever get to chose the direction after the initial push. Indeed, all further movement is random.

So I think you move the fanatic in a random direction and pretty much ignore the mistakes in White Dwarf.

-T10

Milgram
29-04-2008, 06:13
uhm... the wd has nothing to say about rules - especially not in the battle reports. complete rubbish.

(yes, there are erratas etc. that have to say something about rules, but...)



btw: the o&g book doesn't say that fanatics should be moved in the direction the o&g player wants when the scatter dice shows a hit symbol. therefore you could as well argue that they don't move at all or the opponent should choose the direction.

Raga
29-04-2008, 07:28
The old OnG book had the rule that if oyu rolled a hit you could choose the direction, but it also had the rule that they ignored armour ;)

Unfortunately, the small arrow is your direction, now get spinning.

T10
29-04-2008, 08:24
The old OnG book had the rule that if oyu rolled a hit you could choose the direction, ...

That is not true. Neither the 4th edition or 6th edition allowed this.

-T10

EvC
29-04-2008, 10:46
People appear to be making up rules once again.

SPYDER68
29-04-2008, 13:49
Its fun reading battle reports in WD, sometimes they give items to characters they cannot have, or units items they cannot have. They rarely get the rules right, could notice it alot in the 40k battle reports.

in other words... Go bye the rulebook. codex and Gamesworkshop onlines official FAQ's only.

Unless its a temp army list etc that is printed in the WD like 40k's Blood Angels and upcomming Chaos.

isidril93
29-04-2008, 20:22
usually we say that they dont move at all

Braad
29-04-2008, 20:28
When the new O&G were just released they gave they bloodaxe to a mounted boss in one of their battle reports, even though it clearly states "orcs on foot only"... They make plenty mistakes.

Anyway, I think it would be very weird if you get to choose were the fanatic goes (though one of the spells makes it move towards the closest enemy...) and thus it would not be logical. But indeed, all sides of the scatter dice have arrows, so use them. A fanatic is not a rock dropping from the sky that either hits or misses.

redrum
29-04-2008, 21:19
Who comes up with this stuff, seriously. The whole point of a fanatic is that he's a goblin chained to a big metal ball that's heavier than he is. Once the ball starts spinning he can't control himself. You use the scatter dice and he goes whichever direction the arrow is pointing, even the arrow on the "hit" marker. Being able to choose the direction would completely defeat the purpose of the fanatic.

sephiroth87
30-04-2008, 04:08
I don't think it would defeat the purpose at all. It was probably a rule when they did the battle report, then got changed before the book came out. Magazines usually have a lead time of several months, so it would be pretty easy to have minor changes happen after the initial report was written.

As far as logic goes, it's a tiny dude hyped up on PCP. I think he could have lucid moments where he sees an enemy and starts swinging towards them. But since it's fantasy, I don't worry about it and simply play games.

Furthermore, GW is slowly coming around to the idea that random unit does not have to equal suckage. Case in point: Lootas in 40k or the shokk attack gun. Those guys are really random, but people still take them. There's enough of a positive payoff so that it's worth taking the risks of the negatives. Fanatics that took away armor saves had a big payoff. Now? They still have positives (no crazy randomness against flyers or tunnelers), but they're not the cavalry killers they used to be.

T10
30-04-2008, 06:39
Regardless: The Fanatic rules only state that it moves 2d6" in a random direction using the scatter dice. There are no special provisions for rolling the "Hit!" result, and even that face provides you with a random direction.

-T10

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
30-04-2008, 07:19
God, I wish I could remember where I looked when this question came up for me before! I wasn't sure what to do for a hit either, so I looked it up somewhere...GAH!... and found out that yes, indeed, the controlling player gets to choose the direction. I know, I know, you're all saying I have no proof and you don't believe me. Fair enough. I'm calling Games Workshop tomorrow to find out the deal.

It could be completely logical that you could control the movement. It doesn't necessarily represent the Fanatic choosing where he wants to go, it means that the controlling player is fortunate enough to be able to direct his movement. It's just amore of a representation of his "random" movement going in a direction that is really beneficial to the controlling player. Once again, I'm sure there will be plenty of people to disagree and even if GW tells me something on the phone, there'll be plenty of "GW hobby specialists don't know crap!" but I remember finding the information somewhere, being surprised about it, and being content that the information was from a reputable source, and not just something I plucked out of thin air.

I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Tarax
30-04-2008, 08:31
The biggest problem with the Scatter Dice is, it doesn't mention anymore in the rulebook that the little arrow can be used also.

In the O&G book it says the Fanatic moves in a random direction decided by the Scatter Dice. There are now 2 ways of solving a 'Hit'; the Fanatic stays put, as there is no direction indicated; or you re-roll the Scatter Dice to get an arrow-symbol.

Of course there is a third option: move the Fanatic in the direction of the little arrow on the 'Hit'-symbol, as everyone else does.

T10
30-04-2008, 09:16
The Fanatic does not stay put as it is required to move an random distance in a random direction. While the player may find determining the direction to be immediately perplexing, the aspect of distance remains free of mindnumbing ambiguity.

So: You have to move the fanatic, and you can't chose the direction.

-T10

Braad
30-04-2008, 09:24
Okay, got the rule in front of me now.

It says "...moving 2d6" in a random direction (determined by the scatter dice)" (pg 25 O&G armybook).

So, nowhere I read that it can also move in a direction chosen by the player. It says "random". It also says it moves 2d6", so why should it stand still? That's all there is to it. And since every side of the scatter dice has a arrow pointing in a direction, I don't see why the "HIT" symbol suddenly means that the 2D6 random movement would suddenly not be random or would be 0D6... You should do what the rules say, not what they don't say or what you might want them to say.

I think if GW had any intent of the HIT symbol to mean something else, than the rule had been something like "...moving 2d6" in a random direction determined by the scatter dice or in a chosen direction if a hit is rolled."

---EDIT---

Just as a little example, nowhere it says that a doom diver does 12D6 extra damage if you roll the "HIT" symbol. It would be silly if I did apply this since it also doesn't say anywhere that it does not do 12D6 extra damage.

Grimgormx
01-05-2008, 03:39
I agree, Maybe the scatter dice needs more explanation, because when you roll a hit with a catapult that means that the rock went in the right direction.

Why shouldnt a fanatic go in the right direccion if he gets lucky?

As long as you use a dice, even the hit side is a ramdom direccion, because you arent sure you will get it.

Fanatics lost a lot of efectivity in these new rules, and they cost the same.

I think you should give a little advantage to your favorite orc players, after all I have lost to many units on the balls of my fanatics.

T10
01-05-2008, 07:43
Why shouldnt a fanatic go in the right direccion if he gets lucky?


These are the mysteries that haunt us!

-T10

Tarax
01-05-2008, 08:15
I wasn't serious by saying the Fanatic should stay put. It was just a suggestion. As Grimgormx said, when a Stone Thrower or similar gets a hit, it was in the right direction.

That's why I also said everyone else uses another method.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
01-05-2008, 15:49
Well, I called up GW and they said that indeed, you use the arrow marker on the hit symbol to direct the fanatic. Now the only thing I have left to figure out is where the heck I got the idea of choosing the direction...

Braad
01-05-2008, 18:35
In 6th edition book, the dice were actually explained, IIRC... I couldn't find anything on that in the 7th edition book, so I can imagine confusion with the little arrow-thingy on the HIT symbol.

Anyway, to give some further thought on this, I checked a bit more rules. For the stone thrower it is a direct hit if you roll the HIT symbol, but this different outcome than just scattering is also explicitely mentioned in the rules for stone throwers. Since there are no alternate outcomes given in the fanatic other than "random movement" I guess that's what you do. Move random.

Grimgormx
02-05-2008, 05:02
Ok, I agree, it was weird for me when I red in WD that fanatics could move in the dessired direcction with a hit simbol, since in 6 th it was clearer.

Chadjabdoul
02-05-2008, 12:28
Unfortunately, the O&G armybook is quite badly written. This is probably the biggest rules problem in the whole army.
I got the white dwarf issue before the army book and was happy to read that the O&G player could choose the direction the fanatic goes if a 'hit' is rolled, (in the words of the stupid guy who wrote the book).
When I got the new book there was nothing about it. It's written as if there is no 'hit' on the scatter dice.
No erratas or faqs have clarified this, to my knowledge.
I think the white dwarf rule should stand since it's the only GW document that states what happens if a 'hit' is rolled. Then again I am an orc&goblins player...

Urgat
02-05-2008, 13:06
Actually, the fact that the rules tell me that my fanatics should die if they happen to cross a road or a strand of grass is more bothersome to me... (lol, thinking about the wording of the rules, shouldn't fanatics die on release anyway, since they enter the table, and therefore come into contact with a terrain feature :p)?
And the guy was proud of having kept the fanatic rules on one page, he was almost gloating about it :/

EvC
02-05-2008, 13:55
Heh, I did happen upon that old WD today, and it does indeed say you can nominate the direction if you roll a hit. If only the rulebook actually said that too, eh? ;)

Urgat
02-05-2008, 15:19
Well, that would make up for the "ignore saves" rule gone... The way it's written, it actually sounds like he has forgotten to write the rule in the armybook, really >>

king.rat
02-05-2008, 15:47
Regardless: The Fanatic rules only state that it moves 2d6" in a random direction using the scatter dice. There are no special provisions for rolling the "Hit!" result, and even that face provides you with a random direction.

-T10

i agree to that as i did have a little stint with the greenskins and the little arrom on the hit face of the dice is the best option.

T10
02-05-2008, 16:38
Well, that would make up for the "ignore saves" rule gone... The way it's written, it actually sounds like he has forgotten to write the rule in the armybook, really >>

I would think that including the Armour Piercing rule would be plenty of indication that armour saves have indeed been taken into account.

-T10

Urgat
02-05-2008, 16:53
I would think that including the Armour Piercing rule would be plenty of indication that armour saves have indeed been taken into account.

-T10

I meant the "hit" thing. Should have made a clearer sentence :p

Gazak Blacktoof
02-05-2008, 17:33
It would make a great house rule.