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Reflex
29-04-2008, 02:55
Salamanders have been a favorite chapter of mine for a wile, simply because of there background from the days of the heresy to they way the chapter is organized and their persona.

anyway, i was reading some fluff on them from just after the heresy, because they had to little marines they did not have a second founding. one thing i cant find anything on is subsequent foundings. i have a sus feeling that the salamanders are the only original chapter to not have any other foundings.

i remember though, that there was 1 chapter that was similar to the salamanders (slower reactions, darker skin, hardiness etc etc), cant remember what it was called, but there was no proof they were a sub founding.

also another random tid bit, this chapter seems to be the chapter with the littlest amount of fluff. just me? or gw just dont like them?

(also, vulkans fluff is horribe, 'he just went missing.. wtf :wtf: want a better story)

Hellebore
29-04-2008, 03:43
Yep, no other known foundings.

There were rumours that the Black Dragons were derived from their geneseed, but it's never been confirmed.

The Salamanders don't have any known genetic deviations, so it's a real mystery as to why they don't have any offshoot chapters.

Hellebore

devolutionary
29-04-2008, 03:46
So it has been outright said that there are no latter foundings based on Salamander's gene-seed? Everything I'd read was based on there being no 2nd founding, so it's interesting if they've said this, especially when you consider how many chapters have no known lineage.

Feor
29-04-2008, 03:47
There are no published Salamanders successors. However, the only absolute concrete list of successor chapters we have are the second founding chapters, where the Salamanders were still below chapter strength, so no splitting.

However, they have a strong and pure Geneseed, a glorious history, and relatively close ties to the other Adepti of the Imperium. To believe that in the last 10,000 years not one successor chapter has been founded using the Geneseed of the Salamanders is foolish. Whoever they are, they're just not terribly famous.

Hellebore
29-04-2008, 03:49
As far as I know it's actually a big mystery as to why the Salamanders have NO descendents.

It's been commented on in previous books and I think the IA Salamanders article.

The only other chapter to have so few descendent chapters is the Space Wolves - they either have no descedents or one depending on the origin of the Wolf brothers.

Hellebore

Reflex
29-04-2008, 03:56
The only other chapter to have so few descendent chapters is the Space Wolves - they either have no descedents or one depending on the origin of the Wolf brothers.

Hellebore

I thought the wolf brothers were wiped out for cause unkown relating to gene seed, can anyone clear this up? i hear they had a problem with mutaions (like the space wolfs but incredibly horrible bone deformations and such)

Hellebore
29-04-2008, 04:00
Well, there was an IA article a long time ago with SW sagas written on parchment that gave a different origin to the Wolf brothers - they were just a Great Company that had seceeded from the Space Wolves.

I believe it even goes into detail over which origin is correct or not, making the inference that even Imperial archivists don't know their origin (although they are universally referred to as 'ill-fated').

The space wolves and salamanders are my two favourite chapters, perhaps these similiarites are part of the reason?

Hellebore

starlight
29-04-2008, 04:05
Just because there are no *known* Successors....;)

After all, Imperial bookkeeping isn't renowned for either accuracy or timeliness.:p


My Legio Phoenix Templars are not exactly a *Successor*, but close. They are descendants of Salamanders from the time of the Heresy...and no, I'm not going to past their history here, I'm off to dinner.:p

Nazguire
29-04-2008, 06:33
On the Armageddon 3 website there were the 'Draconians' Chapter featured that suggested strongly that they were of Salamander descent.

starlight
29-04-2008, 06:39
There have been several *rumoured* or *suggested* Successors, but nary a one has been confirmed...

Sister_Sin
29-04-2008, 10:03
There are two Chapters (at least) rumored to be created from Salamanders gene-seed; the Black Dragons and the Storm Giants. In the new Chaos Dex there is a Renegade Chapter that has strong similarities to Salamanders preferences but nothing is said as to their actual origin. I can't recall the name right off and the Dex is put away.

Salamanders were always the smallest, both as a 1st Founding Legion and now as a Chapter and you are correct, there are no records of any subsequent Chapters created using their gene-seed. I rather like the uniqueness of the Chapter that way. ;)

Sister Sin, into the fires of battle, unto the anvil of war!

Reflex
29-04-2008, 10:08
Salamanders were always the smallest, both as a 1st Founding Legion and now as a Chapter and you are correct, there are no records of any subsequent Chapters created using their gene-seed. I rather like the uniqueness of the Chapter that way. ;)

Sister Sin, into the fires of battle, unto the anvil of war!

Unfortunately i would assume that they are also the least played 1st founding chapter. which sucks. Melta weapons and flamers for the win in close quarter fighting.

Kurisu313
29-04-2008, 10:25
My DIY chapter was originally called a salamanders successor, mainly due to the fact that I use the Dragon's head as my chapter icon. After I read the fluff that the sallies have no *known* successors, I've kept the origins of mine vague.

We're just a chapter that likes flamers, meltas and thunderhammers that inducts kids at age 6 and mixes with the planetary population. So no similarities there, then ;)

Templar Ben
29-04-2008, 10:58
That is strange because the three that fought against splitting up their legions into chapters were Dorn, Russ, and Vulkan. So Russ and Vulkan in the end kept their legions under a chapter name and Dorn created the Black Templar that also rejected the Codex.

Good Times.

Reflex
29-04-2008, 11:10
That is strange because the three that fought against splitting up their legions into chapters were Dorn, Russ, and Vulkan. So Russ and Vulkan in the end kept their legions under a chapter name and Dorn created the Black Templar that also rejected the Codex.

Good Times.

i believe dorn only gave in because the imperial fleets were powering up there weapons and were ready to fire on Dorns fleet, where as vulkan was having trouble sustaining his geene seed after the Istvaan V incident. i am not sure about russ, but i think at the time he was off fighting somthing or someone..

(correct me if i am wrong) ;)

Corax
29-04-2008, 11:23
The Salamanders are known to have spawned no Successor chapters during the First Founding, as their numbers were too low, both as a result of the massacre at Istvaan V and due to their slow recruiting process. Since then, it is possible that other successors could have been created, but it has never been confirmed, only speculated.


I thought the wolf brothers were wiped out for cause unkown relating to gene seed, can anyone clear this up? i hear they had a problem with mutaions (like the space wolfs but incredibly horrible bone deformations and such)

My understanding was that they were 'disbanded due to genetic instability', which I would take to mean that the failure rate of new recruits was very high and that they could not induct enough recruits to maintain a viable fighting force - or that they all turned in to Wulfen.

Goruax
29-04-2008, 11:32
Wasn't Russ chasing off the Traitors after Terra?
Vulkan's Legion was maimed and couldn't support any successors at the time, but he was a major opposer to the splitting.
Dorn buckled, as Reflex said, because it would've caused another in-fight.

The_Outsider
29-04-2008, 11:39
Last I checked after the heresy the Salamanders vowed not to create any chapters as atonement for not being there at the final battle to save the Emperor so they kinda had a geenral "kill chaos" creed thing going.

IIRC it was something along the lines of "[Salamanders] They vowed not to create any chapters from the legion while their twisted brethren still lived"

[edit] I think this comes from either the 3rd ed codex or the salamanders IA article.

Reflex
29-04-2008, 11:56
Last I checked after the heresy the Salamanders vowed not to create any chapters as atonement for not being there at the final battle to save the Emperor so they kinda had a geenral "kill chaos" creed thing going.

IIRC it was something along the lines of "[Salamanders] They vowed not to create any chapters from the legion while their twisted brethren still lived"

[edit] I think this comes from either the 3rd ed codex or the salamanders IA article.

I have never heard that before, but if that source is correct then that would explain it.

Templar Ben
29-04-2008, 12:05
i believe dorn only gave in because the imperial fleets were powering up there weapons and were ready to fire on Dorns fleet, where as vulkan was having trouble sustaining his geene seed after the Istvaan V incident. i am not sure about russ, but i think at the time he was off fighting somthing or someone..

(correct me if i am wrong) ;)

All I have are the words in the Codex Black Templars page 6.

Sister_Sin
29-04-2008, 13:09
As to the Salamanders not splitting their Legion due to a vow against Chaos, I don't recall that. Then again my memory isn't what it used to be. I do, however, have everything printed from RT to now and I'll go back and hunt it down if I can. If so that is a very interesting bit of fluff and very, very cool. :)

It dovetails nicely with the legend that Vulkan will return someday to lead the Chapter against Chaos in a final victory. Fascinating! Now all I have to do is go storage diving. LOL

Sister Sin