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Kloud13
30-04-2008, 04:48
Can a Monster that failed it's leadership, and Rolled "Whimper" on the Monster Reaction Chart, be moved by "The Wolf Hunts" from the Lore of Beasts?

T10
30-04-2008, 06:35
This is (obviously) not addressed by the rules.

It seems reasonable to assume that movement spells may not be used to move units that currently do not otherwise have the ability to move, e.g. casting Unseen Lurker on the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood or the Dwarf Anvil of Doom. I guess you can discuss the difference between terms like "cannot move", "will not move" and "may not move", but basically this is a restriction vs. a compulsion: One will override the other.

Discuss the situation with your opponent and if you do not agree then you should roll a dice for it.

-T10

][nquist0r
01-05-2008, 02:48
This is (obviously) not addressed by the rules.

It seems reasonable to assume that movement spells may not be used to move units that currently do not otherwise have the ability to move, e.g. casting Unseen Lurker on the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood or the Dwarf Anvil of Doom. I guess you can discuss the difference between terms like "cannot move", "will not move" and "may not move", but basically this is a restriction vs. a compulsion: One will override the other.

Discuss the situation with your opponent and if you do not agree then you should roll a dice for it.

-T10

I do in fact disagree. The unit is magicly compelled to move and as such may move. For example if beast cowers were cast on me successfully in your turn, I may not more in regular movement, but if I get off Unseen Lurker in my magic phase then those guys are moving. Period. As its movement happening in another phase than 'the movement phase' Id say it is completely legal to do so.

ehlijen
01-05-2008, 04:19
That's assuming the target has the ability to move. What if someone were to cast such a spell on an uncrewed warmachine? Does it suddenly move on it's own? The monster in question obviously once had the ability to move, but it now 'can not move'. What does 'can' mean? 'May' or 'is capable'?

In this case, I personally would say the caster will have to make an opposed ld test with the monster to see if he can't convince it stop being such a baby, but that's just an opinion not supported by any rules.

Draconian77
01-05-2008, 04:28
Oh damn, here we go again.

Personally I think units that are immobile should not be able to move in any way but that units with a capacity for movement may be moved magically.

Of course this is just opinion.

WLBjork
01-05-2008, 05:11
Don't know the item and spell in question, but I'd guess this is similar to the casting of "Call of the Hunt" on a unit under the effects of the "Banner of Midwinter".

If so, check the Wood Elves Q&A (last question, right hand side).

IronBrother
01-05-2008, 05:27
I would say that they would not be able to move, as in the monster reaction chart states that the model may not move for the rest of the battle (except to face). Remember it is afraid, its loving master just got killed. If nothing else prevails dice it off.

WLBjork has a good point with the WE Q&A.

Festus
01-05-2008, 07:08
Hi

For rules' reasons, I agree with T10 (it is not exactly covered in the rules - so discuss or roll a die).
For fluff reasons, the description makes me think that the aggression of a cowering Monster can hardly be boosted. I would argue in favour of having the monster stay put.

Festus

Shamfrit
01-05-2008, 08:16
Animosity Result of 1, + Waaagh!! Spell....

I'd say it would move, but seems to be dicing it off is the way to go.

DeathlessDraich
01-05-2008, 08:37
This is (obviously) not addressed by the rules.

It seems reasonable to assume that movement spells may not be used to move units that currently do not otherwise have the ability to move, e.g. casting Unseen Lurker on the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood or the Dwarf Anvil of Doom.

Unseen Lurker, Steed of Shadows, Wild Call etc will not affect any unit/model/character that cannot move.
The phrase "normal move" is used in its description.

Same thing for TK Urgency Incantation.


Can a Monster that failed it's leadership, and Rolled "Whimper" on the Monster Reaction Chart, be moved by "The Wolf Hunts" from the Lore of Beasts?

Same problem can occur with Waagh, Hand of Gork, Call of the Hunt and Banners giving extra D6 or 2D6 movement. Most (all?) of them do not stipulate a 'normal move'.
Closest possible solution is suggested in the latest FAQ - see below



but seems to be dicing it off is the way to go.

This is the recommended method of the latest FAQ - "irresistible force meets an immovable object"

BloodiedSword
01-05-2008, 08:41
I think Wolf Hunts is, as T10 et al have said, one of those immovable object vs irresistable force things.

However, other similar situations are not necessarily.

First note that some effects say "may not move in its next movement phase". In that case, magically propelled movement is obviously fine.

Others say "will not move for the rest of the battle" such as whimper, and that obviously includes magic phases as well as movement phases. In that case you need to look at what the spell says.

Some spells like Wolf Hunts say "The unit moves...", leading to the situation above - dice off for it every time it comes up.

Some spells like Unseen Lurker say "The unit can immediately make a move in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase". In that case, if the target may not move in the movement phase (e.g. it is being affected by a spell that says that it "may not move in its next turn") then it may not be propelled magically either.

So the point I'm trying to make is - every such pair of effects is worded differently (thanks GW!) so you have to look at each individually - what happens with one is generally no help in deciding the effect of another.

EDIT: lol, beaten by DeathlessDraich as I was writing this. I basically agree with everything he says :p