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View Full Version : Beastmen "Raiders", or "Mob rule"...



squalie
01-05-2008, 21:35
I need to find a definative answer to this as it has caused problems in the last couple of tournaments.... Go figure.

A Beastherd of 19 (8 Gors/ 11 ungors) has two characters in it. 1 Wargor and one Beastlord. I charged a unit of Dwarf Warriors. Now 25% of the models were in charge range, but at the time I declared the charge, the Beastlord, which had the mark of Khorne, was in the centre of the unit. When I moved the models into base to base, the Dwarf player countered that the Beastlord couldn't be put into the front rank until the next combat round because the Beastlord model was actually 11 inches away when I declared the charge. I had read, and inferred, that with the "raiders" rule you automatically placed all characters in the front rank, regardless. I was over-ruled by the tourny judge and the game went on. This also happened at the next tourny.

Now, looking into this further I have put this together:

Charging Skirmishers; Rulebook pg 65. "Any models unable to reach(because they don't have enough movement or because there is no space left in the fighting line) are placed in the rear ranks so that the unit forms up in what looks like a regular formation behind the models that have formed the fighting line." (see diagrams overleaf) *
* Diagram 66.2 shows that only the models in range come into base contact.

Next paragraph says: "If the skirmishing unit includes a banner, champion or musician, and any character that has joined the unit, such models are then moved to the fighting rank if there is enough space, swapping places with ordinary models." Now, it says if there is enough space. Does that mean if there is enough space for ALL of the characters?

Beasts of Chaos book pg 19. "If charged or charging, the unit forms up as described for units with Mob Rule. Once the unit has been formed up, move any Champions, Standard Bearers, Musicians and characters within the unit to the front rank.

What is Mob Rule? Does this allow me to move characters into the front rank regardless of the distance from the charged unit?

What I need is an answer that I can have supported, so that when I'm in a tourny I can hold the rulebook/errata up high.

Thank you.

Masque
01-05-2008, 21:49
The sentence mentioning Mob Rule is completely insane and unnecessary. I believe it was supposed to say Skirmish rather than Mob Rule but there is no proof one way or another as there is no FAQ or errata on the subject.

However, both the Skirmishers and Beastmen Herds rules clearly tell you to move characters and command models to the front. There is no requirement that those models were in charge range themselves.

Chicago Slim
01-05-2008, 23:09
Agreeing with Masque, I'll also note that the character, in this case, MUST replace a rank-and-file trooper who was itself in range.

Nurgling Chieftain
01-05-2008, 23:19
...I really don't know what to say about tournament judges who overrule the clear text of the codex. I'm not sure there's something you can "do" about that.

Famder
01-05-2008, 23:35
If you have a page number marked for them to look at they will usually side with you. It sounds like the OP didn't have anything to back up his claim at the time and did the research afterwards.

skank
02-05-2008, 09:01
Wow, a judge who overturns clear rules... Sucks

Perhaps it makes no sence but if you string out skirmishers all the way across the board and get charged, your models can travel huge distances instantly and not just characters.

You got screwed.

FranticDaemon
02-05-2008, 22:54
Just get mob of agry BoC players (or just random angry people, preferably with pitchforks and torches) and bring them with you to next turney, and if judge tries overule you, set the mob at him. That's what "Mob Rule" means.

squalie
03-05-2008, 03:38
The first time this happened, I just bit my tongue and refrained from slapping the Dwarf player who had a smug (The judge is my friend) look on his face. The second tourny (same place), I thought "alright, maybe it IS me and I don't understand the rules.

So here I am, posting this question when I actually already knew the answer. Well, thanks lads. The next time I post about this topic it will be about me taking the Judge outside for a "chat".

IronBrother
03-05-2008, 04:21
'Eadbutt 'im as it sounds like that is what judge needs. You were right (as you have backed up).

At another 'Ardboyz in the same region a judge ruled that a unit in combat to the front and rear cannot flee and are automatically destroyed when the rules clearly state that they must be surrounded.

Some judges are just plain stupid and need to be hit with the Collectors Edition rulebook, just for good measure.

destroyerlord
03-05-2008, 06:04
At another 'Ardboyz in the same region a judge ruled that a unit in combat to the front and rear cannot flee and are automatically destroyed when the rules clearly state that they must be surrounded.
Perhaps he was getting his 40k/fantasy rules mixed up? In 40k that sort of situation can happen...
As for the skirmishers thing I think its pretty obvious...you charge like normal and find how many models make it to base contact, then replace regular models for command/characters, and in the case of beastmen replace any ungors at the front with gors.