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Dragon Prince of Caledor
01-05-2008, 22:17
My friend and i always get into debates about which is more potent for its points. I hate the steam tank.. I dont think it fits in a normal game; anyways he thinks that it is nastier although it costs me 620pts vs. his 300 pt pile of metal that i cant kill (even with all the recommended tactics but let it be known that i have horrible luck. We have also never played star vs tank) How would u guys kill the dragon because besides a cannon i can see their point. I steamed down pretty much 2000pts of brets in 4 turns with it going from one side of the table to the other while only losing 5 dragon princes. Just to proove to them that it is killable i need ideas (not that i will actually give them the ideas);)

soots
01-05-2008, 22:53
Steam tank is better

Half the points. Unbreakable. And how can you say no to 5D3 S6 hits in one turn!

Shamfrit
01-05-2008, 22:58
Take charge from dragon, flank, then put units immediately behind the dragon with a Fighty Prince around, make it take an LD test, when it flees, it gets run down from what's behind it.

Next question?

theunwantedbeing
01-05-2008, 23:02
The star dragon goes down to artillery pretty fast, plus if you can beat it in combat you can kill it rather easily.
(generally a challenge can remove it, combined with flank/rear charges and such)

The stank well....you need to pummel it continually with things.
Hitting it with something like a star dragon (with prince on top with the star lance) is a good way to cripple the thing.
You can surround it with something cheap to pin it in position as well.

Cannons shred it like paper.
Or high strength monsters, you really need st7+ though...as well as being able to deal multiple wounds.

Spirit
02-05-2008, 00:29
Take charge from dragon, flank, then put units immediately behind the dragon with a Fighty Prince around, make it take an LD test, when it flees, it gets run down from what's behind it.

Next question?

Right, so in order for your plan to work you have to.

a: get a unit in position a turn before the dragon charges, and the dragon has to charge the unit of YOUR choice, with its 20" fly.

or

b: fight at least 3 rounds of combat with it, without running away. (1 - it charges, 2- your turn you get a flanker in position, 3 - his turn again, 4 - flank charge

I'm sorry but if any dragon player falls for that then you won before you set up your army.

And all this is assuming he charges the front, if he flanks a unit, you WONT last 3 round, and even when you get flanked he wont lose by enough to run.

xragg
02-05-2008, 02:05
A lord on a dragon has what, 9 attacks (5 from dragon, 4 from lord)? So 6 hits, 5 wounds are whats expected against average rank/file. The dragon still loses combat by one in that scenario just by CR. Dragons really arent nearly as hard to kill as they used to be. Not trying to take away from the power they wield, but a dragon usually needs support to cause havok in todays game.

fubukii
02-05-2008, 03:36
the star dragon gets 6 str 7 attacks that hit on 3s and the prince gets 4 str 6/7 attacks that hit on 3s

10 attacks 3+ to hit 2+ to wound = roughly 5.5 wounds on average, so sending in a star dragon to the front of a unit is a bad idea if unsupported.

while the stank can charge anything and not worry (unless they have alot of str 6 or 7)

TK421
02-05-2008, 04:51
Which would be why you use that sexy flying move to hit them in the flank. Those wings are there for a reason folks.

Milney
02-05-2008, 11:12
Which would be why you use that sexy flying move to hit them in the flank. Those wings are there for a reason folks.

If you're facing a Dragon army and you don't use terrain to either anchor your flanks or force them to spend a turn moving before the charge you deserve to lose.

If they are the front charge arc, they have to charge the front. Dragon moves to get flank charges. Unit on edge wheels 45 degrees to stop flank and if you're using a ranked up infantry list then they'll be 1" next to each other. Stoping the Dragon from using Large Target/Flying to charge over the edge units.

Dragons are deadly, but anyone thinking they are the be-all and end-all of games will find themselves losing more than they win.

For the points value, a Steam Tank is far superior to a Star Dragon. Not only does it not drain a precious Hero slot, it's also cheaper, has guns and is unbreakable. Oh and apart from the dubious spiking argument is a damn sight harder to off in one turn than a dragon (Both T6, Dragon has 7W and 3+ Scaly Skin; Steam Tank has 10 wounds and 1+ armour save).

Both will dominate a battlefield, but a savvy general really shouldn't have issues with either.

TK421
02-05-2008, 19:27
And while you are spinning your units around in circles the Dragon will keep flying around and around, breathing fire on them and the rest of the army sits back and pounds you from afar. You do realize that the Dragon isn't the only thing in the list right?

Wolfmother
02-05-2008, 19:46
i am more scared of the dragon but you can have two steam tanks(almost) for the points of thr dragon so the stank is probably better

xragg
02-05-2008, 20:03
While every missile troop is shooting your dragon that is flying circles around the army. I dont think anyone here is denying that a dragon is something that can wreck havok, but point for point, a steam tank is far more dominating.

Last tourney I took my skaven to, 2 slave units and 1 clanrat unit killed a star dragon with a lord. A unit doesnt have to "turn around" to guard against the dragon, just position itself so that when it flees, the dragon is left out to dry. Around 200 pnts of units took out a dragon using positoning. Even if his star dragon never charged, then its a win cause 600+ points flew around the board and looked pretty the whole game (or a very expensive 600 pnt breath weapon if you want to look at it that way). Likewise, those same units wouldnt even scratch a steam tank, which is the point everyone is trying to make.

winkypinky
02-05-2008, 20:26
I like the fact that nearly every strategy that dosnt involve just shooting it down, depends on that the guy with the dragon is a complete tactical failure.

- Why should he EVER charge any ranked unit in the front with a dragon?
- Why would he make a charge were there is a chance of a counter charge that will cost him 1000 points?
- Why should he ever fly his dragon around in front of cannons anyway?
- The whole case of 5 static CR vs. what the dragon + rider can kill is just not in anyway a way to demonstrate the weakness of dragons, since the dragon will come from the side/rear which means that the infantry will have a 1 point lead in the best case. (And 1000 points of nastyness can produce 2 CR without problems)
- Who in their right mind will ever charge their dragon into a combat, that will give the oppertunity for the opponent to flank it after its over run.
- It can fly. You have to be almost retarded if you can not get it to the location that you want. (And that is not were it can get flanked or other silly things.)

The only times I have had my dragon charged by anything it have been by cheap light flyers. That the dragon did eat without problems. (And then you just have to pass the Ld 10 restraint test to make it not go were your opponent planned.)

But back to topic.
I would take 2 steam tanks over 1 star dragon any day of the week. Since if 1 fails.... you have 1 more.

And when you threaten a flank with a dragon, you also happen to have a unit of something to threaten the front at the same time. So the enemy wont just turn to face it. And any army sporting dragons have something fast that can more or less make sure that the entire enemy army cant turn in silly directions to prevent the dragon from getting a good charge.

Spirit
02-05-2008, 23:03
Also, to milney, if you turnf the unit 45 degrees against my large target 20" move dragon, i will fly over the unit and charge the next one.

If you move both of them, i will have my 10" move elves mauling your flanks anyway, win win situation. Yes you can shoot dragons, but the dragon will kill warmachines and archers with ease, and still have 3 turns to kill your army from the rear.

Milney
03-05-2008, 01:07
Also, to milney, if you turnf the unit 45 degrees against my large target 20" move dragon, i will fly over the unit and charge the next one.


Fly over and charge what? If you're using a ranked infantry list, as I stated explicitly, then you'd have the mandatory 1" gap to fit a 5/6" base in.

Oh look, you dont have room to complete the charge, therefore you don't charge.

Read what I write, not skim the first sentance, please.

Not to mention that 1 failed charge with a Large Flyer is enough to hang yourself with. Oh look, I'm 1" out, you still move 20" leaving you within slapping range.

The "Dragon" camp really need to take thier heads out of the sand. Noone is denying the potency of the Star Dragon, hell I use one in my High Elf list because they're that effective.

However, the discussion is about thew comparison between the two. For the points/force organisation/versatility a Steam Tank wins hands down.

Jagosaja
03-05-2008, 09:13
Take charge from dragon, flank, then put units immediately behind the dragon with a Fighty Prince around, make it take an LD test, when it flees, it gets run down from what's behind it.

Next question?

Page 68, BRB, very last paragraph. So, the dragon will fly over your unit and this tactic is not valid. Better put that unit some 9"-10" away and make it as "deep" as possible, just to make sure it lands on it. Black Coach model suits this role perfectly.

Scallat
03-05-2008, 10:27
I wonder sometimes how many armies are meant to kill the stank at all. Dark elves + Brettonians for example? And I mean this without taking explicit stank killing equipment like killing blow against large targets (virtue of heroism). A charge from a unit of knights is likely to take off 2 maybe 3 wounds and the model isn't huge so hitting with the trebuchet is a bit tricky. How are typically low strength armies like elves or armies without cannons (brets) meant to deal with a T6 10 wound monster like that?

Makaber
03-05-2008, 11:15
That said, "2 maybe 3 wounds" go a long way in reducing its effectivness. With Dark Elves, I don't know, soften it up with Bolt Throwers maybe. Maybe Mengil Manhide could throw enough poisoned bolts at it to force a couple of failed saves, but that might be a longshot. Your best bet might be a Dogs of War giant, but that's a stupid army choice and I refuse to support the lame GW "get rich quick" scheme that is the plastic giant.

Though I agree the Steam Tank is a tad extreme. For something that is that untouchable by normal troops, it's too cheap to take, and it's a too tempting option.

Spirit
03-05-2008, 19:23
Fly over and charge what? If you're using a ranked infantry list, as I stated explicitly, then you'd have the mandatory 1" gap to fit a 5/6" base in.

Oh look, you dont have room to complete the charge, therefore you don't charge.

Read what I write, not skim the first sentance, please.

Not to mention that 1 failed charge with a Large Flyer is enough to hang yourself with. Oh look, I'm 1" out, you still move 20" leaving you within slapping range.

The "Dragon" camp really need to take thier heads out of the sand. Noone is denying the potency of the Star Dragon, hell I use one in my High Elf list because they're that effective.

Onto the tank. The steam tank cannot choose what it charges after it sets up, which means any characters with great weapons will nail it. All you need to do is 2 or 3 wounds to it and it becomes stupidly in effective. Against my undead, i laugh at a steam tank, i worry about killing a dragon because i cannot use the frostblade against it.

One cannonball and the tank is a piece of junk, a piece of junk that you may not get 150 points for and may not kill, but a 300 point gap in the army that cant do much once it takes wounds, does not beat something that can only be killed if the enemy risks it.



However, the discussion is about thew comparison between the two. For the points/force organisation/versatility a Steam Tank wins hands down.

I play undead, horde undead at that and i have never been in a game where i have been able to keep all of my units close enough to each other to stop a dragon. You cannot line up 6 or 7 units in a big block and expect them to stop a dragon.

Even if you did somehow manage to rank up 4 units to make a charge impossable, dragon flies behind you, dragon charges behind you, you can't magically line up your whole army in a turn, and again, if you turn the 3 or 4 units (probably more in an explicitly stated ranked up unit list) to face the dragon that has been flown behind your nicely ranked up line of troops, then the elves screw you, as i stated explicitly

Troops do not just have flanks, they have rears, and it is not hard for a dragon to fly behind you.

And another simmilar point, if someone ranks up side by side to stop a dragon flank charging, the dragon will not fly to the flanks, it will fly to the rears.

Unless you are playing a tool, a dragon chooses what it charges, and short of killing it in one or 2 rouns of shooting, you will not stop it charging what it wants to.

Milney
03-05-2008, 21:39
Erm, why is there a lump of text in that supposed quote, which I didn't write?

You trying to put words in my mouth?

Latro
04-05-2008, 07:29
Shooting is not the ultimate answer to Dragons (as some seem to believe). Most missile units will have problems targeting the monster due to their limited 90 degrees firing arc ... easily avoided with a 20" flying move.

Warmachines are a different matter of course, but also not a guaranteed kill against an experienced opponent. The Dragon will move forward under cover and use the next turn to get into position close to the warmachines:

- crews have to survive breath and possible shooting attack
- crews have to make possible panic test
- crews have to make terror tests
- crews have to succesfully guess/hit/wound etc

... which most of the time means only a few (if any) wounds will get through before the Dragon kills the first crew and overruns into the second.

I'd say that the Steam Tank is better value for points against armies that can't handle it, but overall the Steam Tanks far more often run into an armiy that can handle them ... and then there's nothing really effective about them at all.


:cool:

W0lf
04-05-2008, 10:25
and then there's nothing really effective about them at all.

exept the fact they will likely award no victory points and now youve dealth with them karl franz has killed half your army. Not to mention the cannons and crossbowmen that accompanied him have destoryed your warmachiens + got your units down to more managable chunks for Karl.

Seriously now thou... they are still good even if your opponent has the list to deal with them as they are unlikely to get any VPs from it. In non-tailored enviroments they are brutal.

Latro
04-05-2008, 11:17
exept the fact they will likely award no victory points and now youve dealth with them karl franz has killed half your army. Not to mention the cannons and crossbowmen that accompanied him have destoryed your warmachiens + got your units down to more managable chunks for Karl.

Seriously now thou... they are still good even if your opponent has the list to deal with them as they are unlikely to get any VPs from it. In non-tailored enviroments they are brutal.

Feel free to correct me on this (because I don't have the exact rules for Steam Tanks):

How effective is a Steam Tank once he has been hit with a multi-wound shot from a war machine? Most lists with support from war machines would have no problem delivering 2 or more of such shot in a single round ... which means the Steam Tanks can be ignored after that (and dealth with during the later rounds if there's an opportunity to score the points).

I agree that a Steam Tank will not easily yield any points (neither will a Dragon by the way), but that's not the same as being effective if it can be neutralized as a threat on such short notice.

On a side-note: I wasn't trying to prove that the Steam Tank is a bad choice, just that the Dragon is better (IMHO) ... perhaps I should have chosen different words.


:cool:

xragg
04-05-2008, 12:30
Shooting is not the ultimate answer to Dragons (as some seem to believe). Most missile units will have problems targeting the monster due to their limited 90 degrees firing arc ... easily avoided with a 20" flying move.



All a unit has to do is turn. All your archers can be in a lunch line and still shot at the large target. A dragon can almost never avoid getting shot at if a player wants to shot at it.

Give me an option of playing a person with a dragon or playing a person with a tank, I would choose the dragon everytime. So many ways to kill a dragon with my armies, so few ways to kill a steam tank.

I dont understand why you dragon fanatics are still going on about how great a dragon is. No one is disagreeing that they are great. They are only saying a steam tank is a much better point investment. For the point cost of a dragon, empire could have 2 steam tanks, so you cant really compare the dragon heads up with a steam tank.

Latro
04-05-2008, 13:33
All a unit has to do is turn. All your archers can be in a lunch line and still shot at the large target. A dragon can almost never avoid getting shot at if a player wants to shot at it.


It's really that simple huh? ... let's see:

- How impressive are those archers going to be if they get the -1 to hit because they moved? They're only strength 3! ... they'll need every bonus they can get, not get penalties! Even BS 4 units will only score one wound on average for every 10 archers, and that's before saves. (Not to mention the fact that they're now out of position to deal with the rest of the enemy ... but that's TheoryHammer)

- Crossbowmen can't move and shoot.

- Handgunners can't move and shoot.

In short: an experienced player doesn't have to be worried about regular missile units. The only thing that you should be more careful with are a few unique missile units with special rules such as Jezzails (which means you fly in under cover and deploy for terror test and breath weapon next turn ... which plays havoc on Skaven missile units.)


:cool:

(PS I'm still curious about the effect of multi-wound war machine shots on Steam Tanks.)

Copenhagan
04-05-2008, 18:49
I have not yet played against the new steam tank rules but I do know them. Between the dragon or the steam tank the more effective one is IMO the steam tank. It is 70 points cheaper then the Star Dragon.(I'm not counting the prince).

The Steam Tank has a much better save, can shoot and is unbreakable. Also tha fact that an opponent has to completely kill it to gain any VP.

The Star Dragon dose have some advantages though it can fly, and has a breath attack that causes panic. The other thing that the Dragon has is the ability to continue to be affective after it has taken half wounds.

Although the Steam Tank is a much better choice game wise IMO I would still have to go with the star Dragon as it is so much cooler looking.:angel:

W0lf
04-05-2008, 19:11
"(PS I'm still curious about the effect of multi-wound war machine shots on Steam Tanks.)"

After 3 wounds its game is up realistically. However it is T7 so you want cannons to deal with it.. Not many armies have them (i know DOW but...)

In non-tailored enviroments stanks win evertime. Any army without good warmachines will likely have big problems with a steam tank. Theres alot more armies that fall into that catagory then you think their is.. Oh and seriously dont underestimate the Vp denial power.

Lugburz
04-05-2008, 19:36
Steam Tanks suck, I usually just move my goblins into them and spike them... Ok, I'm kidding :p, haha

Lord Anathir
04-05-2008, 19:56
for steam tank: Hope I roll spirit of the forge on my book of hoeth mage. If I dont, then I have to redirect it with eagles and other cheap things and keep it of the way of important things. If my opponent deploys it in the open I can weaken it/slow it down with rbt. If my opponent deploys it on a flank in cover, the units I put on that flank are pretty effed.

for star dragon: Hope I roll beast cowers on book of hoeth mage. If not, I have to weaken it with rbt fire and simply sacrifice things to stop it from killing my whole army. Its really tough to do seeing as it can fly over redirecters. If I kill the prince and he kills a block of infantry, thats approximately an equal trade off. Hopefully the rest of my army can gang up on his. dealing with the star dragon is really situational, but 2/3 of the times I will roll beast cowers and wont have to worry about him. If I dont, I will be more hard pressed to win, so I might have to scrap out a draw and play some smart warhammer. You can't win em all, but in a tourney a draw is decent.

Latro
04-05-2008, 20:05
I'm always in for a challenge! A bit of this is gueswork, but I'm sure any mistakes will be pointed out to me ASAP ;)

Possible Steam Tank counter-measures:

The Empire: The average Empire army will always have cannons with them and probably more of them than the enemy has Steam Tanks ... I wonder what happens if both sides bring Steam Tanks?

The Dwarfs: If there's one army that can outgun the Empire, it's the Dwarfs. Cannons, Stone Throwers with re-rolls and Bolt Throwers with strength-Runes spell doom for the Steam Tanks ... they are advised to take a detour.

Bretonnia: They have the Trebuchet ... but it's not a common sight in the average list. A charge by a lance of Grail Knights should work, but they'll probably not destroy it it one go and then they're stuck in combat with an unbreakable piece of metal. Repeated charges by small throw-away lances seems best.

The Ogre Kingdoms: Not sure about what leadbelchers can do ... probably not enough strength. I'm pretty sure they'll have some magic weapons with very high strength and stuff like that ... it might be a bit tricky to get the charge though.

The Wood Elves: Is the Steam Tank any good in terrain? If it's not, a tree-surfing Treeman or two would do wonders. Surf towards the Steam Tank, corner it and charge it with Treemen from the forest.

The High Elves: Repeater Bolt Throwers are staple in about every list and should do a pretty good job of taking a few wounds of it. Magic also becomes interesting ... High Elves can choose lores, get almost guaranteed irresistable force spells and the lore of Metal has spell that increase in strength as the save of their target becomes better. :eek: ... oh yes, and they have a Dragon.

The Dark Elves: Pretty much the same as the High Elves, minus the magic.

The Tomb Kings of Khemri: If you run into a shooting list with multiple Skull Catapults the Steam Tanks are doomed ... if it's an offensive cavalry type list you're fine.

The Vampire Counts: They have a lot of options that can become a problem for the Steam Tank, but nothing that spells guaranteed doom. Characters with very nasty offensive combinations and strength 7, more strength 7 cavalry, ethereal stuff, unbreakable units that grow in size, again the lore of Metal and a strong magic phase ... be careful.

Orcs and Goblins: I dunno to be honoust ... they're to unpredictable. You might end up in a whirlwind of Fanatics ... or a barrage of Spear Chukka's and Rock Lobbas. You'll probably be fine if you're a bit careful though.

Lizardmen: Watch out for Kroxigors with a screen of Skinks ... oh yes, and their magic too (especially if they have a very fat Frog with them).

Chaos (in all flavours): Chaos specializes in lots of high-strength attacks ... but will be vulnerable to shooting while it tries to get near. That big nasty Dragon might be a problem though.

... something like that?


:cool:

W0lf
04-05-2008, 21:13
There are so many flaws with latros list its not worth listing.

Sufface to say none of them fix the VP denial problem, most have little room for error, some assume you opponent is a 3 year old and also it assumes you have the tools in your list.

Latro
04-05-2008, 21:35
There are so many flaws with latros list its not worth listing.

Sufface to say none of them fix the VP denial problem, most have little room for error, some assume you opponent is a 3 year old and also it assumes you have the tools in your list.

You really, really, really need to learn how to read more carefully. As you might have noticed, for most armies I already pointed out if the units needed were common or not and if it is likely to succeed against a careful Empire player.

No, I did not spell out every tactic in a turn-by-turn list ... I expect the reader to put in a little effort as well.

As for the VP-denial, this only works up to a certain point. If you pay x amount of points just to prevent the opponent from gaining x amount of VP's with a unit that ends up doing nothing on the battlefield ... you're not getting a good deal. It should at least be able to keep a reasonable amount of the enemy occupied ... Dragons will always do that, Steam Tanks less.


:cool:

The Red Scourge
05-05-2008, 05:44
They're two very different choices with different purposes.

The dwagon is an option to boost and protect your prince, an enhancement to an already expensive model. Thus it works both to preserve your points (prince + dwagon) and denying them to your opponent as well as adding destructive power. This adds to the functionality of the dwagon, as there are to keys to winning the game A: destroying your opponents points and B: denying the opponent to destroy your points.

The stank on the other hand is a model without options or upgrades. It is unreliable and has two selfdestructive mechanisms. It may have W10, but after losing only a few of these it loses its potential and falls apart degrading into an impotent tarpit. Where the dwagon would fight on till the end. This unreliability coupled with the lack of flying and points denial makes the stank cheaper.

EndlessBug
05-05-2008, 11:36
IMO the dragon far outstrips the S tank, why? this is warhammer, we all know its almost as much if not more so a battle of movement than it is a battle of killyness.

The dragon gives you so much more tactical flexability over the S tank, not only can it move 20" a turn and fry some models with its breath, it can get stuck into a combat where and if it wants. Sure it's more expensive but god darn i'd still take 1 dragon over 2 steam tanks any day!

The steam tank needs to roll under or equal to its wounds to do anything. sure you nominate how many dice you roll. If you roll 3 dice you've got a 50/50 chance it can shoot its gun and move 3" OR DO NOTHING! Sure you roll 2, but oh look now I've only got enough to move 6" OR shoot my weakened cannon which costs 3* the cost.

Sure it's VP denial, wow well done a 300 point model VP denial, what's that you're empire? I'll just take that other 1700 points of squishy models then thank you.

Ok so you take 2 S tanks and karl franz... in a tourney sure its normal, but do you really think anyone looks at the list and you and says "wow, he's a real tactical genious" or do you think they say "Great, another boring same old list with little to no tactics, this guy might as well go and play some 10 year olds"

S tank is much easier to deal with IMO, it's very slow and the big thing is you CAN largely ignore it.

A dragon is a far greater choice, I know it isnt the same but I ran a DE list with 2 manticores and a dark pegasus backed up with dark riders and COK. you know why this list won? because it had multiple units to back up the big guys.

If I took a dragon I'd make sure my whole army was fast and able to create multiple threats to a single target at once. It's how you do it, he has a hill with his war machines on? you bung your harpies, manticores, dark pegasus, dark riders and shades on that hill, Sure he might be able to stop some of the threats but those darned war machines are going down, and once they are down your manticores are FREE. you can do a similar thing with dragons, get the dragon, 2 or 3 eagles, some reavers & shadow warriors and maybe another noble on a pegasus. Use your army to wipe out anything that threatens the dragon and then take out the rest of his list with your army which will more often than not move twice as fast as him.

xragg
05-05-2008, 13:56
Endlessbug, I dont think you know how steam points work. You only ever roll 1 die, regardless of how many steam points you are generating. If SP+d6 is greater then your current wounds, you take a wound and generate no SP. An unwounded steamtank can almost safely generate all 5 SPs, charge 15", and does 6d3 impact hits on that charge. A steam tank really doesnt care what side of a unit it hits since its unbreakable. A steam tank with 5 SP can also charge 12", 5d3 impact hits, and fire its main cannon (with an addition d3 S2 steam hits on the unit it charge with no amor saves) all in the same turn.

SPYDER68
05-05-2008, 14:29
Can i choose one of the new Greater Daemons ? :P

EndlessBug
05-05-2008, 19:09
ah thank you for clarifying Xragg, I read it as 1d6 per point, thought it was WAY underpowered.

although on re-reading it the main cannon does cost 2 points to fire, so it'd need 6 SP to do the 5d3 impact hits and fire the cannon not 5.

that is much stronger than I had anticipated. Perhaps the steam tank is quite a powerful choice :) though personally i'd still take the dragon for more manouverability and reliability (let aklone the fact that the model is much nicer!)

Dragon Prince of Caledor
05-05-2008, 20:37
I have a question on steam tanks.. What happens if the main cannon misfires? Does itroll on the main misfire table?
P.S. I hate steam tanks:) I think i want to play it again. But my dice luck has hit an all time low. (played w my friends brets for a change vs his tk and i failed 5 out of 6 fear tests:()

xragg
05-05-2008, 20:47
I have a question on steam tanks.. What happens if the main cannon misfires? Does itroll on the main misfire table?
P.S. I hate steam tanks:) I think i want to play it again. But my dice luck has hit an all time low. (played w my friends brets for a change vs his tk and i failed 5 out of 6 fear tests:()

1d3 wounds when the main cannon misfires. You're right EB, I was thinking of the steam gun, which is 1 SP. The main cannon is 2 SP. 5 SP is the most you can generate in a turn.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
05-05-2008, 21:25
SO d3 automatic wounds on the tank.. sweet:) thanks for the quick response:)

Nurgling Chieftain
06-05-2008, 00:35
The dwagon...dwagon...dwagon...dwagon...This is Warhammer Fantasy Battle, not Erfworld (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html)! :p

g0ddy
06-05-2008, 00:56
....

For the points value, a Steam Tank is far superior to a Star Dragon. Not only does it not drain a precious Hero slot, it's also cheaper, has guns and is unbreakable. Oh and apart from the dubious spiking argument is a damn sight harder to off in one turn than a dragon (Both T6, Dragon has 7W and 3+ Scaly Skin; Steam Tank has 10 wounds and 1+ armour save).

Both will dominate a battlefield, but a savvy general really shouldn't have issues with either.

one is vulnerable to Spirit of the Forge, the other is not... ;)

~zilla

xragg
06-05-2008, 01:07
one is vulnerable to Spirit of the Forge, the other is not... ;)

~zilla

one is vulnerable to The Beasts Cowers, the other is not... both have a range of spells that they are vulnerable that the other isnt.

The Red Scourge
06-05-2008, 15:01
This is Warhammer Fantasy Battle, not Erfworld (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0001.html)! :p

Sorry, but I do have some trouble with the HE star dwagon, since it seems to be mandatory to the HE army. If people aren't careful there'll be none of the critters left for 8th edition;)

Milney
06-05-2008, 15:05
Sorry, but I do have some trouble with the HE star dwagon, since it seems to be mandatory to the HE army. If people aren't careful there'll be none of the critters left for 8th edition;)

All according to wthe well-laid plans of the Druchii!

Muahahaha! Soon the might of Ulthuan will be spent, then our Black Dragons will crush all before them!

*cough*

Dragon Prince of Caledor
06-05-2008, 19:57
Speaking of dark elves i am stoked about fighting them soon when they are redone. they are going to be sick:)

decker_cky
06-05-2008, 21:01
I'd say dragons are more effective. With a skilled player behind them, the dragon is nearly as good in VP denial. The tanks, however, really fizzle out with a little attention thrown at them. So you aren't going to get VP for them? Oh well, get them 3 wounds down and you can consider them not much more than terror causing terrain.