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SuperArchMegalon
02-05-2008, 00:47
Hey all, this came up last night in a friendly match.

A High-Elf prince charged out of his unit of Phoenix Guard on his horse towards a unit of Ogres. First we decided that he would have to take a fear test, since he was charging alone and not with his fear-causing unit. Sounded fair to me. However, after he failed his test (boxcars!) things got hairy.

My opponent said that even though his character could not move, the unit would still be able to. He wanted to move the unit forwards, and leave the character behind. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I said I thought it was wrong, because the unit is usually bound by a character's movement - and the character was unable to move any. The only analogy I could come up with was that if his character were to fail his stupidity test the unit would bumble forward with him and remain immobile for the turn. Also, the general premise of movement is that a unit has to move at the slowest movement rate of everyone in it. I also thought that characters had to have movement left to move in and out of units, not that units could abandon immobile characters.

Anyways, should the character have limited the movement of the Phoenix Guard, or was my opponent correct?

Extra credit:

1. If he had failed a TERROR test would he have fled, abandoning his unit?
2. Would his unit flee also, even though they were out of charging range?
3. Even if they cause fear?

In the end we diced off and he won, allowing him to move his unit forward basically through his character, who stood there like a chump.

theunwantedbeing
02-05-2008, 00:50
Unit moves at the speed of the slowest member.
So if part of the unit cant move, the unit cant move either.

If he fled from terror he would abandon his unit.

The unit would have no reason to flee as the unit did not fail the terror test did they?

If they cause fear then they would not take a terror test, only a fear test for fearing the terror causing unit, assuming they were in range or charging it. If they werent then no test and no chance of fleeing.

Although if the character was us5+ and he fled from within his unit then he would cause a panic test and that may cause the unit to flee, although the unit and the character would have seperated.

Atrahasis
02-05-2008, 00:52
The short answer to this is "God and Allessio know, and neither are reachable for comment".

It's been discussed from here to the ends of the internet as to whether (as in this case) a character in a unit immune to fear has to test, and what happens if he does have to test and fails.

Decide amongst yourselves.

Nainou
02-05-2008, 05:37
Small red book says: If a character is liable to terror or fear test that doesn't apply to the rest of the unit, he can ignore any tests.

I think that ^ one is saying that your noble does not roll any fear tests whilst being in a unit of phoenix guards (for example)

Grimgormx
02-05-2008, 06:13
IMHO

A character can charge from inside a unit, he should check fear, but if the unit is fearless so is the character at the moment he charges.

He doesnt has to check fear because all is fearless friends are encouraging him.....

SuperArchMegalon
02-05-2008, 07:44
Perhaps, but then again he is attempting to leave the unit and go by himself. I'm short on examples, but a Jaguar Saurus in a unit of Kroxigors would then be immune to fear when he charges. Corny? Also, a character who charges out of a unit that is ItP retains the benefit when he charges, using this logic. That doesn't make sense.

Regardless the real issue was the unit's movement afterwards. I guess it has been settled that there is no real answer as to whether a character who cannot move does not allow his unit to move - though I still think that the case of stupidity proves me correct.

Also, I'd like to throw out that even though the Phoenix Guard are immune to fear, that doesn't mean that their character's weakness does not affect them. Consider Maneaters with a stupid Ogre character in the unit - if he fails stupidity their movement is affected, even though they're ItP. To counter this, the above poster's referenced clause may be used to establish a difference between the two examples. I think that the intention of the clause was different, however, as it was talking about the character staying within the unit when he charges or is charged.

I guess we did the right thing to dice off O_o

EvC
02-05-2008, 10:32
The key to me, is that you have to pass a fear test to declare the charge. When you're declaring a charge, the character is part of the unit, and so is immune to fear. Once you've declared the charge, you leave the unit, but there is no need for a fear test at that point. As Nainou says, "If a character is liable to terror or fear test that doesn't apply to the rest of the unit, he can ignore any tests."

Plus, as you'll note... it means lots of these crazy "what if" scenarios can't happen any more.

Your examples are bad as well, as being ItP has no bearing whatsoever on stupidity.

SuperBeast
02-05-2008, 11:12
BRB Page 73..

"..a character may declare a separate charge of his own and therefore leaves the unit when he charges out of it."

Counts as part of the unit until he physically leaves it.

highelfmage
02-05-2008, 15:08
u test for fear/terror before you move. so the character would have not tested.

Kirth
03-05-2008, 01:30
Character wouldn't test at all in that case because he hasn't left the unit when charges are declared.

ehlijen
03-05-2008, 02:02
Either the not having had to test thing, or put him next to the unit before he tests as, if he is charging alone, he is a unit of his own, ie the seperation would have happened before the test. Whichever you and your friend like more (though I believe the first
one to be the correct way by RAW).

Either way, the unit would be able to move afterwards.

theunwantedbeing
03-05-2008, 02:09
If you fail a fear test you may not move.(if wishing to charge)
If part of a unit then the unit may not move that turn either, as the unit moves at the speed of the slowest member.

I'm all for taking the test as part of the unit and then moving out of the unit and losing any benefits that you got from being in the unit.
Immunity to fear for example.

In the OP's example it seems best that he doesnt need to take the test.
However if the enemy caused terror and he failed the test he would not be able to move (as fear causers fear terror causers) and neither would the unit.

Had he fled throuhg the unit, the unit would have been free to move as normal.
Had he charged out of the unit successfully they would also be able to move.