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jahorin
02-05-2008, 13:22
If you use unseen lurker on a unit screamers, will they be able to make slashing attack?

Thanks.

Gazak Blacktoof
02-05-2008, 17:46
Unseen Lurker says you move "in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase" so I'd guess that you could make slashing attacks unless there's something very specific about the wording for screamers that prevents it.

I would suggest (without having seen the exact wording for screamers) that the intent was for them to make a slashing attack whenever they move over an enemy unit and I don't see any reason for that not to apply to magical movement.

skank
03-05-2008, 10:21
No sorry, it says only in the remaining moves phase.

They are now cavalry now though so you can move them with wolf hunts or stop them with beast cowers etc.

Gazak Blacktoof
03-05-2008, 10:49
I guess it depends on peoples' interpretation of what move "in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase" means then.

Do you effectively go through a normal movement phase replicating each part of it as you would normally?

To me it seems that if they don't charge with unseen lurker then you're going to be moving in the same way as a normal move made in the remaining move phase which I think would entitle them to do anything they could normally do in the remaining moves phase.

The opposing view probably has just as much credibility though.

The move is only 8" so I don't think its going to make that much of a difference anyway.

skank
03-05-2008, 11:48
Eh, theres a big difference between a unit moving in the remaining moves phase and a unit being moved in the magic phase "in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase".

It's very clear, just 'remaining moves' phase.
I guess if it said "in the same way as a normal move made in the remaining move phase" that would be fine.

Gazak Blacktoof
03-05-2008, 12:11
As I said, I wouldn't have a problem with either interpretation. If somebody in our group starts using screamers we'll just come to an agreement one way or the other.

I had thought about getting a daemon army but I've gone off the idea so it doesn't bother me either way. Its such an unlikely event to ever pop up.

The Red Scourge
03-05-2008, 13:55
Eh, theres a big difference between a unit moving in the remaining moves phase and a unit being moved in the magic phase "in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase".

It's very clear, just 'remaining moves' phase.
I guess if it said "in the same way as a normal move made in the remaining move phase" that would be fine.

And "in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase" is extremely clear too. Its an extra move made in the magic phase, which abides by the rules of the movement phase :)

Masque
03-05-2008, 21:00
They are now cavalry now though so you can move them with wolf hunts or stop them with beast cowers etc.

I don't see anything about Screamers being cavalry.

skank
03-05-2008, 21:59
It says so, dispise not being on cav base, it's under the pic in the screamer unit description (the daemon book)

theunwantedbeing
03-05-2008, 22:07
Fairly sure that's about the disc not the screamer.

skank
04-05-2008, 20:58
Ah, come on fella's, give me a break...
I'm looking at the book right now.

They count as cav and do slashing attacks in the remaining moves phase.
If you want to belive "you effectively go through a normal movement phase replicating each part of it as you would normally" every time you cast a movement spell, fine.

Reinnon
04-05-2008, 21:10
unless i'm missing something i can't see any rule that says screamers are cavalry, and i'm staring at the rules right now.

only reference to cavalry is the disc, which states that its cavalry despite being mounted on a different base.

skank
04-05-2008, 22:30
Hmmm... strange. The armybook with the spearhead? (i've got the english language one)

Says so under the pic of the screamer, or i'm going mad:(.

Reinnon
04-05-2008, 22:44
i've got a copy from advance order, it only makes reference to discs being cav.

RedShirt
04-05-2008, 23:21
I've got the book from the fantasy spear head box (in english) and it's states "Note that a Disc is a cavalry mount...yada yada yada"
Just to help confirm that the Disc is calvary, not the screamers.

In my opinion on the wording of the rule is this, it states the "Remaining moves phase" so that if you were to charge a unit behind another that you could see (since fliers can fly over units during the charge move as long as they could see the unit behind) you don't get to make the hits against the unit you fly over then, but if you were to not charge and instead fly over that unit after charges have been moved (ie: the remaining moves phase) then you could count the hits.

So, if you are following the normal movement rules as per the spell, then if you don't use that movement to charge a unit (charge movement phase) but instead just move your normal movement (remaining movement phase) then you would be allowed to make the attacks against any units flown over.

But again that's how I read it anyways

jahorin
05-05-2008, 01:38
Another example of this is casting the movement the movement spell of the orcs and goblins on a fanatic, even if the fanatic moves in the compulsory phase of the movement phase, it can still be affected be the movement spell.

So I was thinking that I could use unseen lurker on a unit of screamers, but I wanted to check with the rest to see if there was a consensus.

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-05-2008, 07:04
So, if you are following the normal movement rules as per the spell, then if you don't use that movement to charge a unit (charge movement phase) but instead just move your normal movement (remaining movement phase) then you would be allowed to make the attacks against any units flown over.


But that's not what the Screamers rules says.
That Unseen Lurker moves them as a normal move is irrelevant in this case as the screamers ove rules clearly says it have to be in the remaining move phase. It doesn't say "movement" so it's not enough to just move over a unit, it have to be in the remaining move phase and if you are casting spells it's not in the remaining move phase. So you could move them, but they wouldn't to Slashing Attacks.

RedShirt
05-05-2008, 11:32
The spell says " Make a move in the same way as a normal move made in the movement phase. The unit can charge an enemy if the opportunity permits, and the same rules apply as for a normal charge made during the movement phase"

The movement phase is broken into 5 parts, declare charges, rally, compulsory moves, charge moves, remaining moves.

the spell says a normal move in the movement phase which would be all 5 of those parts.
The spell says can move, so it's not compulsory movement.
The spell states that if you use this movement to charge then follow the rules for a charge (which if we go by RAW means you would have to declare it, the person chose their reaction, then move the charging unit....which I know no one uses it that way)
So if you don't use this movement to charge then the only thing left is a remaining moves which is the part the movement phase that the attacks work in.

Of course when you break down the movement phase it also raises the question, can you use unseen lurker to get an extra attempt to Rally troops?

The biggest issue with all of this is what is considered to be a Normal move in the movement phase? Perhaps defining that would be better.

skank
05-05-2008, 12:33
Redshirt: What they mean by a normal move is a normal move for the unit, ie a flyer flys and infantry walk their movement rate.
It has nothing to do with getting a remaining moves phase in your magic phase for every movement spell you get off.

Heres a neat trick, flee a charge then in my magic phase rally with unseen lurker (because a movement phase has a rally sub-phase) ready to charge next turn... right?

Goruax
05-05-2008, 14:16
Then what is a normal move?
If you're allowed to charge and allowed to not, then what is this 'normal' move if not as if from the remaining moves phase?
There are only 3 'types' of movement:
- a charge (allowed by Unseen Lurker)
- compulsory (not allowed by Unseen Lurker, because it literally isn't compulsory)
- a 'normal'/remaining move (allowed by Unseen Lurker)

If they do not charge, they are effectively moving as if it is a remaining move.

SPYDER68
05-05-2008, 14:36
ive got the spearhead book also, and it does say.. "discs" not screamers are cavalry mounts.