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da big mek
04-05-2008, 20:32
im at a bit of a crossroads and im hoping the warseer community can help
i will going away to college soon and naturally space will be at premium
alas my current armies are both hordes:cries:
i have decided that this is the perfect oppurtunity for a frsh start

the question is what army should i start, it needs to be
1) compact (low model, easy to fit in one large case)
2) relatively competitive in 5th edition (not getting owned in every game)
3) offer alot of conversion oppurtunities

thanks in advance for all the advice

penguin663
04-05-2008, 20:34
Well you could do armoured company but unless you good with plasticard that limits conversions, I ssppose Nidzilla would be good small competative and its Nids so theres always conversion possibilities:D Hope this helps.

guillaume
04-05-2008, 20:34
the nidzilla list comes to mind, that's very compact and plenty to work with in terms of conversion.

I seem to recall an absolute awesome article in white dwarf on army building for nidzilla when the nids got their new codex in 2004/5.

starlight
04-05-2008, 20:42
Top four for low model count:

1) Nidzilla
2) Armoured Company
3) Grey Knights - especially with lots of GK Terminators
4) Ravenwing

Honourable mentions:

1) Chaos - can be very expensive per model if tooled properly
2) Deathwing - almost as expensive as Grey Knights
3) Suit heavy Tau

teh_soldier
04-05-2008, 21:16
Suit heavy Tau might suit you, I'm not sure how competitive they are, but you could model them after the FW style ones, which are immensely cool.

Templar Ben
04-05-2008, 21:42
Is price a concern?

Iron Father
04-05-2008, 23:52
Ork Deffwing.... tons of conversions needed for that one ;)

Archangel_Ruined
05-05-2008, 00:03
Simple marines. There's as much scope for conversion as you can imagine converting them to, the model count can be ludicrously low if you want it to be and it'll always be competitive. You could go all out and collect a white scars force using the index astartes rules (I know they're not approved for tournies but any gamer worth their salt should respect the list as legal in stores and clubs). You can do just about anything with marines, and if you're not too sure they're for you, try our latest flavour: Chaos marines. There's something for everyone in there, and ignore marine haters, a well thought out, nicely painted marine army is as valid as any other.

starlight
05-05-2008, 00:08
Straight Marines rate in the top ten, but certainly not the top five for low model count.:)

Firaxin
05-05-2008, 00:30
Not in the top five, no, but marines with all models upgraded to deathwatch would be higher than basic marines, at least.

Archangel_Ruined
05-05-2008, 00:35
You don't even have to do that. 3-6 dreads, troops as bikers, upgrades all over the shop. Marines can get expensive quick. I just think there's more scope and playability in a marine army than, say, nidzilla, which is a one trick pony you'll struggle to expand upon as you get bored with it. Marines offer more all round potential, and that should keep them interesting long after you, and more importantly, your regular gaming buddies get tired of "Oh, 7 montrous creatures?/Ah, 3 falcons again?/-insert generic, often abused low model count army here-?". GK's and deathwatch are nice, but less conversion potential.

starlight
05-05-2008, 00:41
Going to have to disagree with the lack of conversion potential. :p

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116482

Vaktathi
05-05-2008, 00:50
my 1850pt Tau Army with 6 tanks, 10 crisis suits, and 30 firewarriors fits in a shoebox, same with just about any Chaos build I've used recently. That's about as small as you will find.

Archangel_Ruined
05-05-2008, 00:53
Well, I say that from a codex viewpoint as well as my personal reverence to the GK models. I think they're so pretty messing with them should be punishable by thumb breaking if the result is judged to be a failure... I still maintain that a GK army is always going to be a GK army (same for deathwatch) whereas a marine army can be cc mutants, inquisition allied nutters, flamer wielding psychos or anything else you can think of short of pointy eared poetry lovers.

That said, I shall let this USABOB character keep his thumbs for now, they are some verr nice termies. Perhaps not as nice as the metal GK's, but there's far more variety in his route.

sabre4190
05-05-2008, 01:10
My friend has a Dark Angels army at 2000 points with 25 models (termies and bikes). The double-wing can get you some nice versatility and a fun list with very little. Still, the winner is nid-zilla. 8 big beasties and 6 little swarms. I dont think anything else can top that.

deathdealer
05-05-2008, 01:12
I havent read the new codex yet but the new daemon army looks like quite an elite little force, few normal size squads, few cavalry/termie base size mods, 2-3 monstrous creatures and a mutated defiler, plus i've heard the new rules are pretty nasty no matter what size points you play.

MINI0N
05-05-2008, 01:19
the new daemons provides lots of conversions. im curaintly converting 3 daemon princesses, 2 greater daemons, 4 fiends of slanesshe, and some other stuff. and i think for 1250, i have 5 large models, 4 medium models and 20 troop size models.

starlight
05-05-2008, 01:21
The thing is to start small, and if you build it too big, ship it home.:p

Despite the idea of *smallest model count*, Battleforces save you money (Battleforces from the Warstore save you even more), so remember that when you're buying. :)

Pink Horror
05-05-2008, 02:21
Chaos Thousand Sons:
200+ points for a tooled-out HQ.
23-point troops surrounding a champion who costs 70+.
Terminators that'll easily average 50+ each.
Bikers that average 40+ each.
Heavy Support Obliterators, or Havocs with big, expensive guns and the 40-point icon.
Land Raiders.
You don't have enough bullets to clear a horde off the table, but moving and firing makes you slightly mobile, and you could get lucky with all those invulnerable saves. In 5th edition, wound allocation might let small units save a few members by piling all the nastiest wounds on the same guy, and sometimes failing two saves on the model instead of losing two squad members.

Eldar with pathfinders, wraithguard, warlocks on bikes, dark reapers, and 200-point upgraded tanks? I like to think of every army as having conversion potential. Since so many of their models have no equipment options, you might as well give them all different-looking stuff. It can't trick someone with such a simple army list. I know most Eldar armies look the same. It doesn't mean they have to.

Orks can load up on battlewagons, nobs on bikes, deffkoptas, and HQs that rival MCs, but you're stuck with boyz as troops... I don't see a way out of that.

max the dog
05-05-2008, 02:48
Space can be saved if you're not too particular about how you pack your horde. I've got 200+ nids in an average sized toolbox. Everything is plastic with a decent coating of clearcoat so I don't have an issue with putting them into bins loose with little padding. The only figures I pack into individual foam trays are my monstrous creatures and conversions I'm proud of. The rest of the nid horde is is steerage.

guillaume
05-05-2008, 03:03
Even a termie heavy grey knight army doesnt even come close to the few model counts of the nidzilla army.

The nidlzilla counts 10 models. That's 2 hyve tyrant, 6 carniflex and 2 ripper swarms bases.

Now of course you can increase the count by taking a carniflex out and putting genestealers.

But if you want low model count and great conversion possibilities, look NOWHERE else but nidz.

No other army allows you the amount of conversion that the carniflex sprue gives you. Simple

Pink Horror
05-05-2008, 03:40
No other army allows you the amount of conversion that the carniflex sprue gives you. Simple

For some reason, all the current nid plastic stuff looks the same to me, and is it really a conversion if you're just gluing stuff on from the supplied sprue?

If you go that way, mix in some unexpected monster parts, maybe from D&D models (Ral Partha or WoTC) or maybe HorrorClix Alien. Hack 'em apart and give your MCs good posture. Maybe you could splice the WHFB gigantic spider into a fex?

Sure, you could have an elite group of models that each count as 10 models in close combat. I think it's more interesting, though, to have a compact force that, overall, counts as being much smaller than those nids in a melee. A fancy tyrant conversion might be a tough thing to put in a carrying case, too.

Playing giant bugs or over-costed infantry is mostly just a matter of taste, right? Either army won't take up a lot of room.

Feor
05-05-2008, 03:50
Dredd mob.

Considering your handle, you've probably got a good idea of what that is. I got 5 models in 500 points (without going for 2 Shokk Guns)

Alternatly, Armoured Kompany. 6 Nobs, 2 warbosses, add Battlewagons, buggies, and looted wagons up to desired points value. For conversion possibilities ,I present you two words: Looted Hammerhead. :)

BrianC
05-05-2008, 05:19
I think 'Nidzilla is going to be the best choice, as its going to be more competative and easier to convert, plus its less models.

However with a 16 strong GK force you can get over 1100 points. Add in another 5 termies and a dreadnought and you have 1600 points, for 21 models, 2 more dreads and you have 2000 points for 23 models or LRs instead and you'd have well over that...

GK armies are also one of the cheapest to buy due to the low model count, my 16 strong army with a codex for 60, less from ebay. I've a feeling that a GK army would require less storage space as well.

Dranthar
05-05-2008, 11:08
I think a major factor here should not just be the model count, but the size of the models too. A Nidzilla army would be a pain to cart around thanks to all those bulky tyrants/carnifexes, especially when you have to deal with a multitude of pointy talons/tails.

If I wanted an army that took up a minimum of space I'd go for;

1. Few/no vehicles. With exceptions (particularly the marine ones), vehicles generally take up alot of space in whatever you use to carry the models. Taking infantry over vehicles thus makes it easier to pack efficiently.

2. Plastic models. As a general rule of thumb plastics don't break or chip as easilly as metals. Throw on a few coats of matt varnish and you feasibly have an army that you can store in a shoe box with minimal padding.


To me, the obvious choice is some brand of marines, or possibly necrons.

Honestly though, any all-plastic infantry army, with conversions reinforced through pinning and a few coats of matt varnish, can fit into a very tight space. Just as an example, I once took an entire 2000pt Vampire Counts army in a box the size of an A4 sheet of paper and around 1" thick. :D

centy
05-05-2008, 14:40
My 1500pt marine army has a whirlwind 2 landspeeders and 38 marines.
A few up grades and some traits and now i have legion of the damned.
Yes skulls and flames are cool, no need for conversions except for the magnetised weapons i have put on the command.
This all fits nicely into the cheap and small roller suit case i brought, carry on luggage size and has enough room for a change of clothes if i roll them tight.
My main concern was fitting the models securely before cloths so i think i have done well.

Redrivertears
05-05-2008, 15:11
I'm surprised at some of these suggestions. People must be stacking their models very differently from me :)

I find that the most compact armies are INFANTRY armies. Anything with regular shaped models. For me, its always the vehicles that take up the most space, especially if those vehicles aren't rectangular (ie dark eldar raiders, chaos defilers, tau skimmers, eldar falcons, etc etc). I can easily stack 30 infantry models in the space it takes me to carry three rhinos.

So my advice would be to look into small elite infantry armies, with as few transports as possible.

Just my 2 cents though,

-Redrivertears-

505
05-05-2008, 17:01
well I run spacemafrine bikes with 30 models but I would imagine a Eldar all mounted would be small count too

fwacho
05-05-2008, 19:44
Small army quick paint... scoring units
Raven wing. I still have space left over in my foam tray bag. (18 scoring units!)
Battle suit Tau with 36+ fire warriors
Blood angels get a lot of points quickly and can be based red.
Necrons can be painted and and then final coated before being thrown in a toolbox.

da big mek
05-05-2008, 21:17
thanks for the advice guys
to clearify i need to little to no vehicles and at this size every model would probably be converted
money is not an issue right now
i was thinking death guard, but its 40 models with 5 vehicles
keep the ideas coming

Archangel_Ruined
05-05-2008, 22:04
I've been considering a death guard army. 2 or 3 squads of plague marines with rhinos, a winged daemon prince and a big bike squad or 2 with the mark of nurgle. Low model count, very durable, fantastic conversion potential (not strictly conversions, but how pretty are the new FW plague marines?) and competitive without being a commonly hated and abused army build. That and toughness 6 bikers, oh yes...

guillaume
06-05-2008, 00:06
I have to say that after looking around, a GK army could give you very few models, all of which are very pretty.

They may not offer you that much room for conversion since they are all metal, but certainly 3 units of 5 GK SM, 1 unit of 5 termies, 1 bad a** dreadnought, a sprinkle of inquisitor retinue, an insane assassin and to top it all an orbital strike, for roughly 25-28 models.

No vehicle, so it should carry pretty easy.

starlight
06-05-2008, 00:12
Since you can also designate 0-3 of your PAGK units as DSing if you wish by moving them to FA, you get additional potential mobility for zero cost. :)

ReveredChaplainDrake
06-05-2008, 00:34
Space can be saved if you're not too particular about how you pack your horde. I've got 200+ nids in an average sized toolbox. Everything is plastic with a decent coating of clearcoat so I don't have an issue with putting them into bins loose with little padding. The only figures I pack into individual foam trays are my monstrous creatures and conversions I'm proud of. The rest of the nid horde is is steerage.

That sounds just crazy. So crazy... that... it just... might work... (*steals idea*) But does this really work on Hormagaunts? Or do you just not use any?

I already do this to my Lizardmen, and I'm rather astonished at the fact that not one of my Terradons nor my "Darth Maul" Oldblood has broken yet. For some strange reason, GW foam breaks more models than it preserves, unless of course, you play MEQs.

starlight
06-05-2008, 00:41
:eek: You've uncovered their secret! Run lad! Run! :eek:

anarnii
06-05-2008, 00:46
i say death guard, small model could and almost unparalleled in terms of conversions

max the dog
06-05-2008, 00:54
That sounds just crazy. So crazy... that... it just... might work... (*steals idea*) But does this really work on Hormagaunts? Or do you just not use any?


It won't work with metal figures, just the plastic ones. Metal is too heavy and the ones in the bottom just get crushed. Plastic on the other hand is so light that they won't damage each other.
The only real problem with packing hormagaunts like this is that they hold onto their base with just their toes. It doesn't take much to break them off it. Termagaunts and spinegaunts are pretty solid to their base once glued properly. I've gotten into the habit of always bringing glue and glue accelerator with me just in case another hormi wants to break free and make a run for it.

This idea was borne out of pure laziness. I tried carefully packing them away into individual compartments but it took too darn long when you run a horde army. One day I was impatient and packed them away in one massive pile and they came out just fine.

da big mek
06-05-2008, 01:15
ive got a friend who magnetizes the bases then sticks them unto the inside of a metal tool box
not as space efficient but more organized

Tigerguy
06-05-2008, 01:30
Stay away from Nidzilla. They will not be nearly as competitive once 5th edition comes out if the rumors hold up.

I would go with Doublewing. Deathwing and Ravenwing combo. Or even just Deathwing. Check out the Deathwing tactica here on Warseer to learn the Deathwing mantra and see how effective they can be.

Xardian
06-05-2008, 01:38
We had a player at my LGS that had, quite literrally, a Bucket-O-Guard. 200+ guardsmen army at 2k points, all just tossed in a bucket. When he got tired of normal deployment, he'd just tip the bucket and pour out a river of guard on his table edge and say, "Ok, I'm deployed" :D

For a lot of conversion potential and a low model count but still effective I'd have to reccommend some flavor of Chaos marines over Nidzilla. Especially if you go cult-heavy on the troops. The conversion opportunities are everywhere, and it has a lot of great units that don't require vehicles like Obliterators, Havocs, Raptors and even simple chaos marine hordes. And it stays an expandable army with a lot of options to grow and change to keep things fresh, which is the major drawback to a nidzilla list.

Nidzilla is also a very bulky army to play since the MCs take a lot of space. It's equivalent to an army with 8 tanks for space used. But it is quick to build and paint and very competitive.

Any marine army would work ok though. And you since most marine minis are plastic you can easily make an effective marine "horde" and carry it in a case the size of a shoebox. Start em with a lot of upgrades and the like then trim the fat and add models as you like to grow your new army. Chaos can easily field 100+ chaos marines with upgrades and a solid commander in a 2000 point game. I suspect other flavors of space-bob can do similar.

Necrons are another good option, but you do typically wind up wanting a Monolith or two which is very bulky.

Ork elite armies are possible as well (I myself am building a 25 model 2000 point ork army) but they won't generally be as consistently competitive as the more all-rounder marines, necrons, and nidzilla.

Feor
06-05-2008, 01:48
thanks for the advice guys
to clearify i need to little to no vehicles and at this size every model would probably be converted
money is not an issue right now
i was thinking death guard, but its 40 models with 5 vehicles
keep the ideas coming

See, no Vehicles leads to a whole other challenge. Your best bet at that point is probably Deathwing or Deffwing.

Deathwing, 270/squad (fully tooled out) + Belial, that gets you 16 models in 1000 points, or 25 in 1500

Deffwing, you'd probaly go Gazghkull, warboss, + 29 meganobs. Getting you 31 models in 1500 points (depending on wargear). Plus, a tacklebox of Orks bitz + Plastic Termis makes for some interesting Konveshun opportunities....

da big mek
06-05-2008, 03:00
from all the advice in thinking im gonna stick to chaos
lots of room for future expansion when i get my own place
now the question becomes what flavor ?
death guard will be a conversion dream, but the list ive got requires at least four rhinos in order to stay mobile.

sugested list builds for dg or any flavor would be appreciated !

starlight
06-05-2008, 03:12
Two units of Rhinos, the rest are Terminators. :evilgrin:

At least thats the way I'm doing it. :D

Dranthar
06-05-2008, 03:15
from all the advice in thinking im gonna stick to chaos
lots of room for future expansion when i get my own place
now the question becomes what flavor ?
death guard will be a conversion dream, but the list ive got requires at least four rhinos in order to stay mobile.

sugested list builds for dg or any flavor would be appreciated !

Well you could forego the rhinos in exchange for all-infantry, possibly backed up with obliterators (nurgle themed, naturally) for support. Throw in a few bikes for a fast element and you'll probably have an alright army.

Personally I have plans for a bike mounted lord which can summon a few units of daemons - that alone can provide some very decent mobility without resorting to rhinos.

Failing that, teleporting terminators could also work.

Slaneesh might be another option. I only say this because with their sonic blasters they look as though they could function quite well at range.

In any case, rhinos are pretty compact for a vehicle, especially if you can forego all those spikes. Vindicators are another good vehicle choice for the same reason.

Xardian
06-05-2008, 03:45
Good alternatives to Rhinos for mobile army elements:

Raptors. Lots of neat conversion options with these. Personally I'm using the plastic marines and adding wings (got some 4-packs of metal daemon wings from Reaper minis through the warstore). No need to stick to the wobbly metals GW produces for this unit. And it's a really good mobile hard-hitter. Most folks preffer these over bikes, but it's not an overwhelming majority.

Bikes: Tougher individually then raptors, and thier rides look pretty sweet. Higher points too so less of them, but the models are more complex so it's a wash in time / space over raptors to me.

Summoned Lesser Daemons: Infinite conversion options there. And actually not too shabby on the table top either, especially when paired with a rapid-delivery unit like bikes, raptors, or mounted / winged lords. They make excellent CC support units even in small numbers.

Termies: Deepstrike is a wonderful thing, and Chaos Termies are very good for thier points.

Chosen: Infiltration is another handy option, and works well with an icon for summons and teleports. As a bonus, you can use normal chaos marine models to represent them so no big deal to change up your list to try em out or swap in more normal joes.

Obliterators: More mobile then havocs while footslogging, and can teleport in as a rock-solid unit for large objective areas like Recon and Cleanse.

And, come 5th, those basic Plague Marines will be able to Run, so mobility won't be as big of an issue anyway.

Also, if you pick up a rhino or two, get predator or vindicator models instead and magnetize the doors / hatches. Suddenly you can swap your vehicles around to whatever your current list desire requires.

starlight
06-05-2008, 04:11
*Always* magnetise your vehicles if you can. :D

The Phazer
06-05-2008, 18:32
You can get a pretty small Blood Angels army if it's made up entirely of Honour Guard with their optional combi weapons and Assault Marines as your troops choices.

Phazer

Dranthar
07-05-2008, 03:54
You can get a pretty small Blood Angels army if it's made up entirely of Honour Guard with their optional combi weapons and Assault Marines as your troops choices.

Phazer

Yes, but how many games are you going to win with it? :D