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minionboy
05-05-2008, 17:33
Pretty simple. I can't decide between spears and no spears. So what do the other VC players out there use?

stampy
05-05-2008, 17:35
Put it this way, you get 5 additional attacks from havign spears. On average you should hit with 2.5 so round that to 3. Then wound on 4 so again 2 wounds at best. Then opponents have armour saves. Its really not worth it. Much better to increase your armour and minimise your losses to prevent further crumbling from combat resolution

theunwantedbeing
05-05-2008, 17:37
If you have the crown of command (or whatever its called) on a vamp nearby....use spears.
If not, dont use spears.

Maslada
05-05-2008, 17:38
I personally don't use spears, my blocks are for holding and taking as little damage as possible so I'd rather save the points. However, spears are no longer an awful choice due to the lower cost of the skeletons but I think you need to keep them supported by the helm of commandant or a corpse cart casting ASF spell. With either (or both) of these augments you will find that skeletons will actually beat most other T3 4+ AS infantry when they have spears. For only 1 point it does seem like a sound investment if you have that support. My army, however, does not use such support so I'd rather save the 1 point per model.

EDIT: ahh beaten... :(

the12thronin
05-05-2008, 17:42
If you have the points left over, take them cause you still have the option to fight Hand Weapon/Shield. Gives them a little more flexibility and options. Spears are also handy in there so when you get hit by heavy cav that can wipe the front rank, you can still get some strikes back. If you can manage to knock off a knight, you've just reduced the amount of crumble you'll take.

athamas
05-05-2008, 18:44
spears also work really well if the staff of damnation is around...

10 attacks in the magic phase can be enough to remove that critical model to make your opponant lose a rank or out number...


very very usefull!

mav1971
05-05-2008, 19:36
I take one unit with spears and one without spears.

minionboy
05-05-2008, 20:08
Wow, that was a shocking turn of events! It went from 3-7 to 10-7! :O

That only leads to making me more confused... :(

I would likely do one spears and one no spears, but since I play a summoning heavy army, it'd be a pain in the wallet to build extras for both. I don't tend to use the Helm of Commandment, but I do use a couple Corspe Carts.

Milney
05-05-2008, 20:16
I use both!

I have a large block of Hand Weapon/Shield skeletons deployed 6 wide alongside my Shield equipped Grave Guard, and then have a small unit of ~14 skeletons with spears (7x2) lurking near the side. My large durable units pin units in place then the skeletons with spears are magically propelled into the enemy's flank.


Combined with the staff of damnation it racks up quite a few (albiet weak) hits on the enemy whilst denying them ranks.

And before you say "Ghouls do it better", arguably yes (and I have 2 units of Ghouls for flanking aswell) but the advantage of the skeletons is that in a "Lord of the Dead" (skeleton focussed list) a few invocations can make them into a somewhat decent fighting unit (still able to use Hweapon/Shield).

Latro
05-05-2008, 20:17
... you play a summoning heavy army and you're not using the Helm of Commandment?


:eyebrows:

Spirit
05-05-2008, 20:19
As to building extra for both, you only need > 50% of your models armed with spears for the unit to be legal. So if you have made 20 spears, you can "add" 19 with assorted weapons (i have some really strange summoning models lol) and people cant complain.

If they ever do, i just remind them of the most important rule lol, if they still complain, they arent worth playing...

GrogsnotPowwabomba
06-05-2008, 03:28
Undead Core is meant to be as cheap and survivable as possible. I don't think spears are generally worth it.

soulstealer666
06-05-2008, 03:43
personaly i dont use spears but that because i haent changed my models from last edtion and im not going to any time soon.

but now that skelletons with spears are cheap(er) it make them a viable choice with the helm and ASF from the cart, V.danse ect. you see my point

them they can swing the combat in your favor if they are a flanker :D lol

cheers

soulstealer

Nurgling Chieftain
06-05-2008, 06:35
That depends on whether spears are 1 point per model as they almost certainly intended or 1 point for the whole unit as the entry actually reads. :p

Admiral Samuel Eden
06-05-2008, 07:48
If you are a summoning heavy army and you don't use the helm then thats odd.
If you don't use the helm then don't bother with spears. Those points on a unit of twenty can get some extra skeletons or zombies and I wouldn't want to miss out on them.
If your willing to use the helm and the rod of commandment then its really worth it. Though of course it depends on who your playing as well, if you enemy infantry has damnable heavy armor like Dwarves then don't bother. If its elves then bring on those spears because you will kill a couple of them and they are expensive.

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
06-05-2008, 14:20
Okay. The poll is very close. SO close I can't decide whether i should equip spears or not. I'm getting 20 skeletons this weekend, and have 20 with hw/shield already. Would it be wise to model the new 20 with spears? Or give 10 spears and rez the rest during the game (rezzed models looking like hw/shield)?

EvC
06-05-2008, 14:32
Spears are more of a situational upgrade. If you are using the Helm of Command and/ or Staff of Damnation, then they could be a good idea. Otherwise, it's not a great use of points, but they'll survive.

However, the new Skeletons with spears look really great, so maybe just go for it. I just bought a box and am hoping I earn at least 90 gold in my campaign this week so I can afford to buy an additional unit of 10 Skeletons with spears, just cos they look cool (Being able to add more with Lord of the Dead helps :) ).

Keller
06-05-2008, 19:07
Personally, I have mixed feelings on spears. I generally run one unit with, one without, and match them up against the opponent's units as best as possible. Sometimes the spears are a waste, other times they save my rotten backside.

Variety is the spice of (un)life.

brettmarc
06-05-2008, 19:07
spears can be handy

Lordmonkey
06-05-2008, 22:56
Strategically, no spears. Hand weapons & shields at least provide a reliably mediocre static CR that you can plan around, whereas spears add risk to the equation. On the other hand, a unit with spears still has hand weapons AFAIK, so it becomes a more tactically flexible unit that can choose either. If you plan to summon a lot of skeletons, then build your spear units small (10-15) and summon more, to save points.