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x-esiv-4c
07-05-2008, 11:12
So as I take it, it requires bucket loads of psykers to under go a "soul binding" process to keep the big-cheese alive.
Was it always like this? When the emperor was dying by Rogal Dorn, did he tell him to build a fancy chair with neat cup holders that is fuelled by the tormented screams of a thousand psykers getting their eyes poked out?

Perhaps his continually degrading state required it at a later time?

Caelnaethon
07-05-2008, 11:32
The Soul Binding and the feeding of psykers to the Emperor are two different things. For reasons that have never really been explained, the Golden Throne requires a lot of psychic energy to sustain whatever form of existence the Emperor has left. There's a fairly grim piece in one of the rulebooks (Third edition, I think) about how the Dark Age technology from which the throne is made more or less "eats" the sacrificial psykers, body and soul.

Whether the Emperor intended this really isn't known. There seem to be a few different stories on how, why and when the Golden Throne was built. Of course, this being 40k, it's entirely possible that the sacrifices aren't even necessary - just a superstitious practice that the Inquisition is too afraid to stop in case it really is needed.

The Soul Binding is the process that turns a normal human psyker into an Astropath - a process that seems to boil down to simply attaching them to the Throne and filling them up with spare psychic energy. For an already powerful human psyker, this makes them capable of the superhuman feat of interstellar communication (putting them on the same level as Eldar seers, Orks and Genestealers) - the basic qualification to be an Astropath. I think I've read somewhere that Grey Knights undergo the same process to "awaken" their psychic abilities, although it doesn't seem to do as much physical damage to them.

pookie
07-05-2008, 11:33
So as I take it, it requires bucket loads of psykers to under go a "soul binding" process to keep the big-cheese alive.
Was it always like this? When the emperor was dying by Rogal Dorn, did he tell him to build a fancy chair with neat cup holders that is fuelled by the tormented screams of a thousand psykers getting their eyes poked out?

Perhaps his continually degrading state required it at a later time?

no the throne exhisted prior to the Emp being placed in/on it and he told Dorn what changes to make to sustain his life/aura r how ever you look at it.

The throne did have a use prior but im a little hazzy on this so wont say much, other than the Emp was trying to find a way into the Webway and the Throne relates to this.

x-esiv-4c
07-05-2008, 11:34
- just a superstitious practice that the Inquisition is too afraid to stop in case it really is needed.

How very grim indeed...

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
07-05-2008, 11:45
How very grim indeed...

Also, they put skulls on it. And painted it black. WOOOoooOOOO!!

*wiggles fingers all spooky-like*

darth mortis
07-05-2008, 12:18
i thougth the golden throne was a gateway into the webway and the emperor wanted to colonise the webway so the imperium in general didnt have to use the warp. though i know the emp is on there blocking all the demons that came through when magnus sent his sorcerous message to the emp to warn him about hours it broke a barrier down in the web way and the deamons came pouring through so now rather then an opening the emp keeps it closed off with his psycic powers or something along them lines its all in the collected visions books but i cant remember which one???

Caelnaethon
07-05-2008, 12:50
I'm not familiar with those books, but the Index Astartes story of Magnus' message to the Emperor doesn't mention anything about daemons or the Webway - just that Magnus "sent a psychic message" to the Emperor that "inadvertently revealed the true extent of the practices of the Thousand Sons." I don't think sending a bunch of daemons to invade Earth would count as "inadvertent." :p The Emperor ordered the destruction of Prospero because the Thousand Sons had been using sorcery to divine the future, not because they sent a message about it.

I've never read anything about the Golden Throne being a gateway into the Webway - I'm guessing it wasn't built by the Eldar?

pookie
07-05-2008, 13:05
I'm not familiar with those books, but the Index Astartes story of Magnus' message to the Emperor doesn't mention anything about daemons or the Webway - just that Magnus "sent a psychic message" to the Emperor that "inadvertently revealed the true extent of the practices of the Thousand Sons." I don't think sending a bunch of daemons to invade Earth would count as "inadvertent." :p The Emperor ordered the destruction of Prospero because the Thousand Sons had been using sorcery to divine the future, not because they sent a message about it.

Its a relativly new addition to the Fluff, as per the Visions of heresy Books BL produced (iirc), when Magnus sent his message its supposed to have damaged the Psycic barrier around the Palace, this then allowed Daemons to attack via this Web way portal that the Emp was working on, although if that was the case, the Webway would have already have been breached for the Dameons to attack, or on reflection, maybe Magnus powers were so strong that he also did this?


I've never read anything about the Golden Throne being a gateway into the Webway - I'm guessing it wasn't built by the Eldar?

no, deff the Emperor. (or do you mean the Webway?) which was built by the Eldar.

Aranel
07-05-2008, 13:09
Magnus' spell shattered the wards around the emperors palace, allowing the deamons to somehow assualt through the webway. He then had to sit on his throne day and night in an attempt to keep the wards going (generally failing miserably).

pookie
07-05-2008, 13:15
Magnus' spell shattered the wards around the emperors palace, allowing the deamons to somehow assualt through the webway. He then had to sit on his throne day and night in an attempt to keep the wards going (generally failing miserably).

id say he's done a fairly good job imo.

also when the Emp left terra to attack Horus he left Malcador to sit in his place, this ended up Killling malcador as he wasnt sufficently gifted to survive the use of the Golden Throne, even tho he was the second (known) powerful Psyker in the Imperium at that time.

downundercadet07
07-05-2008, 16:16
He's more machine than man, now.

I think the new fluff of demons shivving the emperor through a hole in the webway is freaking retarded-- if the emperor is really a huge warp entity like is said. I mean, the chaos gods don't have actual battles were they throw demons at each other in the warp, it is way more abstract than that.

Plus-- the idea of demons attacking the emperor through the webway doesn't work because it just isn't that dangerous. Surely after that had happened, and the primarchs realized what was going on, one of the more reasonable ones would have called up an Eldar and said "Hey, our dad accidentally opened a portal to hell on Earth, can you guys come and close it? We won't attack any craftworlds that leave us alone if you do."

That is if it even got that far. More likely the wards would have shattered, the demons would have started shoaling, and then all the psychic primarchs would have gotten a phone call telling them to get back to earth, ASAP. Then, the emperor and four or five of the most powerful psykers who have ever existed mind-punk the demons, shut the gate, have a beer, and decide that secularizing the universe is working well enough for now. I imagine Magnus would be buying said beer.

Sorry to divert, but that fluff always seemed ridiculously plotted to me.

I also am a subscriber to the theory that the machine eats the souls, but that the process of the sacrifice is totally unnecessary and only performed because the machine has developed an evil conscience, like Blaine the Mono, maybe.

darth mortis
07-05-2008, 16:39
aranel is right in that the spell shattered the wards around the emps palace and the ones in the webway. i aint too sure on how the webway works but it is supposed to either harm or stop deamons from coming into it but then if there are deamons coming into the webway there what is stopping them from going further into the webway and even maybe to a craftworld ( sorry if this is going off topic ). but it would of been sorted out if the emp got some of his sons to go throught he webway and help guard it while it was been repaired and ( again off topic ) why couldnt the emp just call a truce on the eldar and then get there help in maintaining it and would have the ultimate ally in imo to battle choas.

The_Outsider
07-05-2008, 16:44
The webway wasn't built by the eldar - they are the only race that use it because the only other 2 races that existed around the tiem it was getting its proper use (aka by the Old Ones) were the Krork and the Necrontyr.

The Emperor was attampting to (basically) hack into the webway - entirely removing the need for warp travel and being one step closer to achieve the Imperial Truth.

downundercadet07
07-05-2008, 16:50
Sweet holy family of the Christ child, darth mortis, write as if you aren't posting on a cave-wall with your mammoth hide brush.

The Eldar did build much of the webway-- they just didn't invent the technology to do so. They understood it though, and used it to expand the webway. It is arguable whether or not the Eldar still have the ability to expand it or not, I can remember vaguely that they do from some sources, but most insinuate or state that they do not. However, the Eldar ability to close parts of the webway, to shut gates or amputate whole sections of it, are well known.

Rockerfella
07-05-2008, 16:52
It was created by the old ones, but perfected by the Eldar.

I'm guessing there was an old misued warp gate on Terra, under the Emperors ****. He found it and was working out how to open it. There may have been all kinda of crazy wards and magiks at use. He may have been trying to 'crack the safe' as it were.

Then of course, he'd have to figure out how to circumnavigate its vast myriad of tunnels etc.

I'm guessing this is what kept him away from the crusade!

ryng_sting
07-05-2008, 17:20
So as I take it, it requires bucket loads of psykers to under go a "soul binding" process to keep the big-cheese alive.
Was it always like this? When the emperor was dying by Rogal Dorn, did he tell him to build a fancy chair with neat cup holders that is fuelled by the tormented screams of a thousand psykers getting their eyes poked out?

Perhaps his continually degrading state required it at a later time?

The Golden Throne was built to be the centre of the Emperor's plan to invade the Webway. From it led a small, human-built tunnel leading to an abandoned section of the Webway. The protective wards around the human-built tunnel were generated by the Emperor himself: no lean achievement, considering he was still personally fuelling and directing the Astronomican at this time.

After Magnus the Red's sorcerous message shorted out the wards the Emperor had placed on the tunnell, daemons began infesting it, threatening to spill into the Imperial Palace. The effort of thwarting them became so demanding , the Emperor eventually ordered the use of sacrificial psykers to fuel it instead. But he would still direct the beam through its connection to the Golden Throne. Once he had defeated Horus, the Emperor ordered Rogal Dorn to reconnect him to the Golden Throne.

Damage,Inc.
07-05-2008, 17:27
"Terrance, did you fart?"
"Why no Philip, I didn't."
"Then what is that smell Terrance?"
"Oh look, Philip, demons are crawling out of the toilet."
"Maybe it was they that farted, Terrance"
"Lolz!!1!"

Yeah, I agree that this is an area of the fullf that just seemed tacked together as though someone originally came up with part of a grat idea and then everyone that passed by had to add a little more to it too, kind of like kids playing the telephone game.

I imagine the Emperor's soul is sulking somewhere in the warp thinking, "Dammit, I should have been more specific with Dorn. I didn't say nap and need psykers, I said crap and toilet paper, what else would I be using the Golden Throne for??"

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
08-05-2008, 01:04
"
"Oh look, Philip, demons are crawling out of the toilet."
"Maybe it was they that farted, Terrance"


That...just became a classic moment. Sigged for teh funnayah.

Duke of Earl
08-05-2008, 01:59
Yeah, I agree that this is an area of the fullf that just seemed tacked together as though someone originally came up with part of a grat idea and then everyone that passed by had to add a little more to it too, kind of like kids playing the telephone game.

This is exactly the problem with ALL fictional universes that allow multiple authors to play around in them. They always turn to crap eventually, collapsing under the weight of poorly-thought-out plots hodgepodged onto the original substrate of compelling material. :(

Templar Ben
08-05-2008, 03:03
Also, they put skulls on it. And painted it black. WOOOoooOOOO!!

*wiggles fingers all spooky-like*

That is so Gothic.


He's more machine than man, now.

Twisted and evil.


Sorry to divert, but that fluff always seemed ridiculously plotted to me.

Unlike all of that high quality fluff that exists in 40K. ;)


I also am a subscriber to the theory that the machine eats the souls, but that the process of the sacrifice is totally unnecessary and only performed because the machine has developed an evil conscience, like Blaine the Mono, maybe.

98% of what the Imp of Man does is totally unnecessary so I would agree.

PotatoLegs
08-05-2008, 03:40
So have none of you read the opening passages of the Inquisitor Rulebook?

The story that has a few Imperial agents/inquisitors/high lords discussing about whether they should actually fully revive the Emperor, but instead decide it better to keep him in a half-life on the Golden Throne?

Imperialis_Dominatus
08-05-2008, 04:07
I've heard of that bit before, actually. Basically the High Lords want to keep their power, and the Emperor's return would undoubtedly cause a civil war.

So when he does die and is reborn... the Imperium is in for a cleansing. :evilgrin:

HK-47
08-05-2008, 05:43
So have none of you read the opening passages of the Inquisitor Rulebook?

The story that has a few Imperial agents/inquisitors/high lords discussing about whether they should actually fully revive the Emperor, but instead decide it better to keep him in a half-life on the Golden Throne?

Yeah, I have heard that bit of fluff a couple of time, but have never actually read it. IMO the high lords decide not to bring him back because they want to maintain the status quo of them being the top dogs of the Imperium.


I think the new fluff of demons shivving the emperor through a hole in the webway is freaking retarded-- if the emperor is really a huge warp entity like is said. I mean, the chaos gods don't have actual battles were they throw demons at each other in the warp, it is way more abstract than that.

Couldn't have put it better myself though I personally think that at this point the Emperor is more warp entity then human now so maybe the daemons can't really hurt him now. :confused:

Also while where do people believe that the Big E. knows what going one around him; and how does he feels about the things that are going on in his name.


"Terrance, did you fart?"
"Why no Philip, I didn't."
"Then what is that smell Terrance?"
"Oh look, Philip, demons are crawling out of the toilet."
"Maybe it was they that farted, Terrance"
"Lolz!!1!"

Wow that is one of the best 40k jokes I have ever read.

Caelnaethon
08-05-2008, 15:34
Unlike all of that high quality fluff that exists in 40K. ;)


This is exactly the problem with ALL fictional universes that allow multiple authors to play around in them. They always turn to crap eventually, collapsing under the weight of poorly-thought-out plots hodgepodged onto the original substrate of compelling material. :(
Hey, no-one made you come into the 40k background forum. ;)

Seriously, though, the 40k background is highly resistant to this stuff. You can freely disregard any detail of it that conflicts with the version of the story you prefer. A newer account isn't necessarily more true. "Daemons bursting out of the webway" as the reason the Emperor condemned Magnus directly contradicts the Index Astartes story, and I know which one works for me.

Emperor's Grace
08-05-2008, 17:36
Actually, I thought I remembered the psyker sacrifice powering the Astronomicon after his interment. (as most of his power went sleepy-bye in the warp or ... more modernly... used battling demon incursions)

Kyrios
08-05-2008, 22:00
The pro with a bundled together fluff is that its lika a buffé. You can pick the things you like on your own dish. Just because many people take the olives doesnt force you to. It is nice with shared views though

Xisor
09-05-2008, 00:07
For those who haven't read the opening 'short' of the Inquisitor rulebook (excluding the EYHBTIAL part):


A single candle guttered on an ornate silver
stick in the centre of the room, throwing a
yellowish, fitful light over the faces of the
cowled figures stood in the dusty chamber.

“The Golden Throne works,” one said, his
voice aged and cracked. “The Emperor’s life
can be sustained indefinitely.”

“His soul lives on?” another inquired, his
long, sharp nose protruding from under the
lip of his hood. “It is not an empty husk?”

“It is not,” the first confirmed. “The
Emperor has ascended to the next plane,
but the link ’twixt body and spirit remains
strong.”

“Then it can be brought back,” suggested
the third, a young woman whose flowing
white hair spilled from her hood and down
to her waist. “The Emperor need not suffer
this hideous eternal life in death.”

“We cannot risk such a thing!” the first
hissed. “What if the spiritual link were
severed? What if the person brought back
was not the man we once knew? Changed?
News of the Emperor’s… ascension is
already widespread. He is being revered as
a god already on a hundred worlds. In this
time of rebuilding, we need a symbol. The
Emperor has shown us the way. Anyway,
who would believe the Emperor had
returned so soon? It will cause a civil war
more devastating than that of the fool
Horus, and even now we have yet to start
counting the cost of that. No, better that
this knowledge remains hidden. When we
pass on to join the Emperor, it will die with
us.”

“You cannot deny Mankind the Emperor,” a
fourth voice, deep and slow, stated firmly.
“He and the empire he has built are
Mankind’s only chance of survival.”

The woman and the deep-voiced man both
withdrew into the shadows and a moment
later the door creaked open, a chill draught
causing the candle flame to flit wildly.

“Moriana, Promeus, wait!” the first man
called out, but the door slammed shut in
answer.

“We cannot let them do this,” the hawknosed
man decided.

“No, we cannot,” the first agreed. “We must
act quickly, get organised and claim the
initiative.”

“It shall be done,” the other concurred.

Though details have been added (and presumably changed) to the story of the Golden Throne over the years, if we assume that this follows on from Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, then it is quite possible that Rogal Dorn had a room built around the throne too, y'know, to shield the people looking after the Emperor from the daemons trying to break into the palace.

Once 'the four' are at this stage, it's perhaps also possible that the true purpose of the Throne had not been divulged, and instead that they think it is a life support (though it might well be that too...).

downundercadet07
09-05-2008, 01:50
Actually, I thought I remembered the psyker sacrifice powering the Astronomicon after his interment. (as most of his power went sleepy-bye in the warp or ... more modernly... used battling demon incursions)

Psykers are sacrificed to both. The psychic choir of the Astronomicon, which is so vast that it fills the interior of a hollowed out mount Everest, drains them over a matter of weeks. However, the power or purity of the psyker is largely irrelevant for the astronomicon-- the majority of the black ships' hold end up feeding it. Those fed to the emperor must be kind, morally perfect people, the best of humanity. And psykers. So the irony is that most of the 'new men' that the emperor strove to create are being wiped out to keep him tortured on the throne. That's pathos, folks.

Imperialis_Dominatus
09-05-2008, 03:05
@Xisor: Wow... I'd kind of expected them to write such a compelling piece a little bit better. Interesting stuff, still, though.