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Gimp
07-05-2008, 21:52
I was thinking of maybe starting a Southlands Lizardmen list but I realised skinks might get lame after a while. So now I am thinking of a Tomb King army. But after reviewing loads of lists I realized that people often go for the shooting list with the bowmen, skull catapult and carsket with some added ushabti counter attack. I really like these models but I am thinking of maybe trying my hand out at an assualt themed army. So here is a sample list.

263=Tomb King + Light Armour + Fail of Skulls + Golden Ankhra
165=Liche Priest + Cloak of Dunes + Nefara’s Plaques of Mighty Incantations
140=Liche Priest + Dispel Scroll
100=Icon Bearer + Armour of Ages
80= 10 Skeleton Warriors + Bows
185=20 Skeleton Warriors + Full Command + Shields
160=4 Chariots
310=18 Tomb Guard + Full Command + Icon of Rakaph
85=Tomb Scorpion
85=Tomb Scorpion
195= 3 Ushabti
220=Bone Giant

I just want to add some few thoughts on the list.

1) I was torn between the High Liche Priest and the Tomb King. The Tomb King really fits as the army is called TOMB KINGS and he is great in combat. However the High Liche Priest would make a great Hierophant and I might need loads of magic to get into combat.

2) I was confused on what to give the Tomb King. A chariot would be cool but I like the idea of the Tomb King in the Tomb Guard unit it just sounds better. The Destroyer is a cool item but I like my ward saves and the Fail of Skulls is good however against the new High Elves and Vampire Counts the Crook anf Fail of Radiance might be a good option.

3) Do you guys think 2 Liche Priests are enough?

4) I wanted something to help the skeletons oin combat but I dont like the idea of having a Tomb King and Tomb Prince (might lead to a power struggle) so I thought a Icon Bearer would be cool and with his magic armour he might actually survive combat.

5) The skeleton bowmen I think are almost mandatory in a tomb King army. I dont usually uses separs but they might be useful on the Warriors.

6) the Chariots are there for fluff reasons at the moment after all what is a Tomb King army without some chariots. Right?

7) The Icon of Rakaph is usually a more defensive banner but I can see it being useful in this army.

8) Tomb Scorpions are great they can take out warmachines or help my infantry out.

9) Ushabti are great. I wanted to have 4 so I could have all 4 different heads but would that be over bored.

10) Although the Bone Giant is not the greatest unit I love the idea behind it, its a great model and it fits the assualt based theme.

11) I would like to maybe add some Carrions and Swarms as I play Dark Elves and dont often get to use those tupe of units. Should I drop the Giant and add 1 more Ushabti, Swarms and Carrions?

Thanks any suggestions would be great.

Alpha_Wolf
08-05-2008, 00:20
I was thinking of maybe starting a Southlands Lizardmen list but I realised skinks might get lame after a while. So now I am thinking of a Tomb King army. But after reviewing loads of lists I realized that people often go for the shooting list with the bowmen, skull catapult and carsket with some added ushabti counter attack. I really like these models but I am thinking of maybe trying my hand out at an assualt themed army. So here is a sample list.

263=Tomb King + Light Armour + Fail of Skulls + Golden Ankhra
165=Liche Priest + Cloak of Dunes + Nefara’s Plaques of Mighty Incantations
140=Liche Priest + Dispel Scroll
100=Icon Bearer + Armour of Ages
80= 10 Skeleton Warriors + Bows
185=20 Skeleton Warriors + Full Command + Shields
160=4 Chariots
310=18 Tomb Guard + Full Command + Icon of Rakaph
85=Tomb Scorpion
85=Tomb Scorpion
195= 3 Ushabti
220=Bone Giant

I just want to add some few thoughts on the list.

1) I was torn between the High Liche Priest and the Tomb King. The Tomb King really fits as the army is called TOMB KINGS and he is great in combat. However the High Liche Priest would make a great Hierophant and I might need loads of magic to get into combat.

2) I was confused on what to give the Tomb King. A chariot would be cool but I like the idea of the Tomb King in the Tomb Guard unit it just sounds better. The Destroyer is a cool item but I like my ward saves and the Fail of Skulls is good however against the new High Elves and Vampire Counts the Crook anf Fail of Radiance might be a good option.

3) Do you guys think 2 Liche Priests are enough?

4) I wanted something to help the skeletons oin combat but I dont like the idea of having a Tomb King and Tomb Prince (might lead to a power struggle) so I thought a Icon Bearer would be cool and with his magic armour he might actually survive combat.

5) The skeleton bowmen I think are almost mandatory in a tomb King army. I dont usually uses separs but they might be useful on the Warriors.

6) the Chariots are there for fluff reasons at the moment after all what is a Tomb King army without some chariots. Right?

7) The Icon of Rakaph is usually a more defensive banner but I can see it being useful in this army.

8) Tomb Scorpions are great they can take out warmachines or help my infantry out.

9) Ushabti are great. I wanted to have 4 so I could have all 4 different heads but would that be over bored.

10) Although the Bone Giant is not the greatest unit I love the idea behind it, its a great model and it fits the assualt based theme.

11) I would like to maybe add some Carrions and Swarms as I play Dark Elves and dont often get to use those tupe of units. Should I drop the Giant and add 1 more Ushabti, Swarms and Carrions?

Thanks any suggestions would be great.


Hey Gimp! First of all, were you born in South Africa? I was born in Cape Town, been to Joburgh before. Anyway, I was just wondering, speak afrikaans?

I've got a tomb kings list floating around here as well, heavy chariots, maybe we can help each other out.

1) The high liche and tomb king are both brilliant but for assault I would pick the tomb king. He adds some serious close combat punch. More than this though, he losens some of the tension between which special choices you want. All the TK special choices are pretty sweet (although personally I don't like tomb guard as much) and moving one of those to a core slot really frees things up. There is no wrong choice between the two lords however, up to you but I'll stick with my tomb king unless I'm going with a shooty army.

2) I wouldn't put my tomb king in a unit of tomb guard but I am sort of biased against tomb guard in general. Dedicating a lord to an already expensive unit creates a kind of "all your eggs in one basket". They are also on foot so they will be slow, if your opponent decides to let some of your others spells through this unit may only wind up moving 4" a turn.

I'm a huge fan of the flail of skulls, fantastic weapon. The crook and flail of radiance aren't bad either but they won't help you much against high elves anymore. They all strike first and have muuuuch high initiative so the TK will still be going second. I find the flail of skulls to be the best "all rounder".

3) Two liche priests mmm...it depends on what your opponent takes more magic defence but in most cases, no, I don't think its enough. Your current setup right now gives you 2 single dice incants from the king and then you get two 2d6 spells fromt he priests, one with re-rolls. Only 6 dice will really leave you hanging against most armies.

4) Got a question for you, he he, how much do you like that icon bearer? Because frankly, they really aren't worth it unless you are taking a construct army maybe. This character slot is best used one another liche or maybe a prince if you can shave points somewhere.

5) Most tomb king players won't use spears, here is why: Skellies aren't much good at fighting, they are best used as a tarpit unit. First of all, by using spears one is not taking advantage of the hand wep.+shield rule for the 4+ armor save (assuming you took light armor). The skellies with spears and light armor+shield will be sitting at a 5+ save and will cost you one more point per model with only a few mediocre WS2 S3 attacks to show for it.

6) Chariots are great! Seriously, a hard hitting fast cav unit that counts as core? Yes please! Units of 3 or 4 are best. Don't forget about their bows in the shooting phase. Don't charge them in by themselves though have the chariots support another unit of whatever you like, maybe more chariots. :P

7) Many people consider the icon of rakaph to be the best banner in the game, however, I don't take tomb guard nor icon bearers so its wishful thinking for me. If you have your heart set on tomb guard then this is where the icon belongs. The 360 degree charge arc for a ranked up unit is fantastic. I can only imagine the look on an opponents face when they see the tomb guard swivel their formation around and charge into a lord on a dragon. note: any competent player will only make this mistake once, in fact it might scare them so bad you might find yourself not needing to take the banner if the points are really needed elsewhere. After seeing his dragon lord destroyed once they should be frightened enough to just assume the worst, assume the icon of rakaph.

8) The tomb scorpion is an outright steal for only 85 points...provided you can put the model together. In fact it looks easier to convert it coming up out of the ground than assembling cursed legs!

9) Four Ushabti? Not at all, they make for a sick flanking unit, they are also great at killing other T4 3W models. That S6 in initiative order does a lot for them, they can cut through most units but don't let them get shot! At 21.67 points for a toughness 4 wound with a 5+ save they are vulnerable to shooting.

10) I would pick the Ushabti over the giant, swap them out on occasion and see which one you like better.

11) Carrion are a must! At least one unit of 4-6! By themselves they are pretty average fliers, a little difference here and there but the reason they shine is the speed incants. I don't think I need to explain charging into your opponents prized warmachines on the first turn. :D

Oh and definately get the banner of the undying legion on one of your units and don't miss the heiratic jar either! The jar can be a game breaker.

Alpha_Wolf
08-05-2008, 00:34
Also, I don't know if you are familiar with the khemri website but just incase...

This is a index to many wonderful guides, its a lot of info so read at your own convenience.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=572

Oenghus
08-05-2008, 00:37
My impressions are much like Alpha's, except that I love Tomb Guard. I put a Tomb King (Destroyer of Eternities, Collar of Shapesh) inside, slap the Icon of Rakaph on the unit, and suddenly you have a 360 degree charging, re-growable, ranked up, killy unit. It's nasty. Expensive, but nasty.

Consider the Collar of Shapesh over the Ankhra. If the King's going to be in a ranked up unit the net effect is very much the same, and you probably won't notice the odd skeleton here and there. The Destroyer of Eternities is, by the way, ridiculously good. Remember that you can use the special attack if you get a smiting incantation off. :D

Liche High Priests are pretty good -- in fact they're very good. If you're not going to field one (and you can get by just fine with a King) you should drop the Icon Bearer for another priest. The Icon Bearer really only makes sense for a TK army if you want to carry one of the pricy banners and don't have anywhere to put it.

Don't worry about helping your skeletons win combat -- that's what your Ushabti will be for. Find the points to give them light armour. With a 4+ in combat they'll be surprisingly resilient, and they win by surviving, not killing. Consider the Banner of the Undying Legion here, just for kicks. Consider expanding the archer unit a bit. TK arrowfire is good, but only when massed.

I'd suggest that three models is fine for a chariot unit. Anything more and you start to have frontage issues. You don't really want to be charging ranked up units in the front with them (they're flankers by nature and inclination) so any more than three chariots and you're going to end up with one sticking out the end of combat, doing nothing.

I've never used a Bone Giant. If you do use one please, for the love of whatever God you like the sounds of, don't use the head with the two skeletons kneeling on top. Giant Undead Killing Machines should not have beehive hairdos.

Gimp
08-05-2008, 12:13
Hey Gimp! First of all, were you born in South Africa? I was born in Cape Town, been to Joburgh before. Anyway, I was just wondering, speak afrikaans?...Oh and definately get the banner of the undying legion on one of your units and don't miss the heiratic jar either! The jar can be a game breaker.

Yes I am South African :D

Glad to see some SA people around.



I've never used a Bone Giant. If you do use one please, for the love of whatever God you like the sounds of, don't use the head with the two skeletons kneeling on top. Giant Undead Killing Machines should not have beehive hairdos.


Dont Worry I hate that head too.

Let me place a List up soon. With some added changes.

Makaber
08-05-2008, 12:46
1) I play my Tomb Kings much the same way, and use Tomb King and three priests. The Tomb King is very good in combat and can deal with stuff your regiments will struggle with, so they compliment each other very well. And the three Priests plus the two Tomb King incantations is normally enough magic, I find.

2) I've yet to try the chariot mounted King, he just strikes me as a little vulnerable. I put mine in a regiment of Tomb Guard. I used to have a Skeleton regiment to place him in, but they never got in combat, so now I only have one real block of troops.

3) I tried two Priests, King and Icon Bearer, and while not horrible, I like the freedom the additional Priest gives me a lot. Then again, it's only character models, so it doesn't cost you a fortune to try out a couple of different combinations.

4) I haven't given up on the Icon Bearer. I like the thought of having a front of nearly indestructable Ushabti a lot. However, at the moment he's sitting on the shelf, as three Priests work a lot better for me. When I used him, though, I geared him out for defense, and he was surprisingly die-hard.

5) Skeleton bowmen were my biggest surprise, they kick ass. Spears on the Skeletons I've heard a lot of bad things about, so the general concensus speaks against it. Then again, it's only 25 points for the unit, so it might be worth trying if you got a little points to spare and know you're up against some weak opposition.

6) Right! Also, chariots are awesome. I want another unit in my army. They're cheap, and can easily smash aside light units of elite infantry that rely on striking first (*choughSwordmasterschough*).

7) It's pretty good. Awesome on paper, but the times I've used it, it hasn't worked that well really, because the unit tends to get stuck in combat and then remain there for a good long while. Now, I either go with the Icon or a humble Warbanner on my Tomb Guard.

8) Tomb Scorpions are damn good. Don't discount the Swarms though. They are a core choice, and you can't take out two Swarm bases with a single cannonball, like you can with the Scorpion.

9) Three Ushabti can work but is one too few in most cases. Four Ushabti is ideal.

10) I'll tell you about the Bone Giant later.

11) No on the additional Ushabti. The fifth Ushabti in the unit either makes the frontage too long and unwieldy, or is dead weight at the back. Carrion are really good though, because they offer you something that's really fast, in an army that is otherwise really really slow. Add to the fact you can use them to fly over a unit, then magically charge them into a cunning rear charge. Very positionable and a definite asset.

Now, the Bone Giant. People far too often look at the Bone Giant, look at the Ushabti, and decide the Ushabti packs more damage per point and discard the Giant completely. This is a bit unfair, because the Giant has a lot of tricks up its sleeve.

Faster! 1" might not sound like much, but if you move it, then magically charge it, you can benefit from a potential "threat range" of 3" more than the Ushabti.

More maneouverable! Since the Bone Giant can pivot on the spot and doesn't have to wheel, it's easier to get it into position for a magical charge. Add this to the greater move, and you can get it where it needs to be a lot easier than with the Ushabti.

Tougher! It's got Toughness 5 and a 3+ save. Sure it's a large target, but if light missile fire and magic single it out, so what? That's missile fire not aimed at your Ushabti, which are a lot more vulnerable. Just don't parade it infront of Bolt Throwers or Cannons. The high Toughness and good save also makes it almost invulnerable against Strength 3 troops.

Bigger! The Ushabti can be "killed off" and their effectivity diminishes as they take more and more wounds (and lose models). The Giant on the other hand, is just as dangerous at one remaining wound, as it was with its full six. Also, he remains US6 all the time.

Terrifying! Terror might not come into play that often, but when it does it often have game-altering effects unlike anything in the game.

Its main weakness in my book is the WS of only 3. If it had 4 and could hit on 3+ against most infantry, it would be awesome, but 3 limits its Unstoppable Assault a lot. Remember that it's really same difference against infantry with WS 4 or more though, so if you use it with Ushabti, it often pays off to get the Giant into a fight against any WS4 regiment, so the Ushabti can benefit more from their WS4 against a WS3 regiment.

Furthermore, WS3 and 4 are just as good against WS2 enemies. Hitting on 3+ makes the Unstoppable Assault truly great. If you know you're up against an opponent with a lot of WS2 troops, the Giant is well worth considering. Especailly since low WS goes hand in hand with low Ld (with regards to Terror).

So that's my take on it. I'm not saying the Giant is better than Ushabti, and I'm not discounting that it might be a couple of points too expensive (or a WS too low), but its certainly not the waste of points many will have you believe it is.

Gimp
08-05-2008, 16:04
Here are two lists I am thinking of using

List 1

This one is basicly the origonal list but is far more combat and fighty

263=Tomb King + Light Armour + Fail of Skulls + Golden Ankhra
165=Liche Priest + Cloak of Dunes + Nefara’s Plaques of Mighty Incantations
140=Liche Priest + Dispel Scroll
100=Icon Bearer + Armour of Ages
80=10 Skeleton Warriors + Bows
196=19 Skeleton Warriors + Full Command + Shields + Light Armour
160=4 Chariots
310=18 Tomb Guard + Full Command + Icon of Rakaph
85=Tomb Scorpion
85=Tomb Scorpion
195=3 Ushabti
220=Bone Giant

List 2

This one has more magic in it which will make my army faster and maybe even better in combat.

263=Tomb King + Light Armour + Fail of Skulls + Golden Ankhra
165=Liche Priest + Cloak of Dunes + Nefara’s Plaques of Mighty Incantations
140=Liche Priest + Hieratic Jar
115=Liche Priest
80=10 Skeleton Warriors + Bows
90=2 Tomb Swarms
230=20 Skeleton Warriors + Full Command + Light Armour + Shields + Banner of the Undying Legion
160=4 Chariots
310=18 Tomb Guard + Full Command + Icon of Rakaph
85=Tomb Scorpion
85=Tomb Scorpion
260= 4 Ushabti

1) As you can see I dropped the Icon Bearer and Bone Giant. After looking at the Icon Bearer I saw that he only had 2 attacks making his suppourt of the Warriors very limited. So I took a Priest instead.

2) The points made up for the Bone Giant I used to get 2 swarms, 1 more Ushabti and the Banner.

3) Ushabti are cool and now I can have 1 of each head

4) Swarms can take down warmachines and wizards or redirect charges

5) Without the Icon Bear I wanted to make the Warriors more of a anvil unit so the Banner of Undying Legion seemed right for it.

6) I really wanted to add some carrions in but I run out os speacial choices. Was thinking that now I have 3 burrowing units if dropping 1 Scorpion for 4 carrions might not be such a bad idea.

Well thanks and agian for any help you guys will be giving me.