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destroyerhive
08-05-2008, 16:21
I'm doing a Slaanesh themed Daemon army and was wondering what people arm their KOS with. I can't deceide what 2 to give mine. Any help would be
greatful :D

edit: correct spelling and grammar

L192837465
08-05-2008, 18:07
I'm doing a Slaanesh themed Daemon army and was wondering what ppl arm their KOS with. I can't deciede wot 2 give mine. Any help wud b greatful :D


In the future for everyones enjoyment, please spell out words correctly and use proper grammar. Thank you.

stonehorse
08-05-2008, 22:10
I'm thinking Spirit Swallower is very useful, it does take up all the points allowed for the gifts. As the Keeper of Secrets has a high WS, ASF, AP, and 6 attacks, the chances are high that a near death Keeper of Secrets can get back to full health very easily.

studderigdave
09-05-2008, 01:11
swallower is cool, but like stated, it soaks up all your gift points. im undecided on my exact build, but im liking demonic robes and sophoric musk. the robes would be modeled as demonic nudity though if the demon comes to the table.

Fallenturtle
09-05-2008, 06:54
I personally run Aura of Acquiescence, and the torment blade.. and its worked so far.. only makes him 600 and can be VERY effective in cc.. i have only had my kipper die once in the 5 games i've played him.. and that was cause he took a bolt to the face and a bunch of elfs ganked up on him

Neknoh
09-05-2008, 09:27
my current build can be seen BOTH in the Tactica and in my Armylist, and it basically involves every daemonic gift he can take that is 25 points:


Enrapturing Gaze, Siren Song, Musk and Soul Hunger

He's 550 points and is guaranteed to kill any one Knight unit the first turn of the game (if the chaos player gains first turn). Move him up so that he can charge stuff the next turn, sing to a very important enemy knight unit. Either Knights flee and probably flee straight off the table, or they charge and gets eaten allive by him before they break and gets run down, placing him very nicely and closely to the enemy. Even better, any unit that tries to bring him down will be down to their own leadership for their breaktests, meaning that even if he wins with only 1 point, Ld7 basic troops and similar is going to have one helluva time dealing with him.

For extra fun added, upgrade him to a lvl 3 for another 120 points, this is nothing but nasty

LooseMoose
09-05-2008, 11:28
The Keeper has ASF so Siren Song is pretty much mandatory for dealing with any shock troops that vaguely worry you,but do try using Spirit Swallower out whilst the army is still new. I can imagine it'd be alright for throwing your Keeper at things like Greatswords. I really would not bother with Robes however, there are a lot of better options you can take if something (other than say a cannon) is going to have that much strength. If you do take such things as Gaze and Allure consider having the Masque/-2Ld banner near to further enforce such abilities.

Nabeshin1106
09-05-2008, 13:07
I had a game yesterday against Lizardmen where I had my KoS as a lvl4 Wizard carrying an Etherblade and Siren Song. He managed to make a couple of units Stupid, and got Phantasmagoria off once, so i don't think the magic helped, but the Etherblade/Siren Song worked marvels.

He ran forward first turn, used Siren Song on a unit of 3 Salamanders and their Skinks, won combat, chased them down, then went into the rear flank of the enemy army. He then turned a huge combat involving a Slaan and Temple Guard, and then finished the game by killing off a decked out Scar Vet on Cold one.

Killing those Salamanders off really saved me from the damage my Daemonettes would have taken, and that Etherblade really payed for itself.

isidril93
09-05-2008, 13:12
sprit swallower would be good since the keeper has only T6 to protect him and a 5+ ward but when you think about it that aint that great
sure we will be hard to wound but some one like an elf prince could have a 2+ re-rollable armour save and a 4+ ward, even though they are T3

remember that the keeper is a large target all alone...a shooty army's dream...all they need is 5 6s and him to fail his save

shartmatau
09-05-2008, 13:53
Thats a little harsh on the Keeper I think. I mean if you are going to use it then use it well. It moves 10" so can easily manuever to where you want it, and stay out of using terrain if need be. And the rest of the game it should be in combat or behind those shooting units.

isidril93
09-05-2008, 14:04
true...you do have a point
i suppose the best tactic is to keep the keeper always in combat

i guess it shows that i have not been playing the new daemons (just 1 game in which the keeper played quite well, within 3 turns he had won over 500 points)

but its just that i like the keeper so much i really dont want him dying

and if you use the siren...do the enemy unit have to take a terror test in order to charge you?

shartmatau
09-05-2008, 15:45
Yes they still have to take all normal psychology tests. The difference is that the unit must charge (and take any tests required) or Flee and that it works on all units, even those ITP. I am definitely using Siren Song and Enrapturing Gaze as well as Sporific Mask. This should be enough for the Keeper to take down one nasty unit early then take down units of opportunity after that.
My plan is also to have the combat when I use Siren Song near either the Masque or my Standard Bearer with the - Ld Icon. To help with the leadership punishment.

stonehorse
09-05-2008, 16:42
It is best used against units that aren't ITP, as they'll just charge, and the Keeper of Secrets won't be able to exploit it's Terror. That and it is a one use only upgrade, so it needs to be used at the right time.

fubukii
09-05-2008, 17:39
spirit swallower seems like a pretty amazing ability, makes the keeper extremely hard to kill once he makes it into combat.

shartmatau
09-05-2008, 18:11
It is best used against units that aren't ITP, as they'll just charge, and the Keeper of Secrets won't be able to exploit it's Terror. That and it is a one use only upgrade, so it needs to be used at the right time.

I kind of agree. Basically Siren Song should be used on units that are a big threat to the rest of the army. Things like Knights that could really hurt lesser daemons and i bet my opponent doesn't want them to charge a greater daemon. Essentially its there to mess up your opponents plans, pull one unit out of formation and wreck it. It depends on the situation but I'll probably be using against knights, maybe flyers, other big things like guys on dragons.

It shouldn't be used unless you actually want the unit to charge the Keeper. You can get units to take Terror checks when you charge them so Siren Song should be used to make a unit charge the Keeper that your opponent most likely doesn't want to charge it with. Then you force your opponent to accept fighting the Keeper or to run. And if they move fast and you use it early then there is a good chance that running equals leaving the board.

riven5
09-05-2008, 19:12
I really enjoy the spirit (soul?) swallower gift. It's just so powerful. Because of the Keepers high movement rate, you can safely say that it's going to be able to pick and choose which enemies it's taking on, when, and how. A friend of mine has been using one to consistently flank or rear attack ranked up WS3 or WS4 enemies, and it's just a nightmare for the opponent. Hitting on 5's even after passing a terror check (with Phantasmagoria in play!) is just plain rough.

Think on this: With 6 WS9 S6 AP attacks, the KoS can confidently regain anywhere from 3 to 4 wounds every close combat phase against practically any ranked infantry! That means you really have to kill the KoS outright, or s/he'll simply go right back up to five wounds. Killing a KoS outright ain't the easiest thing to do in the world either...T6 with a 5+ ward save..

Assume a HE Prince w/Lance on a Star Dragon charged a KoS. 10 attacks hitting on a 4+, 4 of which will wound on a 4+, 6 of which will wound on a 3+. You're looking at about 5 hits, 3 wounds, and 1 ward save. So the KoS drops down 2 wounds (assuming that the KoS didn't kill the Prince before he attacked thanks to ASF and I10).

And now the KoS gets to attack 6 times, probably hit 4 times, potentially wound 2 times (attacking the Dragon, no less), and ignore the armor save of the Star Dragon entirely. Now the KoS is back to full health, and the Prince on Star Dragon is down two wounds, and no longer is enjoying the strength bonus from the charge with a lance.

Good times.

ChaseyBoy27
09-05-2008, 20:07
I'm doing a Slaanesh themed Daemon army and was wondering what people arm their KOS with. I can't deceide what 2 to give mine. Any help would be
greatful :D

edit: correct spelling and grammar

for a suggestion, I would first off make him a level four wizard. Afterwards, I would give him Temptator, Erupting Gaze, and Daemonic Robes.

SlaaneshSlave
09-05-2008, 20:51
I tend to play against shooty heavy armies (WE & Dwarfs). My idea to to give my KoS the Spirit Swallower.

1st turn he runs up into charge distance. A million shots all hitting on +1 (Large target) head towards the KoS. I expect to take 3-4 wounds. T6 is T6 after all.

Turn 2 the Keeper is in combat & starts healing himself.

So, I see the Swallower as more of a turn delayed ward save than a CC benefit.

SlaaneshSlave
09-05-2008, 21:01
Are the Daemonic Robes worth it?

It only effects S8 & greater hits. And even for them they move from wounding 83% to 66%.

studderigdave
09-05-2008, 21:24
i will prolly run robes on my KoS when i make mine.

Neknoh
09-05-2008, 21:48
I really enjoy the spirit (soul?) swallower gift. It's just so powerful. Because of the Keepers high movement rate, you can safely say that it's going to be able to pick and choose which enemies it's taking on, when, and how. A friend of mine has been using one to consistently flank or rear attack ranked up WS3 or WS4 enemies, and it's just a nightmare for the opponent. Hitting on 5's even after passing a terror check (with Phantasmagoria in play!) is just plain rough.

Think on this: With 6 WS9 S6 AP attacks, the KoS can confidently regain anywhere from 3 to 4 wounds every close combat phase against practically any ranked infantry! That means you really have to kill the KoS outright, or s/he'll simply go right back up to five wounds. Killing a KoS outright ain't the easiest thing to do in the world either...T6 with a 5+ ward save..

Assume a HE Prince w/Lance on a Star Dragon charged a KoS. 10 attacks hitting on a 4+, 4 of which will wound on a 4+, 6 of which will wound on a 3+. You're looking at about 5 hits, 3 wounds, and 1 ward save. So the KoS drops down 2 wounds (assuming that the KoS didn't kill the Prince before he attacked thanks to ASF and I10).

And now the KoS gets to attack 6 times, probably hit 4 times, potentially wound 2 times (attacking the Dragon, no less), and ignore the armor save of the Star Dragon entirely. Now the KoS is back to full health, and the Prince on Star Dragon is down two wounds, and no longer is enjoying the strength bonus from the charge with a lance.

Good times.

However, the Keeper would be hitting first both times, in which case, I'd almost risk attacking the prince rather than the dragon due to hitting either of them on a 3+ but wounding the prince on a 2+, and stardragon princes are made to leave things away from btb contact by not leaving anything in there alive.

fubukii
10-05-2008, 19:28
the problem with attacking the prince is that, He probably is packing a 4+ or a 5+ ward and a 2+ save with maybe rerolling failed saves even so, the standard prince will get at least a 6+ 5+ ward or a 6+ rerollable and a 4+ ward making your keeper lose effectiveness. By attacking the dragon you get rid of the prince by out number and autobreaking. after the charge the prince wont hurt you ever but that dragon still wounds you on 3s making it the fight risky for your big daemon. regardless 3s then then 4s aint too bad, its actually a little worse to attack the standard 2+ save 5 Ward prince then it is to attack the dragon. If the prince is packing 2+ rerollable 4 + ward its alot better off that you attack that dragon by about a wound or so.

Lijacote
10-05-2008, 19:31
2+ save

Which becomes a 6+. Really, princes on dragons aren't all that tough to kill for a Keeper of Secrets.

isidril93
10-05-2008, 19:36
maybe ut a star dragon has a better profile although the keeper has better rules
the dragon draws or beats the daemon on everything except WS and I but he beats the keeper with more A and S and 2 more wounds

riven5
10-05-2008, 20:32
maybe ut a star dragon has a better profile although the keeper has better rules
the dragon draws or beats the daemon on everything except WS and I but he beats the keeper with more A and S and 2 more wounds

And yet in my example, the Dragon + Prince combo will still almost certainly lose a long fight. The Dragon and Prince simply cannot deal out enough damage to kill the KoS, who happily regains any wounds lost while wearing the Dragon down. Once it's down to just the KoS and the Prince, well, that's no fight at all.

This is of course assuming some kind of straight up battle, which is unlikely. With the Star Dragons flight and the KoS movement of 10", I doubt these guys would ever tangle with one another except through flank or rear charges.

Keeper of Secrets is probably my favorite of all the Greater Daemons thanks to that gift :)

isidril93
10-05-2008, 20:35
yeah but remember that the keeper will be striking first so while this may seem like a advantage it means that he cant regain wounds until the next turn

but i agree with you one one thing:the keeper is the best greater daemon

fubukii
10-05-2008, 23:59
Which becomes a 6+. Really, princes on dragons aren't all that tough to kill for a Keeper of Secrets.

Im well aware of how armor save modifers work :) ,but the save which im talking about is either a 6+ rerollable, with a 4+ ward meaing like 1.3 wounds on avg per turn from the keeper or a 6+ save 5+ward averaging 1.8 wounds from the keeper, while your average vs the dragon, would be 2 wounds.

Lijacote
11-05-2008, 10:34
Im well aware of how armor save modifers work :) ,but the save which im talking about is either a 6+ rerollable, with a 4+ ward meaing like 1.3 wounds on avg per turn from the keeper or a 6+ save 5+ward averaging 1.8 wounds from the keeper, while your average vs the dragon, would be 2 wounds.

Of course, I meant no offense. But a 6+ save is not one to be relied on.

Von Wibble
11-05-2008, 11:07
I would have Torment Blade, Enrapturing Gaze, Allure of Slaanesh and Siren Song.

Like with Neknoh's build, Siren song and Enrapturing gaze make me favourite against a nasty shock unit early on. I don't get to reroll my 2s to wound and they get to flee full distance. However the latter I can deal with just by moving a cheap unit (Furies are ideal) behind the knights after they charge, thus enabling "crossfire".

Torment Blade and Allure mean to attack the KOS an enemy needs to pass 2 Ld checks (a safe assumption a KOs can inflict 1 wound first with that many attacks and ASF), on their own Ld, which can of course be penalised further by the Masque and banner (in turn 1 its not like the Masque has anyother targets...).

Muad'Dib
11-05-2008, 11:53
For me, a cheap Keeper is the best one. Thus I would only kit mine with Siren Song (possibly best gift in the book) and Torment Blade, and 4th magic level - lore of Slaanesh is just too good to pass.
The leadership based abilities are too situational - becoming wasted points when the Keeper fights normal troops.

Neknoh
11-05-2008, 12:04
Lvl 4 is way, way expensive, weighing in at 240 points. Lvl 3 is a much better option in my eyes, half the points and one spell less. The big letdown here is that it's only Tzeentchian daemons who are able to add to their dice pool, however, a Tzeentchian Slaaneshi alliance with Blue Scribes and a herald with Vortex coupled with a Lvl 3 Keeper and the Masque should make quick work out of an enemy army pure magicy wise, despite only having 3 spells from the Lore of Slaanesh.

Tuch
11-05-2008, 14:24
Level 4 is 120 not 240. You don't have to pay for all the previous levels then by level 4 as well.

Von Wibble
11-05-2008, 14:55
For me, a cheap Keeper is the best one. Thus I would only kit mine with Siren Song (possibly best gift in the book) and Torment Blade, and 4th magic level - lore of Slaanesh is just too good to pass.
The leadership based abilities are too situational - becoming wasted points when the Keeper fights normal troops.

But when the Keeper figths normal troops he wins anyway - assuming you set it up right of course. Given the choice of paying 600pts for a Keeper who is great against R+F and in magic, or 650pts for a Keeper just as good at these and capable of handling pretty much any character (with Masque and/or banner even a bloodthirster), the latter is always the better choice.

Level 4 is a given - note that Tuch is right, you don't pay for level 2 and 3 if getting a level 4 caster.

Muad'Dib
11-05-2008, 16:00
But when the Keeper figths normal troops he wins anyway - assuming you set it up right of course. Given the choice of paying 600pts for a Keeper who is great against R+F and in magic, or 650pts for a Keeper just as good at these and capable of handling pretty much any character (with Masque and/or banner even a bloodthirster), the latter is always the better choice.

The problem for me is, that this is situational - in order for the gifts to work on LD 9/10 characters, you need to have either the banner or Masque in range when you get into combat. And even then they can still pass the test, testing in 6/7 LD. I'd rather bulk up Daemonettes units, then spend more points on an already hugely expensive character, just in case he needs to fight other lords.
I admit though, that the abilities might have a psychological effect, making opponents think twice before charging the Keeper with characters.

StefDa
11-05-2008, 16:44
I wouldn't run Daemonic Robes, as I don't think it is worth it. In my gaming group, at least. As someone stated, it only comes into effect versus something with S8+. I find the Robes very situational.

Lijacote
11-05-2008, 16:53
I wouldn't run Daemonic Robes, as I don't think it is worth it. In my gaming group, at least. As someone stated, it only comes into effect versus something with S8+. I find the Robes very situational.

Eh? How is it not worth it? A quarter of your allowance and you can only be wounded on 2's, given the attack has enough strength behind it... at least, that's how I've understood it. Am I in the wrong? If so, I played terribly wrong yesterday. Take cannons for example. If the Robes work like I imagine them to, they'll have to roll a 2 to wound. Which might be the best ever protection against cannonballs for daemons.

tortoise
11-05-2008, 18:29
Daemonic robes- Anything that would normally require a 2+ to wound requires a 3+

Lijacote
11-05-2008, 19:26
... Damnation.

tortoise
11-05-2008, 19:31
Well its only 25 pts- the way you were playing it would have cost far more than that.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
11-05-2008, 19:39
My suggested Keeper Configuration was one I first unveiled over at The Daemonic Legion forum.

My concept is:

Keeper (Level 4 if you want, I would always since Slaanesh magic is amazing)

Temptator, Allure of Slaanesh, Soul Hunger, Torment Blade

---------

(now, leaving aside the huge debate on whether Torment Blade gives you +1 Attack when you add it to the default "Claws (hand weapon)" that all Keepers have)...consider how this works !

----------

Assuming you are engaging an enemy character (so Temptator works)...you will go first since you are Always Strikes First and Init-10.

You attack...with all those attacks, high strength, and armor piercing, we can assume we cause AT LEAST 1-wound to the enemy character (say a Prince on Star Dragon, as that's popular).

Okay..we have wounded the Prince once.

Now...we nominate the Prince as our target for Temptator. Okay Prince..pass a Leadership test or attack your dragon mount or other friends (if any) in base to base contact with you. Okay...you passed it ?

Now your turn Prince...what...you...you want to attack me ? Okay...hold on there...make ANOTHER Leadership test. Why ? Because Allure of Slaanesh requires you to pass a Leadership test if you want to attack my Keeper.

Okay...did you pass that ? Maybe...maybe not.


Now...now you want to attack me yes ? Whoops ! Not yet. Nope...sorry. You must now pass a THIRD consecutive Leadership Test to actually attack me since you were wounded by my Torment Blade and it's effect says that any model wounded by a Daemon with this Gift, may not attack back in that round of combat unless they first pass a Leadership test !


Whoops ! THREE consecutive tests which must be passed just to see if the Prince can actually make his attacks !

This says nothing of the fact that the Prince will only hit on 4+ (WS-9 for Keeper) ...and still has to wound...and then we get our Ward Save anyways !

-----------------------------


Note that this becomes EXTREMELY great (borderline broken) when you have your battle standard bearing Daemon with the Icon of Despair (-2 to all enemy units' Leadership values if they are within 12-inches of the Icon).

Now the Prince would be reduced to Leadership 8 (IIRC)...and have to pass all three of those tests on Ldr-8, instead of Ldr-10.


To TRULY push it over-the-top...consider casting Phantasmagoria FIRST...then going through all those rolls with the Prince having to roll THREE dice each time he's taking those Leadership tests, and discarding the lowest of the three :evilgrin:


Yes....yes...the Daemons of Chaos are amazing...:evilgrin: :D

SlaaneshSlave
11-05-2008, 20:17
Allure works against everybody in BtB, which is nice.

But Temptator & Torment Blade seem to be solely for when you are charged by a dude on a dragon. Are there that many times a KoS needs defense from an opponent character?

Neknoh
11-05-2008, 20:53
Seeing as appart from multi-wound units, those are the only ones who could ever hope to hurt a Keeper (lest we're talking about equally powerful monsters), so yes, everything hoping to hurt a keeper will hope to stand and weather all of the attacks from the keeper and then striking back, something Temptator, Torment Blade and the Masque will make sure does not happen

Fulgrim's-Chosen
11-05-2008, 21:30
Don't forget the combo-ability of the Slaaneshi magic either !

I have read two battle reports already where the Slaanesh Daemons were up against the Khorne Daemons (Mono-v-mono) and Slaanesh (perhaps surprisingly, perhaps not) just devastated Khorne.

One turn-1, the Slaaneshi's ended up using Acquiesence (insanely good for the 1st spell in the Lore !) on three separate Khorne units (1 Bloodletter, 1 Bloodcrusher, 1 Bloodthirster !!!) and suceeeded with them. Granted the Khorne guy rolled poorly with his Magic Resistance for the Thirster, but the others are only MR(1) so it's hardly a guarantee, particularly with only 2 basic Dispel Dice for Khorne armies now.

I think the Keeper tossed 3 dice at the thirster after bleeding one of the other common Dispel Dice from the Khorne pool with the first two Acquiesences from his Heralds. The Keeper's three dice were just higher than the 2 the Thirster got from his Magic Resistance plus the final common pool Dispel Dice the Khorne guy had left. Bad luck for the Khornies !

----------

Anyways...turn 1 the Stupidity affected the Bloodthirster and Crushers...and they staggered forward drooling like idiots.


Not much else happened for Khorne (no magic - lol).


Turn 2...the Slaaneshi's cast Phantasmagoria with the Keeper and 4 Dice (only need 10+ and the Khornies' only have 2 base Dispel Dice to try and stop it with).


Then the Keeper charged the Bloodthirster.


The Thirster got whacked for 2 wounds right away (ASF - STR-6, Armor Piercing made the 3+ Armor Save the Thirster had nothing and he only passed 1 Ward Save).

Then the Thirster tried to attack back...and the Slaaneshi laid The Fulgrim-Triple :p (Reg-TM) - down on him - that is Temptator, plus Allure of Slaanesh, plus having been wounded from the Torment Blade.

The Thirster had to try and pass THREE consecutive Leadership Tests with Ldr-9 ...rolling THREE dice and tossing out the lowest rolled. He would pass one...then fail the next...or pass two...then fail the final one.

Needless to say, for the next two turns, the Thirster could do nothing against the Keeper as he got shredded. The Crushers weren't able to do much either since they failed stupidity again (Leadership 7 ...rolling 3 dice, and discarding the lowest...ouch... - good ol' Slaaneshi magic !).


----------

So don't underestimate the stuff you can do with that triple-combo ! It's evil.

Tuch
11-05-2008, 22:14
Keeper (Level 4 if you want, I would always since Slaanesh magic is amazing)

Temptator, Allure of Slaanesh, Soul Hunger, Torment Blade

Only problem with this is it is 105 points and you are only allowed 100.

Also what would determine the order of the leadership tests, the opponent could argue that torment blade goes first and if failed would not have to suffer from Temptator.

Don't get me wrong, I love your combo and am going to try it out, but Soul Hunger has to be dropped.

fubukii
12-05-2008, 02:36
robes are very effective vs dwarves, skaven, and empire players who can pack high str long range shots that inflict d6 wounds. Vs other armies i would leave them at home.

eleveninches
12-05-2008, 15:13
670: KoS lv4 (siren song, temptator, enrapturing gaze)

Neknoh
12-05-2008, 22:17
Is it only me reading the magic level costs as commulative? I.e. lvl 4 is 240 points, not 120... or am I completely wrong in this?

SlaaneshSlave
12-05-2008, 22:28
I read it as you pick level 3 or level 4. So, I'll pick level 4 for 120, Alex.

stonehorse
12-05-2008, 22:31
Is it only me reading the magic level costs as commulative? I.e. lvl 4 is 240 points, not 120... or am I completely wrong in this?

Do you really think being a level 4 wizard is worth 240pts? You just pick the level you want and pay the points next to that level.

HarbingerOfSlaanesh
14-05-2008, 09:19
My suggested Keeper Configuration was one I first unveiled over at The Daemonic Legion forum.

My concept is:

Keeper (Level 4 if you want, I would always since Slaanesh magic is amazing)

Temptator, Allure of Slaanesh, Soul Hunger, Torment Blade



Would be good, but that is 105pts worth of gifts...

I was thinking of Temptator, Allure, and Soporific Musk or Siren Song

EDIT: Do'oh didn't realise I wasn't on the last page, my bad...

Fulgrim's-Chosen
14-05-2008, 13:23
BZZT - brain freeze :cool:

You guys are right. I wrote incorrectly.

What I HAVE been doing is not including Temptator - I did in this example since we were talking about the Triple LDR-thingy.

It's good...but not useful in EVERY combat...like Soul Hunger and some of the others would be.

So what I've actually suggested is EITHER of these two (Sorry about the mistyped points-etc initially):


1) Temptator, Allure of Slaanesh, Torment Blade = "Fulgrim Triple"

2) Allure of Slaanesh, Soul Hunger, Siren Song, Torment Blade = probably overall the better choice.

Von Wibble
14-05-2008, 17:42
The problem for me is, that this is situational - in order for the gifts to work on LD 9/10 characters, you need to have either the banner or Masque in range when you get into combat. And even then they can still pass the test, testing in 6/7 LD. I'd rather bulk up Daemonettes units, then spend more points on an already hugely expensive character, just in case he needs to fight other lords.


When you say "bulk up the points", you actually mean get 2 more Daemonettes, since the items in question are not pricy.

And when you say "pass the test at Ld 6", you actually mean pass the 2 tests at Ld 6. Probability of doing so is about 1 in 6. Its Ld 5 for everything except an Elf, Dwarf or Vampire lord, which goes down to less than 1 in 12. Considering Soul Hunger for example averages less than 1 extra wound in most cases (exception being if you expect to face a GD or Dragon or the like), I think this is a more strong counter measure.

Masque and banner will be in range through how you set it up since the charater is forced to charge you.

Firebreather
14-05-2008, 18:48
I apologize if the build I'm thinking of has been mentioned already, as I haven't read through every page of this thread yet. By the amount of replies, I have a feeling it likely has been:) Oh well, just in case...

Keeper of Secrets-
Level 4 Wizard
Temptator
Soporific Musk
Torment Blade

That said, I think I'll take the time to go through the entire thread now, and see what kind of nastiness others have come up with...

isidril93
14-05-2008, 19:17
you know what would be good...a lone fiends coupled up with the keeper
for 55 points you get 4 more attack at s4 (good against a regiment)
will outnumber almost any other monster
and when chasing you role 2 sets of 3D6s and your opponent has to role 3D6s and take of the highest

very ueful if you ask me

Lord Inquisitor
14-05-2008, 19:30
I've been looking through and make some army lists, and the daemon army really suffers from the same problems as the Vampire Counts - so many lovely options but if you max out on your characters you won't have any points left for your troops!

Personally, I'm thinking of either Spirit Swallower (if I'm going to blow the allowance!) or just Siren Song and Soporific Musk and that's it. Upgrade to Level 3 Wizard. The Allure is a definate temption (pun intended) because it affects anyone trying to attack the Daemon, but ultimately everyone in base contact should hopefully be dead because of ASF... right? Oh, and if not maxing out on the allowance, the Torment Blade is definately worth it for a mere 5 points!

I don't see Daemonic Robes as worthwhile and the Etherblade seems to be a total waste of points on a Keeper (with -4 to armour saves as standard!).

HarbingerOfSlaanesh
04-06-2008, 03:05
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Anyways...turn 1 the Stupidity affected the Bloodthirster and Crushers...and they staggered forward drooling like idiots.



But Daemons are immune to psychology so stupidity wouldn't affect them...

Nabeshin1106
04-06-2008, 03:14
Stupidity does affect ItP units.

ItP just makes them auto pass and Fear, Terror or Panic checks they have to take. They can still be affected by stupidity, frenzy, Break tests, etc.

kaintxu
04-06-2008, 04:26
Actaully i's go with torment sword and siren song and lvl 4 or just the soul drinker and lvl 4

OFFTOPIC: Does the KoS actually get an extra attack with the torment sword? claws are a close combat weapon and the sword is also the same, it does not count as magic weapon or anything, just as and extra CC weapon, so this should give him extra attack right?

Tuch
04-06-2008, 04:43
By RAW it would seem it does. By RAI i don't think it should. My small group has been playing that it doesn't until a FAQ says it does.

Chaos Mortal
04-06-2008, 10:54
to be honest the siren song seems like a must for me.

MalusCalibur
04-06-2008, 17:13
My (planned) KoS has just Siren Song and the Torment Blade, as well as being level 3 for magic. Comparatively cheap and still very dangerous.
I'm yet to test it in a game, though, so subject to alteration.


MalusCalibur

destroyerhive
04-06-2008, 18:18
I've now played a couple of games with The Keeper now and i find this works quite well:

Soul Hunger, Soporific Musk, Torment Blade, Lvl.3 Wizard