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Colonel Simon
08-05-2008, 16:39
Hello guys!

I came up with this crazy Nurgle themed Daemonic legion list last night. Tell me what you think about it and what opponents it might struggle against?

Heroes:
Herald of Nurgle
-lvl 1 wizard
-Palanquin
215p
*Joins the beasts of Nurgle

Core:
10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

7 Chaos Furies
84p

7 Chaos Furies
84p

Special:
3 Nurglings
105p

Rare:
14 Beast of Nurgle
1400p

-2248p

The basic idea is to deploy the beasts with the Herald in the centre. Then use Plaguebears to guard this massive unitís flanks and nurglings to guard the rear. The furies will then go and hunt warmachines that may threaten the beasts.
The beast unit will be great for point denial with all those wounds, 5+ wardsave and regeneration, and almost impossible to get down to 7 beasts to get half points. Whatever gets in its way will hopefully end up dead due to all the attacks the unit deals out. Surely it might be hard to win big with this kind of army but hopefully you wonít loose big either. Do you think it can work?

andy10k
08-05-2008, 16:45
Hahaha, that's a funny army to play :P and play against, would be interesting to see it in action! good luck.

fubukii
08-05-2008, 17:26
hope the unit doesnt get hit by flaming attacks and you will be fine :) (such as dwarf flaming cannons and bolt throwers :))

Colonel Simon
08-05-2008, 17:42
Yes, flaming attacks is indeed a problem. This list might struggle against its magic cousin Tzeentch now when all their attacks are flaming. But the risk of playing against a pure Tzeentch legion in a tourney is fairly small so I'm willing to take it. And after all it's 58 T5 wounds with 5+ wardsave so they won't die that easy anyway.

Your Mum Rang
08-05-2008, 18:00
Good lord get a BSB for those Beasties!

isidril93
08-05-2008, 18:08
imagine a fire based magic army against that list

Colonel Simon
08-05-2008, 18:27
Good lord get a BSB for those Beasties!

In my humble opinion I don't think there is any need to. In the new army book the whole unit can't die as a result of a failed Ld test. You just loose wounds for each point you fail the test with. So if I loose a combat which is unlikely in most cases I will just loose a beast if I'm really unlucky.

But I can see that I have made an error in the list. The Herald has only a movement of 4 so he slows down the beasts. And that is of course something I don't want. So I will trade my nurglings for another beast, taking up the unit to 15.
I think that I'm sticking with the palanquin and I'm going to exchange one Furie for a PB. That way I will get a PB with three ranks and regeneration. What do you think about that change?

Colonel Simon
08-05-2008, 18:48
Here's a modified verision. Tell me what you think.

Heroes:
Herald of Nurgle
-lvl 1 wizard
-Palanquin
215p
*Joins Plaguebearers

Core:
12 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
-Musician
-Standard Bearer
-Plagueridden
174p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Chaos Furies
120p

Rare:
15 Beast of Nurgle
1500p

-2249p

fubukii
08-05-2008, 23:06
flames of phoenix would totally rock that unit :)

altho vs most armies that unit is almost unkillable :) i like it

IronBrother
08-05-2008, 23:23
My HE would love to play up against that army. Caradryan would have a chance to kill at least one beast a turn, plus whatever his PG do. But seriously I love that unit, makes me want to use that sometime. Let us know how it goes.

Stouty
09-05-2008, 00:50
I'd be really interested in playing against that, it'd be interesting to see how effective all those beasts were in reality (maths doesn't seem great but instinct tells me they'd do better). With fear+outnumber almost guaranteed the question is would they be able to split the anvil of another army, and crack into all those points. Otherwise I think there's a real risk of them being ignored and the rest of your army being picked apart whilst worthless enemy units stall for time. Also magic could be an issue but no sweat, the unit is quite survivable.

I really like it though, the image of someone charging them in the flank with a light unit to swing things in their favour only to not get any CR for the rank and then be reduced to below US-5 by the extra poisoned attacks really amuses me.

[If you're interested in the maths here goes- I'm assuming you have charged a very hard unit- a regiment of 25 ironbreakers with the BSB. It's a unit I see more often than you'd think- it's a lot of points but again it's really hard to crack into. Often you'll see a lord as well but I'm being lazy. His job woul dbe to challenge the herald and stop him causing any damage at all. I'm going to assume 1 beast attacks the BSB as well.

Beasts
Wounds before AS vs grunts=1.5(poison)+3.75= 5.25
After AS=1.75

Wounds before AS vs BSB= 0.75+ 1.25= 2
After AS=0.3 (often the BSB gets MR of gromril and a runic weapon instead of a flashy banner- it makes him tougher and cheaper usually)

Herald vs Champion (Challenge made by dwarf to reduce casualties likely- could be lord also. I haven't factored for a potential miasma of pestilence which obviously shifts things to about 1.4 wounds )
Wounds before AS= 1+0.9+0.5+0.6= 3 <-Rounding errors happened here
Wounds after AS= 0.3+0.55= 0.8

Total wounds= 2.85 or 3.45

Attacks back
BSB (+1 S +1 A)
Wounds before WS= 1.3
After WS+regen= 0.2

3 grunts-1.75
Negligible (0.046)

Total wounds= 0.24

CR Beasts= 2+[2.85 or 3.45]+1= 5.85 or 6.45= 6
CR dwarfs= 3+1+1+1(battle banner is almost compulsory)+0.24=6.24= 6

V.Close as you can see, a win on 1= autobreak All depends on how lucky you are, but because the dice are added together you will be getting somewhere in the region of 18 attacks.

anuburos
09-05-2008, 01:49
Sounds like a headache to deal with. You should totally record the expression on peoples faces when you plop down that many beasts.

I'd recommend splitting the unit into 2 since you have 2 rare choices. Also, maybe only 5or 6 beasts per unit. Any more and you have beasts that can't really do anything in combat but sit around and wait til a fellow dies so they can fight the next round. With the points saved, get a GUO. He's rock solid and when he's pimping out that many beasts people are gonna hate you!

Reinier
09-05-2008, 13:02
Your list is very confusing. You say you like the point denial and you will play tournaments with it. So whats is the fun of playing if you know beforehand you WILL play 3 draws with this list? I see no challange and no victory at all.

instead, take 2 blocks with 7 beast and a herald in it. together with an BSB you will vaporize any battle line in front of you.

Colonel Simon
09-05-2008, 17:42
@Stouty: Thank you, that's some really interesting maths!


Your list is very confusing. You say you like the point denial and you will play tournaments with it. So whats is the fun of playing if you know beforehand you WILL play 3 draws with this list? I see no challange and no victory at all.

instead, take 2 blocks with 7 beast and a herald in it. together with an BSB you will vaporize any battle line in front of you.

Hah, I did not mean that I am only going to play draws with this list. What I meant was that my opponents will have a large problem winning over me when I have 2/3 of the total points in one unit which is extremely hard to kill, or get down to 1/2 of the models.
On the other hand I think that I might have problems to win big against some opponents if they can avoid this unit. But I'm sure this list will win big in some games too.

There are mainly two reasons not to take 2 units of beasts. First is the idea of a rock hard point denial unit. And second is that in the tournaments in which I'm going to play army composition scores are used. So two identical rare choices of that kind is going to lower my composition score for sure.
BUT, I will surely try out your suggestion once I get all those Beasts and see if I prefer that instead.



Sounds like a headache to deal with. You should totally record the expression on peoples faces when you plop down that many beasts.

I'd recommend splitting the unit into 2 since you have 2 rare choices. Also, maybe only 5or 6 beasts per unit. Any more and you have beasts that can't really do anything in combat but sit around and wait til a fellow dies so they can fight the next round. With the points saved, get a GUO. He's rock solid and when he's pimping out that many beasts people are gonna hate you!

The psycological effect on my opponents will be interesting for sure. I can imagine the expression in their face before the game when I show my opponent whats in my army.
-Hmm let's see I've got a Herald, 30 Plaguebearers and some furies and that's pretty much it.......Oh wait I forgot about these guys...*takes up beasts from the carry case* :skull:

I don't think that I will split the Beast unit for the reasons already mentioned. But I made a list with a GUO in.

-GUO
-30 PB
-15 Beasts

-Tot 2210p

Unfortuneately that's 10 points too little two buy regeneration for the GUO. And I will also get more vurnable to warmachines if I don't have a fast and mobile unit like the furies so I don't think it's worth the sacrafice. Do you guys?

Stouty
09-05-2008, 18:02
Unfortuneately that's 10 points too little two buy regeneration for the GUO. And I will also get more vurnable to warmachines if I don't have a fast and mobile unit like the furies so I don't think it's worth the sacrafice. Do you guys?

Nope! To my mind fast mobile units are required to make a list like this work. A similar points denial was made a while back by this guy (http://www.thebainphalanx.com/) focussing on a unit of 70 stubborn, fear causing, 5+ ward saved eternal guard. For the points he spend on wild riders he could have very easily bought himself a treeman. However, fast units are required in such a list to march block and war machine hunt- no unit is able to stand up to the entire of a 2250pts army on its own.

Colonel Simon
10-05-2008, 09:21
Nope! To my mind fast mobile units are required to make a list like this work. A similar points denial was made a while back by this guy (http://www.thebainphalanx.com/) focussing on a unit of 70 stubborn, fear causing, 5+ ward saved eternal guard. For the points he spend on wild riders he could have very easily bought himself a treeman. However, fast units are required in such a list to march block and war machine hunt- no unit is able to stand up to the entire of a 2250pts army on its own.

Interesting, thank you for you reply.

I am leaning towards building this list:

Heroes:
Herald of Nurgle
-lvl 1 wizard
-Palanquin
215p
*Joins Plaguebearers

Core:
12 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
-Musician
-Standard Bearer
-Plagueridden
174p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Plaguebearers of Nurgle
120p

10 Chaos Furies
120p

Rare:
15 Beast of Nurgle
1500p

-2249p

But I think that I am going to change the plagueridden or one PB for Slime Trail on the Herald.
The big question for me is if two smaller units (about 5-6) of furies or one big unit is the way to go. What do you think?

LooseMoose
10-05-2008, 09:45
Yeah your Furies would be better split. Whilst I think its brave for attempting a unit like that and I can see the obvious on-board psychological effects of it, its going to be a victim of its own size. You're either going to run it with a frontage that make it hard to manouver, and when it does get in combat only three or so models will be hitting. If you run it narrow you're opening youreself upto far too many flanks. If you really intend to run this you need a Herald with Slime Trail in them.

Edit: Sorry didn't realise that, don't have my book yet.

Colonel Simon
10-05-2008, 09:56
Yeah your Furies would be better split. Whilst I think its brave for attempting a unit like that and I can see the obvious on-board psychological effects of it, its going to be a victim of its own size. You're either going to run it with a frontage that make it hard to manouver, and when it does get in combat only three or so models will be hitting. If you run it narrow you're opening youreself upto far too many flanks. If you really intend to run this you need a Herald with Slime Trail in them.

You know what's good, the Beasts already has the slime trail rule so there is no need for a Herald. Using a Herald to join that unit would not be good at all as that brings down their movement of 6 to 4.

soulcrusher
10-05-2008, 09:59
nice army although i would like to see how its deals against my gunlines or detachments :evilgrin:

Chaos Mortal
10-05-2008, 18:43
it sounds really interesting, will you be playing any games with it soon?

Colonel Simon
10-05-2008, 20:00
it sounds really interesting, will you be playing any games with it soon?

I wish I had the time to do it. But as I am studying to become an engineer all my time will have to go into school until the summer break I'm afriaid. This is also an army which I don't have any models for so I guess it will be a summer/autumn project to build the army.
But I will be back to tell you about my progress with the army and hopefully I will at least be able to play some proxy games during the summer.

Chaos Mortal
11-05-2008, 11:24
great and good luck in your exam =)maybe you should start a hobby blog

Colonel Simon
11-05-2008, 18:23
great and good luck in your exam =)maybe you should start a hobby blog

Thank you :) Well, I can't promise something as I have some Imperial Guard to paint for a 40k tournament this summer but keep an eye open and maybe I will start a project log.

IronBrother
11-05-2008, 20:34
This list would be fine against gunlines as the big unit has good toughness and two saves before even a single wound is caused.

I agree on splitting up the furies into two groups, they can go after two different war machines that way.

Run that big thing 5x3 and take advantage of your rank/s. I may try to put this together and try it out a couple of times (or proxy - I hate proxy models, but a necessary evil when trying something like this). Good luck.

Colonel Simon
12-05-2008, 07:28
This list would be fine against gunlines as the big unit has good toughness and two saves before even a single wound is caused.

I agree on splitting up the furies into two groups, they can go after two different war machines that way.

Run that big thing 5x3 and take advantage of your rank/s. I may try to put this together and try it out a couple of times (or proxy - I hate proxy models, but a necessary evil when trying something like this). Good luck.

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad I have inspired you to try it out. It would be nice to hear how it works out for you. :)