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Malakian
08-05-2008, 18:24
THE ULTIMATE GHOULKIN TORPEDO OF DOOM!

-Characters-
Vampire lord: Ghoulkin, Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred, Walach's Bloody Hauberk [325]
Vampire: Flying horror, Avatar of death [150]
Vampire: Flying horror, Avatar of death, Scabskrath [180]
Vampire: Flying horror, Avatar of death, 2xDispel Scroll [200]

-Core-
Crypt ghouls (20) [160]
Zombie Horde (20) [80]
Zombie Horde (20) [80]
Dire Wolves (6) [48]
Dire Wolves (6) [48]

-Special-
Black Knights (10): Musician, Standard Bearer, War Banner [289]
Black Knights (9): Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of the Dead Legion [265]

-Rare-
DoW cannon [85]
DoW cannon [85]
= [1995]/2000

Malorian
08-05-2008, 18:28
I'd combine the knights into two larger units.

Isn't it really risky flying all your vampires up? Have you tried it already?

Demon-Face
08-05-2008, 18:41
I like the list except for maybe the flying vamps. A few dire wolves would look good in this list.

maybe add
5 dire wolves 40
3-5 fell bats 60
1 black knight to each unit/another DW unit.

and take away:
1 away one of the BK units.


from the looks of the list although magic weak against the right units you could do some serious damage.

Malakian
08-05-2008, 19:27
I'd combine the knights into two larger units.

Isn't it really risky flying all your vampires up? Have you tried it already?
Thanks! I didn't think about that. This way they can take more dmg from turn 1 shooting.

I think you know how the army works. All vampires go in Ghoul units. Before start of the game they march 8" and on turn 1 my vampires charge out from the units. They can split up to take down vulnerable units like spell casters, ranged infantry, cavalry, warmachines. Or they can make a combo charge against infantry melee units. On turn 2 my Knights arrive to support the vampires. But it all depends on my opponent.


I like the list except for maybe the flying vamps.

:D.. Without the flying vamps the list wont work as it is ment to work.


maybe add
5 dire wolves 40
3-5 fell bats 60

I feel I dont have any use for them, since I dont need to worry about shooting since my vampires will take care of all viable shooters. Fell bats and direwolves only give extra victorypoints for my opponent.

Andrew Luke
08-05-2008, 19:32
I feel like if you go up against a balanced, big block army with high static combat res you are also gonna have a lot of dead vampires on turn two... I only see this working in a tourney with sealed lists, cuz lets be honest it is just a gimmick.

Malorian
08-05-2008, 19:43
That's what I'm worried about too. Sure they can take out weak units, but with t4 and a 5+ save I wouldn't even want to charge them into archers.

There's also the worry that sure you run in and kill the unit (or they just flee and leave you stranded), but then on their turn your a sitting duck to magic and shooting.

I understand how it's suppose to work, but I'd rather just run it with 1 suicide vampire that also causes terror, so he can cause panic while the rest of your army (and the safe general) moves in for the kill.

Malakian
08-05-2008, 19:46
I feel like if you go up against a balanced, big block army with high static combat res you are also gonna have a lot of dead vampires on turn two... I only see this working in a tourney with sealed lists, cuz lets be honest it is just a gimmick.

If I play against big blocks I need to get more units into combat. So it means turn 2 charge with support of black knights. Block armies arnt really a problem.

This isnt a no brainer army which overkills everything. You need to think how you play. What I see is that this list can do massive dmg when played right.


That's what I'm worried about too. Sure they can take out weak units, but with t4 and a 5+ save I wouldn't even want to charge them into archers.

There's also the worry that sure you run in and kill the unit (or they just flee and leave you stranded), but then on their turn your a sitting duck to magic and shooting.

I understand how it's suppose to work, but I'd rather just run it with 1 suicide vampire that also causes terror, so he can cause panic while the rest of your army (and the safe general) moves in for the kill.
If they have t4 archers it means they have warmachines. And in this case the warmachines are my main target becouse they can hurt my knights.

I dont have to take the first turn charge. Its just about how you play the list. And I like the turbo boost feel of this army. Thats why I call it torpedo.

Malorian
08-05-2008, 19:54
Well I'd say go for it, but make sure you make a battle report. If might convince me that one of my Lahmian vampires need to grow wings ; )

Andrew Luke
08-05-2008, 19:58
Yeah, I'm with Malorian, it's a great threat but I feel like one Vamp that causes terror (Or ride a terror causing mount... >)) is more than enough to scare for the first turn charge and then hunt down war machines. I feel like you play a lot of gunlines, and if so, I'm sorry for you...

Malakian
08-05-2008, 20:05
OK well we could tone it down a bit.. Whats your suggestion?

Malorian
08-05-2008, 20:09
Just keep the lord at bay. The rest can go out and be crazy, but the general needs to be safe.

Malakian
08-05-2008, 21:57
Do you think he needs he's gear changed or keep him as he is?

Malorian
08-05-2008, 21:59
Just change flying horror to something else.

Spirit
08-05-2008, 23:03
Take the banner of the dead legion on one of your knight units. 25 points and you get us 32 knights, which means your typical ranked unit only wins by 2 combat res, not 4. Makes a HUGE difference and means you can charge in the front and still win (and auto break) quite easily.

Sarael
09-05-2008, 05:45
I use a similar list, but I exchange the BKs and Vargs for 2 units of KoBK and some felbat screens. I just like the harder hitting nature of KoBKs.

Anyway, you won't want your general w/o a ward save flying into combat at all: you'll want him parked in a unit. If you want to engage in combat with him, FH+Ward or WBH are necessary. Anything less leaves him too vulnerable to an enemy character, and when he goes so does most of the rest of your army.

If you're just using the ghouls as a slingshot, then you only need one unit of them. You could save 80 points by turning 2 ghoul units into zombies instead. Then you could buy 10 more ghouls for your one unit, and have 4 combat effective units. If you intend to use the ghouls in combat, then increase their numbers, as you don't have a vamp w/ Summon Ghouls to improve their static CR.

Drop a BK from each unit for ML3 on your Count. It's worth it for the dispel die alone.

Malakian
09-05-2008, 06:30
If you're just using the ghouls as a slingshot, then you only need one unit of them. You could save 80 points by turning 2 ghoul units into zombies instead. Then you could buy 10 more ghouls for your one unit, and have 4 combat effective units. If you intend to use the ghouls in combat, then increase their numbers, as you don't have a vamp w/ Summon Ghouls to improve their static CR.

Drop a BK from each unit for ML3 on your Count. It's worth it for the dispel die alone.
With only 1 unit of ghouls I would show my main attacks target really early at the deployment. 3 Ghoul units is more verstaile. And Its not too hard to consentrate all fire into 1 unit of ghouls and blow all the vampires out.

Im not familiar with the term ML3. Whats that?


OK check out the list now. I made imo effective changes. This makes the list more balanced and actually makes it even more effective.

Warmachines go down on first turn + terror tests on turn1 lol. 2nd turn theres 24 Black knights ready to kick some a*ss.

Seems like we are close to the optimal armylist?

Spirit
09-05-2008, 11:36
I would imagine he means magic level, seeing as lvl 3 gives you an extra dispell dice.

And i still stick by the banner of the dead legion on the knights, its cheaper than the other banners and gives you the same bonus (effectively +2 combat resolution, whereas +1 to hit only effects 1 in 6 dice.) and you auto break units.

Conotor
09-05-2008, 11:41
Does your opponent know the vamps can fly? I can never tell what you are supposed to reveal. If he does know it, then you strat will be pretty ovious after deployment. Otherwise it could work.

Malakian
09-05-2008, 19:09
I made some more tweaking.. And took the banner spirit adviced.

Malakian
10-05-2008, 08:36
If you're just using the ghouls as a slingshot, then you only need one unit...
Ok did it.

I made even more tweaking and now it seems we are getting closer to the ulimate minimaxed list. Any opinions?

Spirit
10-05-2008, 18:22
Im really against the dow cannons. A varghulf instead of them.

I just dont see it in a vamp army. Just a personal opinion though

Malakian
10-05-2008, 19:58
Depends on tournament. If it allows dow cannons I will use them since its cheese over everything else. WAAC!

Sarael
10-05-2008, 22:49
Ah, the good ol' cannon in a turn one charge list... Try it out, and once you realize what its problem is, go with a Varg or a trio of wraiths instead.

BTW, if you're so worried about ranged fire in a first turn charge list, then you'd be better off using more summoning power, or even Incorporeal on your Count.

Spirit
11-05-2008, 11:26
Yea what do you have to protect the cannons?

A dragon will hide behind a forest in turn one, and his fast cavelry will bin the cannons.

I would say a varghulf would be better for WAAC.