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View Full Version : Couple of O&G questions



Helbracht
10-05-2008, 03:53
So I'm picking my O&G army back up (due to my disdain for the new HoC list), and I have a few questions for those more knowledgeable then I:

1) Is it worth it to put a Warboss on a Wyvern in 7th ed?

2) I hear a lot of "Savage Boar Boyz are better than Boar Boyz". Why is this the case? All I can tell SBB have going for them is the 6+ Ward save and Frenzy. BB get an automatic 3+ armour save...and don't have Frenzy. I tend to not see Frenzy as a good thing...

3) Are 12 Black Orcs enough?

alextroy
10-05-2008, 05:13
1) If you want your boss lending his leadership to his troops, no. If you want a big, nasty flying monster then go for it.

2) Because SBB get 2 S4 Attacks and 2 S5 Attacks per model on the charge. Make them SBB Big 'Uns and it becomes 4 S5 Attacks per model on the charge.

3) Enough for what?

soulcrusher
10-05-2008, 07:18
1 . yes wyverns come in handy alot

2. it depends on what you want to do , if you want to go round annihalting other light cav and skirmishers i would stick with SBB

3. 12 should be enough although i would recomend maybe a few more or a black orc big boss

neXus6
10-05-2008, 07:24
Personally I wouldn't touch a whyvern ;) till 3000 if not 4000pts. You need your General in with the troops letting them benefit from his Leadership, both directly, and simply his combat power boosting whatever unit he is with. When you have 2+ Lord choices then this opens up the option of the Wyvern while still keeping the general with the troops. In which case a Savage Orc Warboss with some magic weapons is probably the best rider...everyone likes giving big monsters +1 attack cause the rider is frenzied. :evilgrin:

Savage Orc Boar Boyz should always be made into Big Unz, while Normal Orc Boar Boyz should just be left as it, field larger units of Normal ones if you want and use them like any other heavy(ish) cav, use small unit(s) of Savage Big Unz as a really hard hitting support unit. Both have their place, and both have different uses.

Personally I don't think 12 would be enough, at less than 2000 you probably want other things at 2000+ they will probably draw a lot of fire and you still want a combat effective unit left at the end. For what you get they are a very affordable unit so I'd suggest 20+ Black Orcs. They don't need a character in them, just have a nice big unit and let them look after themselves while the Big Bosses help out the weedier Orcs. :D

Urgat
10-05-2008, 08:39
1) If you like it, yes. That thing about the general Ld is way overhyped. We're not in 5th edition, you won't get army-wide panic tests if he die; you can easily avoid snowball panic tests now (especially with the size matters rule, I can't even remember the last time I had to take a panic test for anything other than the 25% casualty thing for shooting, or magic). Break tests? Well, in all cases, your general cannot be everywhere, even when on foot, so that's a non issue. Second, unless you've gone warmachine hunting, there are odds you're using your general to pull combined charges with the wyvern, so he's were the fights matter, so you have it. And if for some reason he's still flying around (say the wyvern just swallowed hellstorm servants), well she's flying 20" around, she can bring that Ld where you want it to be.
But really, my current general is a goblin BIG boss (so Ld7). Which means that all my break tests are taken on a maximum of 6", regardless of the general being around (and when I lose a fight with my gobs, I rarely lose by just 1 lol). Doesn't make me lose any more battles than my opponents.
That being said, whyverns tend to being shot to death rather easily, they ain't dragons, they're rather fragile, and in the priority list, they WILL take precedence over blorcs, giants, charriots as target of opportunity for anything that has ranged attacks.
But at least it gives you the rare opportunity for a greenskin player to pop terror tests here and there (the other alternative is the giant, which obviously doesn't fly and therefore only pops terror tests here, but not there).

2) I second the big'un comment above, then I would sum it up with 4 S5 attacks on charge per model, but I'll expand: the 3+ save of the regular boars is bad. Empire marksmen, dwarfs shooting at them, and it turns into a 5+ save. Cannons shooting at them -> no save. It's only good against bows. Even then, if the guy in frontdedicates enough shots to that unit, he can easily kill 2. At that point, the savage boar boyz will ignore the panic test and keep going. When in hand to hand, if the cheer amount of attacks is not enough to win, you're toast anyway, saves or not. Same if you're charged, a boar that won't charge is useless.
Ah yeah, why invest in the big'uns? Because this is a brutish unit, which already costs a lot, so you may as well make sure it does what it's supposed to do. I usually take (wel, I rarely take them, but still) 7 of them, just to make sure a few get in melee. And you can totally overdo it and give them Nogg's Banner of Butchery. Tried it once, it's completly overkill, I think it was the only time I've ever wiped out a 20 strong unit clean on one charge (yay for them being deployed 6 wide, they took 5 more attacks lol). But that's a lot of points in one unit, really :p

3) Depends, really, but the moment your enemy has shooting, usually, no, it's not enough. Blorcs tend to attarct fire, just for being blorcs... 12 would be good to guard flanks, but, really, a similar unit of big'uns, or even regular boyz, will be about as efficient (unless you NEED the great weapons, of course), and will save you a special slot.

Avian
10-05-2008, 12:53
Note that with 13 Black Orcs (6+6+1), you need four dead models to cause Panic, whereas with 12 Black Orcs you just need three.

I tend to run either 13 or 18 (with shields, standard, musician and a magic banner) and both setups have been working okay.

Helbracht
10-05-2008, 16:30
Your O&G tactics are amazingly amazing Avian.

Braad
10-05-2008, 18:03
My point of view:

1 Well, yes, it can be nice to take a wyvern. Since I have one, I try to field him at least now and then. But the warboss on foot works better for me. Especially when there are trolls around or night gobbo's, the leadership boost is nice. Though I prefer trolls with a boss on boar in the unit.
However, if you do take a wyvern, its nice to get them to action fast. I played a few times very cautious, and then they just don't earn back the points. Since then, I just drop 'm on a soft spot and get hackin' with some huge choppa. Works best for me.

2 The good thing about SBB, as pointed out above, is indeed the high amount of high S hits. While the normal BB are only a very few points cheaper and don't have this. Okay, they can't be baited, but being baited means in my point of view that there is something close enough to kill. If you give them the WAAAGH-banner, baiting also get quite a bit more difficult.

3 No. Ofcourse it can do something, but black orcs are a powerfull unit that will easily attract enemy fire. I now have 2 units of 15 and they can do most tasks on them own, and I'm planning to increase them to 20, just for extra staying power.