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View Full Version : VC vs. Demons, help!!!



E-Dog
12-05-2008, 14:25
I've gotten beaten by demons three times now. The last time I took .....
20 skellies
20 skellies
20 ghouls

10 black knights
5 fell bats

5 blood knights

A lord tooled up for magic
A necro
Vamp
Wight King bsb (I dont remember exact magic items)
2000 pts.

Any ideas, I'm playing against demons again tonight. BTW this army is very new to me. Thanks

~E~

Andrew Luke
12-05-2008, 14:29
If he is telling you that Banner of Sundering makes IoN -2 to cast he is full of it. Just spam IoN on your blocks, because unlike you, when his guys crumble they can't come back ;)

Max zero
12-05-2008, 14:45
Might help to know what in his army, how he beats you, what tactics you use, etc.

theunwantedbeing
12-05-2008, 14:47
Presumably he just kills the blood knights, the black knights and your character's. And Ignores the rest.
Probably with something very hard.

Meaning you need to use your troops better to support your character's and knights to help prevent him from simply picking them off.

Here's an idea which is most likely totally alien to you.
Use more than the minimal core allowance in troops....split the black knights into 2 units and ditch the blood knights in favour of something else...like black knights.
Now get some dire wolves to support and ditch one of your chraracter's....the wight battle standard bearer will do.

Now you'll have far more troops with which to mount an attack and defend with, and also allow yourself not to get outflanked.

VC players all too often just take 4 character's and some expensive rare slots and then have very little left with which to make an army out of.

E-Dog
12-05-2008, 15:01
Might help to know what in his army, how he beats you, what tactics you use, etc.

It's been three different players three different armies.

@unwantedbeing

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I was actually going to try the opposite, more nasties less core. My skellies have'nt killed a demon yet, I geuss more support in the form of Black Knights should help.

Minion
12-05-2008, 15:09
try dropping skellies and spam ghouls,or spam more skeletons,try instead to use characters to help your weaker units cover their weaknesses or boost their skills,drop necro or mount him on a cart.BSB should be a vamp.Try using a wight king with Great weapon and flayed hauberk,add a banshee :) she can scream to anything even em damn daemons and can easily manuvre around them.

Kerill
12-05-2008, 15:13
More details on their lists and how they were playing would definitely help, I play Tzeentch Daemons but am happy to offer suggestions.

Malorian
12-05-2008, 16:05
I don't know what units you are up against but if you face nurgle a lot and they have regeneration there's a nice 10 point banner that makes your attacks flaming ; )

Andrew Luke
12-05-2008, 16:16
Deamons are nasty, but their armies are always so small. I'd add to my comments that you really need to bulk up your units A LOT. Also look for walking death and other ways to really bump up the CR. Helm of command is a must. Its gorgeous to watch bloodletters whiff their attacks against zombies!!

Peril
12-05-2008, 16:25
As an earlier poster said, the Icon of Sundering does not hurt IoN, as that spell is not a part of a Lore (it is just a spell Vamps know).

Regen and Ethereal will not help you much, so I would steer away from this.

If you are facing Bloodletters, get some Strike First on something, since they are only T3. If facing Plaguebearers, use the banner that makes you have Flaming attacks. If facing Demonettes, stick them with your heavy infantry and strong static combat resolution. Against Tzeentch, bring the Balefire Corpse carts and pray.

E-Dog
12-05-2008, 18:38
More details on their lists and how they were playing would definitely help, I play Tzeentch Daemons but am happy to offer suggestions.

Tonight my opponent will probably bring two big units of plague bearers (15-20), Great Unclean One, 4 flamers, 2 beast o' nurgle, 5 or 6 seekers of slaanesh, Blue scribes, and Epidimius.

Fast stuff on the flanks, and the rest down my throat.



I don't know what units you are up against but if you face nurgle a lot and they have regeneration there's a nice 10 point banner that makes your attacks flaming ; )


:p Yea I used that before, probably try it again.


Everyone else Thanks, keep the ideas coming!

DrDogmeat
12-05-2008, 18:54
Your list looks very good. I've been trying to perfect mine for a while and it looks quite like yours. Though i use 3 units of 20 ghouls, ghouls will be better against your average rank and file daemon apart from blood letters. Maybe a combat lord, i only seem to get my points back unless i use red fury and some other nasy weapon, whether dread lance or blood drinker. I would drop the wight unless you're using him in the black knights with banner of the barrows. Black knights don't have that much killing power they need a character, which is probably your wight?

Spirit
12-05-2008, 22:37
If he is taking a great unclean one, try a frostblade, flying, beguile and hatred. Combine charge with your knight bsb to stop your vamp crumbling. (or just put him in the horses with dreadknight.

Watch as he cries when his 600 point lord dies turn 2.

If he is used to a magic vampire this will screw him.

him_15
12-05-2008, 23:24
I would say Outnumber the Demons whether possible, skellies and ghouls don't stand a chance against any core demons if not outnumber them, don't bother with ethereal creature as every demons can hurt them...after all..I think it really depend on which demons you are facing...

sulla
12-05-2008, 23:28
I would say Outnumber the Demons whether possible, skellies and ghouls don't stand a chance against any core demons if not outnumber them, don't bother with ethereal creature as every demons can hurt them...after all..I think it really depend on which demons you are facing...

Don't forget those ghouls can be ASF and ws6 or 7 if the vampire player is good.

][nquist0r
12-05-2008, 23:36
The unstoppable regenerating graveguard of doom. Get 24 graveguard with great weapons, and put the wightking in there as a battle standard. Make the battlestandard is the uber gay regenerating one. Use this as your anvil and ram it right down his throat. A lil Van Hels action and they will kill A LOT of daemons. 2 varghouls woul be pretty sweet too.

Emeraldw
12-05-2008, 23:37
Give us more about what that daemon guy is doing to kill you. Your Blood Knights would make quick work of pretty much any greater daemon if they get the charge.

Consider Grave Guard and possibly another vampire or necro for more magic.

minionboy
12-05-2008, 23:42
If he is taking a great unclean one, try a frostblade, flying, beguile and hatred. Combine charge with your knight bsb to stop your vamp crumbling. (or just put him in the horses with dreadknight.

Watch as he cries when his 600 point lord dies turn 2.

If he is used to a magic vampire this will screw him.

This is why I like you. Or is it why I hate you?

RobG
13-05-2008, 01:27
Be ready to dispel his casts on the GUO because anyone that sees a flying vamp in the army will know what's coming. If he's using the standard GUO kit then he will always strike first and will be reducing the stats of anyone in base contact to 1's (remember he can cast this spell on his first turn regardless of anyone being in comabt and when you charge him you will be on 1's).

lokigod
13-05-2008, 03:13
Be ready to dispel his casts on the GUO because anyone that sees a flying vamp in the army will know what's coming. If he's using the standard GUO kit then he will always strike first and will be reducing the stats of anyone in base contact to 1's (remember he can cast this spell on his first turn regardless of anyone being in comabt and when you charge him you will be on 1's).


Also remember most people run him with trappings thats t6 +4as,+5 ward,and a +4 regen.... Also he will have vapors if he is smart so you strike last and he has 4 ws4 str 8 attacks since he has flail in his profile :) got love gw typo's!


I have played vampire counts twice with the new daemons book and both times have been masacres for me :) They just could not raise enough to keep up..... Also there whole psychology fear causing thing is down the tubes!

Your Mum Rang
13-05-2008, 09:46
What sorta army you using Loki?

Kalist
13-05-2008, 12:07
I'm not sure if you're doing this already but two things I find that really help my VC army are 1: Abuse the hell out of the vampire power that lets you raise core units above starting size - on your first turn you could double the size of your skeleton and ghoul blocks (or try to anyway), and 2: Use raise dead to put up a line of zombies and angle them so that when he over-runs, he's running into the middle of nowhere or into range of your blood knights (preferably set up for a flank charge). Sure he gets 50 points for mowing down the zombies, but this maneouver can save your bacon bigtime if used correctly (he might let the first one slide but after that he'll focus on dispelling it - leaving you unmolested to raise more troops).

The Varghulf is good for running circles around enemies by staying close to them but just outside their charge arc. Remember that he's cheap (in a 2k game) so it's worth it if he can keep an expensive enemy unit chasing him out in the middle of nowhere for a couple of turns.

Your list would be awesome if you beef up those skeletons to units of 30 (by raising more of them first turn of course). That should give you enough static CR to tie down any unit attacking you long enough for your cavalry to hit them where it hurts (hopefuly).

If you could find a way to squeeze in 20 grave guard that would give your army a lot more punch. Those guys are great for taking charges and they can hold their own against many daemons.

Good luck, fellow deadie.

heinrichvoncarstein
13-05-2008, 15:56
I wouldn't tool up your characters for magic. You don't need any more troops do you!? Skellies in units of 20 is enough if you have banner of the dead legion. imo, i would tool tool all my characters up for combat except 1(necro in you case) and i would take Konrad instead of the wight king bsb to take out those greater daemon.