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stampy
13-05-2008, 01:43
Hi All

I really wanted to do a tzeentch army but with no new models and so all tzeentch units being metal i really can't afford it; especially with there being rumours of a second wave of daemon models which could see plastic models for tzeentch being released. So, decided for khorne as unlike soo many players i beleive that mono god armies can actually be very competitive. Tempted to make this my army for the warhammer GT this year, please take a look and let me now what you think:

Bloodthirster with Obsidian Armour, Firestorm Blade and Immoral Fury 550pts

Skulltaker on Juggernaut 200pts

Khorne Herald on Juggernaught, with Armour of Khorne, Battle Standard, Great Standard of Sundering 240pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

8 Chaos Furies 96pts

8 Choas Furies 96pts

5 Fleshhounds 175pts

2 Bloodcrushers 140pts

2 Bloodcrushers 140pts

Total pts cost of 1997pts. So, i obviously have no magic, and so will be relying on the Banner of Sundering (-2 to cast on one lore) to limit the number of spells successfully cast and then my magic resistance combined with 2 dispell dice to stop the most crucial spells. Army is obviously a speedy one, with a unit of furies to shield each unit of bloodcrushers (one unit will include skull taker, other the BSB Herald). I have the bloodfirster, fleshounds and my bloodcrushers for the damage dealing, whilst the 3 minimal units of Bloodletter go for table quarters or stay back to fight off stuff that comes behind my lines, eg miners, beastherds, gorgers.

So, what do you guys think of the list? Would you change any thing like daemonic gifts etc?

cheers for your input

regards

Stampy

DullMentalRacket
13-05-2008, 02:44
id like to see the furies taken down to 5 each and one of the bloodletter units boosted a bit.

Also, furies sort of make it non-khorne :)

stampy
13-05-2008, 02:51
id like to see the furies taken down to 5 each and one of the bloodletter units boosted a bit.


I wanted to do this, but being only 5 strong, not sure they spread wide enough to block line of sight to the bloodcrushers they are meant to protect.



Also, furies sort of make it non-khorne :)

They are undivided and will be painted similar to this:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99119915022&orignav=13

to make them as Khorne as possible.

stampy
13-05-2008, 10:51
This army is not perfect, why is no one saying anything?

neXus6
13-05-2008, 14:52
Chill mate, you posted it at 2am on Tuesday, the forum is mostly European so people ain't back from work/school yet. :)

Personally I don't like the army very much. You've got all the right units but in all the wrong sizes.
Units of 10 Letters will do very little, you need to get at least 2 of them up to about 16 strong so you have block units that can actually engage the enemy and hold while also giving rank bonus when multiple charging with your support units.

3 Bloodcrushers + Jugger Herald in 1 unit is probably one of my favorite units in the whole daemon book, I just don't think 2 units of 2 cut it, yes they are more maneuverable but they are very fragile and don't even cancel ranks without the character present and sometimes you'll need the characters elsewhere/a crusher might die.

A Daemon army simply cannot, in my opinion, afford to waste a single point, never mind 360pts on units whose sole purpose in your tactics is to "hide at the back and maybe contest table quarters."

Naturally if this is just your style of play go for it and test it out, but I don't think it will be as effective as it could be. :)

stampy
13-05-2008, 17:29
what do you suggest i loose in order to get 2 extra bloodcrushers then?

minionboy
13-05-2008, 18:07
Don't let anyone talk down on your Furies, they're not even Undivided (which implies they worship all gods), they're just made up of the stuff of chaos and will follow any general with will strong enough to dominate them.

The biggest problem I see with your list is 10-daemon units. They tend to get crushed really quickly. I'd personally drop the second unit of Blood Crushers (and their heralds), drop one unit of Furies, push the other down to 5, then add some more bloodletters to your units.

When it comes down to it, 5 Furies will do the same job that 8 will do without much difference and one unit of blood crushers with Skulltaker is all you need to squish some units. I personally opt for more Flesh Hounds, they're just too good for their cost.

stampy
13-05-2008, 18:38
minionboy, i'm really struggling. You say remove my battle standard bearer, but then i have nothing to stop/lessen opponents magic at all. Its just the core units i'm not happy about. I know unit of 10 is too small to take on other units, but at 12pts a model they are soo expensive and yet sooo fragile at only toughness 3. Is this list any better:

Bloodthirster with Obsidian Armour, Firestorm Blade and Immoral Fury 550pts

Skulltaker on Juggernaut 200pts

Khorne Herald on Juggernaught, with Armour of Khorne, Battle Standard, Great Standard of Sundering 240pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

10 Bloodletters 120pts

5 Chaos Furies 60pts

5 Choas Furies 60pts

5 Fleshhounds 175pts

2 Bloodcrushers 140pts

3 Bloodcrushers 210pts

Not a massive change, but each unit of furies will shield a unit of bloodcrushers still and the battle standard bearer will be in the unit of 3 bloodcrushers. Comes to 1995pts.

neXus6
13-05-2008, 20:43
Starting to look better. :D

I'd suggest dropping the unit of 2 blood crushers, and getting 10 more Bloodletters. Make 1 unit 16 strong another 14 strong and put Skulltaker in that one, then you've got a 10 strong support unit, that way you can hope to actually achieve something with your core choices rather than just contesting table quarters. :)

Spirit
13-05-2008, 20:45
Ok, so what are you going to do against an undead player with 14 powerdice? (and thats an average amount)

I presume thats the -2 to cast banner, and we can also presume that the tournament will let you say "invocation of nehek is a lore" but 6+ to cast is easy to do.

Im willing to bet you will see lots of undead and this list looks like it will be taken apart because you wont stop their magic at all. Varghulfs will rip apart your letters and you wont be able to kill or catch them thanks to vanhells and invocation.

I know this is only one armies perspective, but if its a tournament list, i see it struggling against undead.

stampy
13-05-2008, 20:57
With a pure khorne army there is nothing you can do to stop enemy magic. Only pure army able to stop magic would be Tzeentch which have no character models, are all metal, no commands with possibility of having plastics done later on

stampy
13-05-2008, 23:56
I really want a bloodthirster, but by not including one i can have the following:

Skulltaker on Juggernaut 200pts

Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut, Armour of Khorne, Battle Standard Bearer with Great Standard of Sundering 240pts

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer and Champion 204pts

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer with Champion 204pts

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer 192pts

5 Furies 60pts

5 Furies 60pts

6 Flesh Hounds 210pts

6 Flesh Hounds 210pts

3 Bloodcrushers 210pts

3 Bloodcrushers 210pts

2000pts. Its an ok list in my opinion but it doesn't have anything to deal with big nasties such as lords of dragon, greater daemons, steamtanks etc

minionboy
14-05-2008, 00:30
That's not a bad list, but the Blood Thirster is a lot of fun.

Pure Khorne has a hard time against a dedicated magic army no matter what, so you have to minimize your weakness. Your Blood Thirster can get the Collar of Khorne (MR3), Hounds are already MR3. Blood Crushers are fast, but not as fast as hounds and only MR1. Once you're in combat you're safe from Magic Missiles, but Khorne's 2 DD isn't going to do much against enemies with beneficial magic, only offensive. Send the big guy into the biggest enemy caster and hope you kill it (Axe of Khorne will help) ASAP.

If you use your thirster to handle any characters then that reduces the need for Skulltaker. I still say you can drop the second unit of crushers and second unit of furies in favor of more troops and/or more hounds.

minionboy
14-05-2008, 00:37
Here's my quick idea:

Blood Thirster: Axe of Khorne, Collar of Khorne, Obsidian Armor: 540

Herald: Juggernaut, Armor of Khorne, BSB with Great Standard of Sundering: 240

15 Blood Letters: Full Command: 204
15 Blood Letters: Full Command: 204
14 Blood Letters: Full Command: 192
5 Furies: 60

5 Flesh Hounds: 175
5 Flesh Hounds: 175

3 Blood Crushers: 210

stampy
14-05-2008, 00:59
Following your army idea, how about this:

Blood Thirster: Axe of Khorne, Immortal Fury, Obsidian Armor: 550

Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut, Armour of Khorne, Battle Standard Bearer with Great Standard of Sundering 240pts

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer 192

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer 192

15 Bloodletters with Standard Bearer 192

6 Furies 72pts

5 Flesh Hounds 175pts

5 Flesh Hounds 175pts

3 Bloodcrushers 210pts

minionboy
14-05-2008, 04:11
I'd try and stay with the collar of khorne on your Thirster since you're lacking in the anti-magic department. I'm also not sure if it's worth sacrificing your champions in favor of one more fury and one more blood letter. :/

stampy
14-05-2008, 04:13
I'd try and stay with the collar of khorne on your Thirster since you're lacking in the anti-magic department. I'm also not sure if it's worth sacrificing your champions in favor of one more fury and one more blood letter. :/

I don't have champions, just standard bearers :D

minionboy
14-05-2008, 06:00
I don't have champions, just standard bearers :D

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. From my list to yours, you dropped all your Champions to get 1 more Fury and 1 more Blood Letter, big mistake imo.

stampy
14-05-2008, 06:04
Yeah, that's what I was referring to. From my list to yours, you dropped all your Champions to get 1 more Fury and 1 more Blood Letter, big mistake imo.

your pts costs were wrong thats why, and i replaced collar of khorne with immortal fury

Spirit
14-05-2008, 14:38
I would agree with no champions, more often than not, they are a waste of points and just get allocated to death, they are still only t3 with 1 wound for double (?) the points.

minionboy
14-05-2008, 16:24
Eh, I dunno, the extra attack in the front without having to have more models is nice, plus that extra attack can potentially be an extra +1 to your combat res.

Oh, and I just double checked all my points with the book, they were all correct :P. Also, I'm still going to say you should get the Collar of Khorne on your BT. The difference between MR2 and MR3 is huge, especially combined with the battle standard. Immortal Fury is nice, but it wont save you from spells, which is the biggest problem you're going to run into.

Too bad heralds can't get the collar... :(

Spirit
14-05-2008, 16:30
I really think it comes to personal choice, but with so few models in the army, i would rather have 3 more cannon fodder letters to let them survive to combat.