PDA

View Full Version : Ogres vs. Skaven help



spartan116
13-05-2008, 22:30
I have a buddy who plays Ogres and he keeps getting beaten by Skaven. Could you guys throw me some pointers so I can help him out a bit? Any help would be appreciated.

Surgency
13-05-2008, 23:29
don't ogres cause fear? Just charge the base leadership 5 skaven, that should work :p

him_15
13-05-2008, 23:57
Skaven rat's gain extra leadership bonus for each rank, up to 3, so they are normally Ld 8, fear don't have much effect on them, after all, there are just too many rats that you can't cause them all to fear!
Ogre always struggle to win in CC by losing on CR, especially the number of skaven they are facing! Bull charge is as important as usual, but Skaven unit have M5 so it's hard to ensure you get the charge, and if you don't run them down in first combat turn, there's always other unit to flank you up and destroy you.

Ipeninrod
14-05-2008, 01:15
this sounds retarded but the large template of the scraplauncher does neat things to hordes.
maneaters earn there points provided they don't get shop to pieces.

Gnoblars slammed into slaves to see who out craps who.
Bulls with extra hand weapon instead of the usual Ironguts.

3 Magic items that rock against skaven. Thundermace. Brahmir Statue(Butcher + brain gobbler) . Daemon Killer scars.

Mercules
14-05-2008, 02:34
Skaven live and die in CC by their Ranks. It not only gives them CR but it also gives them leadership bonus. Slam a US 5+ unit into their side and suddenly they can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Next thing you know you have won the combat and their Leadership test is a 6. The issue is getting there.

In order to get there take something to threaten them from across the board. Scraplauncher with it's huge template of Str 3 attacks slaughters Skaven providing you can judge range correctly and it doesn't scatter poorly.

Butchers also come in handy as there will often be a lot of Warp Lightning magic missiles aimed your way. If you can get Troll Guts on a unit it's MR(2) will make it a nice screen against the Warlocks. Remember, you have to cast your spells before you can use your casting dice on remains in play spells.

spartan116
14-05-2008, 15:13
Thanks for the replies everyone, keep em' coming. I learned the hard way with my high elves that fighting head on with skaven is useless. So now i just shoot the crap out of them and magic them to death :D

3lwap0
14-05-2008, 17:20
There's not much different from a Skaven army, than say any other massed rank infantry army (O&G's, VC, etc) . Ogre's will lose every time to Skaven infantry off of CR alone, provided you can't do tons of wounds on your charge.

The trick is to get in flank charges, which is no easy feat given how close some infantry blocks can be to each other. You have to negate their rank bonus, plain and simple. Provided you can deny the rank bonus, your wounds you inflict will tip things over usually, and you can chase that unit down. The MSU tactic works well for this, which is why it's used so frequently.

So you need to disrupt his line of advancing infantry IMHO. You can do this by either using Gorgers on a flank charge (which is iffy, they may not roll to come on), you can use gnoblars and bait a charge (be sure and angle the gnoblars so they align favorable to you), you can also bombard them with a scraplauncher, and then get in a good charge with it. Also, and this is iffy for versus a Skaven list, but you can use either bulls or gnoblars as bait to draw out a failed charge, and then counter charge. I say this is 'iffy', since your foe will likely realize that a ogre unit that could charge, and didn't, is certainly baiting the unit.

Two things that may be considered 'cheesy', but are certainly viable as well:

1) Take Skrag, and a nice compliment of Gorgers. Skrag thrives on massed infantry blocks, they just feed his abilities. The one thing you'll find out quick though, is that he can't win combat much - This is where the +1 Toughness and Stubborn gut magic can really help you (just hope your opponent doesn't dispel it).

2) Take a Brhamir statue, and a skullmantle for your Tyrant/Butcher unit. Then start dropping braingobblers, and force a -4 leadership test. Don't expect this to last too long, so make it count as best you can. Your butcher becomes a bullet magnet after that.

Mercules
14-05-2008, 18:40
That is a very good point. Skrag does well with a lot of easy to kill models(if you can get him into the combat to start with) and has something to back him up. The Gorgers coming in at odd edges of the board cause nightmares for Skaven disrupting their formations and causing fear in odd places.

A magic heavy Skrag list with a ton of Gorgers would make my friend cringe when he is playing his Skaven list.

Malorian
14-05-2008, 18:44
Could you post the usual list of the ogre and the skaven player.

Dragonknight31
14-05-2008, 18:54
Use the Secret Weapon...

Ogres have an item that lowers Skaven leadership by 3. Only works on Skaven and Chaos.

I forget the particulars on it, but that will win games for you.

That and Gorgers