PDA

View Full Version : 1,500 Point Vampire Count list in need of opinion for final 119 points.



FashaTheDog
14-05-2008, 03:02
Well I had planned to play my first game at 1,000 points against Tomb Kings but now I have gotten a dozen skeletal horses, that means I can do 1,500 points. The fact that I will also be off to a different store also means that the number of oppoenets drasticly increased as well. I have been playing with a few ideas in my head for the new list and have decided on the following but have two options from which to finish the army.

[200] Vampire General: Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Biting Blade, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead

[195] Vampire: Secptre de Noirot, Nightshroud, Master of the Black Arts

[125] Wight King: Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk

[252] Nightmare Legion - 23 Skeletons: Spears, Full Command w/ Banner of the Dead Legion

[244] 28 Skeletons: Full Command

[40] 5 Dire Wolves

[365] 10 Black Knights: Barding, Full Command w/ Banner of the Barrows

1,381 Points

To avoid confusion the Vampire General will henceforth be refered to as the General, while the other Vampire will simply be refered to as such. The Nightmare Legion will also be a seperate reference from 'Skeletons' (note captialization).

Now I before I ask what to do with the remaining 119 points, my plan is to deploy the General and Wight together in the Nightmare Legion with the Vampire in the Skeletons. The Dire Wolves and Black Guard will run on one flank of the two starting units, which will remain together adding risen zombie hordes to the block as they advance. I may send the wolves on a warmachine hunt if the opportunity presents itself otherwise they will hang back for a flank charge later. I will have the General start off the magic phases either increasing the size of the Skeletons and/or Nightmare Legion depending upon the situation or if he gets Wind of Death or Summon Undead Horde, casting that to draw out dispels. If the dispel attempts fail then I get a bonus of raising up lots of zombies or if luck is with me, a large spirit host. Then I will raise a unit of zombies with the Vampire who will follow up and bolster it with an Invocation of Nehek so that starting zombie unit will be 15 to 22 strong if not dispelled.

Now I am debating between either dropping two Black Guard and adding a Varghulf or adding five Fell bats and adding one more skeleton and Banner of Hellfire to the Skeletons. I like the Varghulf as a second fast and hard unit but the idea of the Fell Bats and ten strong Black Guard is also rather appealing. Since I may end up facing nearly any army, I am not too sure of which I like better, any suggestions for either option?

stampy
14-05-2008, 03:09
Split the black knights into 2 units of 5 with no command. Use pts saved from command to get the varghulf if thats enough. If not drop some skeletons till you have required pts for varghulf

FashaTheDog
14-05-2008, 03:19
Drop the command and two eight point skeletons to take the Varghulf and have two units of Black Guard? I kind of like that idea but I was thinking of having a two rank powerhouse unit that would slam into the flank of a unit tied up against my infantry tar pits. Now I need to add your suggestion as option three.

jimbob
14-05-2008, 03:52
I'd honestly say take the fell bats. Survivable for longer, and won't be a big 'shoot-at-me' target. Much more maneuverable and underestimated. In my opinion.

If it was me doing the choosing though, I'd choose a second unit of 5 wolves, a unit of 20 zombie and drop a couple of skellies. Extra tar pit unit for those really annoying units, and it means you have a extra unit of fast cavalry to back up your knights or go hunting by themselves.

Kalist
14-05-2008, 08:36
The Varghulf is worth his weight in gold if you get lucky with the dice. Not to mention the benefit of running him into a huge group of enemy units and watching terror reign destruction. Instead of making room for him by droping black knights, why don't you drop some skeletons from your starting units? To compensate for this and to bring them back fast I'd definately swap master of the black arts on your second vampire for dark acolyte and Lord of the Dead.

It really pays to start with small core units and allocate their points to stronger units. Just dedicate 100% of your magic phase for your first turn or two into beefing up your skeleton units.

Running the Varghulf with your black knights and dire wolves would also give them the ability to march. Talk about a quick moving flanking squad!

*PS when thinking about dropping command from units, compare the sacrifice of losing a champion to accept/throw out a challenge and the +1 cr from a banner to the cost of 1 ordinary skeleton. You can always raise regular skeletons once the game commences, but there's no way to bring in commands :(

FashaTheDog
14-05-2008, 20:40
Apart from some 20 or so zombies, which I need for raising, the list has every model I will be able to lay my hands on in time for the game. As far as ideas go, I would have to say that so far Kalist has offered the best solution to my problem. The list I am looking at now will be:

[200] Vampire General: Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Biting Blade, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead

[195] Vampire: Secptre de Noirot, Nightshroud, Master of the Black Arts

[125] Wight King: Tomb Blade, Flayed Hauberk

[252] Nightmare Legion - 23 Skeletons: Spears, Full Command w/ Banner of the Dead Legion

[188] 21 Skeletons: Full Command

[40] 5 Dire Wolves

[365] 10 Black Knights: Barding, Full Command w/ Banner of the Barrows

[175] Varghulf

Now I can only wonder if splitting the Black Knights into two units would be better than one extra strong unit. They both have advantages and disadvantages; the one large unit being great for a devastating flank charge even after taking shooting casualties while the two smaller units can only ever lose up to five, so exess casulaties cannot spill over as well as allowing for two seperate units to roam giving great flexibility. On the other hand, one large unit can almost certainly face heavy shooting (if present) increasing the likelyhood of being torn apart faster as well as only being able to be in one place while the smaller units will see that far lighter shooting will reduce their effectiveness faster as well as no rank bonus. In the end it probably is more a case of six of one or a half dozen of the other with my own experience determining which I will use regularly, but still, I cannot help but be curious as to which to try first.

Spirit
14-05-2008, 21:24
The wight king gets killing blow and a 3+ save (with 3 wounds and T5!) without spending any points.

All you have done is lose killing blow, and given him +1 save, for 50 points. Seems like a raw deal to me, as 3 ws4 attacks wont kill more than 2 rank and file, you dont get alot of return for it.

If you REALLY want to keep the hauberk, drop the sword and give him an additional hand weapon (4 attacks with killing blow which you "can" make WS6 is deadly) or even a great weapon, that way he will kill more and let the unit win combats.

I would give him the hand of dust instead, no one expects a combat character to have 2d6 S5 hits and they wont usually save dice for it, especially if you make it obvious you dont have the rod of flaming death or the book of arkhan

Also with that many knights and a combat wight lord, i would take the helm of command over the sceptre.

FashaTheDog
14-05-2008, 21:53
The Sceptre is important as I plan to spawn a nice large zombie tar pit. As for the Wight, I was looking more at reducing the rate of my loses by allowing those slain by the Wight to hop over to my side (albeit as a skeleton). Those 25 points gained there can either go into skeletons or perhaps with a pair of skeletons being dropped, a trio of Fell Bats being added in. I'll keep the flayed Haubrek as the increased save will make me feel better handing off some of those less desirable challenges to the Wight who will play the role of the General's bodyguard.

Malorian
14-05-2008, 21:56
If you want him to have a better save just out him on a steed. It's a lot cheaper and then you have the extra movement if you ever need. (Not to mention the horse attack)

Spirit
15-05-2008, 00:42
Or give him the gem of blood, 3 wounds and he rebounds on a 2+, with toughness 5. Your wight lord is the undesirable challenge for the enemy, not the other way round. And if you plan on getting near challenges, why would you want to lose killing blow?!

But i also agree with the horse.

Edit: Oh yes, put a battle standard bearer in, no magic banner, 25 points and you can have all your equipment AND vamp powers (if its on a vamp..) for a warbanner that minimizes all losses within 12", as soon as you lose combat with a knight unit it makes its points back, worth it in my opinion.

Kalist
15-05-2008, 06:54
I don't think 20 zombies is much of a tarpit. They usually get moped up by any half decent unit they are fighting. If you're limited in the size of your zombie units by models (like you, I only have 20 zombie models too) they are best used to raise in front of an enemy and place them at an angle so when the enemy charges and massacres them, the enemy overruns into a place of your choice.

Your two blocks of skeletons will be very nice tarpits. Either block could hold an enemy still long enough for you to hit it in the flank with your unit of black knights and your varghulf.

I would imagine a unit of 10 black knights would be ideal because, as you said, it offers them some protection vs shooting and is less likely to be entierly wiped out in one round of combat. Plus, if they get beat up really bad you can focus all your ION on one unit instead of spreading it between two.

FashaTheDog
15-05-2008, 16:32
True, the zombies are less a tar pit and more gum on a theatre floor, just enough to probably make you pause as you realize what you stepped in. If as you say, the foe tears through the 15 to 22 newly raised dead, then they should end up in an exposed position or if my enemy's charge here go anything like my 40K assaults, they'll be stuck against a zombie or two after all is said and done. Either way a properly placed army will then be set to exploit that, even it simply becomes a matter of charging one of my skeleton blocks in to deny charge bonuses and properly tie them in place.

As far as mounting anything, that is not an option availible to me as is the army standard. With only what I have made the army list from availible my choices are limited. I had missed the Dire Wolves so to balance the points I had to reduce the Flayed Hauberk to an additional hand weapon giving me this list:

[200] Vampire General: Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Biting Blade, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead

[195] Vampire: Secptre de Noirot, Nightshroud, Master of the Black Arts

[83] Wight King: Additional handweapon

[252] Nightmare Legion - 23 Skeletons: Spears, Full Command w/ Banner of the Dead Legion

[188] 21 Skeletons: Full Command

[40] 5 Dire Wolves

[365] 10 Black Knights: Barding, Full Command w/ Banner of the Barrows

[175] Varghulf

1,498 points

With seven power dice and four dispel dice, I wonder if I may need to consider boosting my magic in the future when I get more models. Perhaps replacing the Wight with a Vampire with Dark Acolyte so I get nine power dice and five dispel dice. And to go to 2,000 I can simply add in Count Manfred (475) or a Vampire Lord with Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Avatar of Death, an extra magic level, Crown of the Damned, and a Skull Staff (455) so I would have thirteen power dice and six dispel dice or if I changed the Wight to a Vampire, then fifteen power dice and seven dispel dice. Still what to get next is less a matter of importance now and just something to consider later.

FashaTheDog
15-05-2008, 16:53
Actually now that I look at it, swap Avatar of Death for Lord of the Dead and I will also need to get my hands on lots and lots of skeletons.